Smack Talk Thread

[Warpath]

Would you be happy if RG3 mirrored his career? If no, then I'd say he shouldn't be talked about in comparison with RG3. If yes, then you should be an Eagles fan cause you are happy with NFC titles.

No, RG3 is better than Cunningham and I expect more out of him. RG3 a much higher ceiling. Cunningham is merely an example of a mobile QB having a long career, and a successful one in the NFL.

 

[Warpath]

I think RG3 has more in common with Steve Young than Randall Cunningham.

 

[fordman84]

Bottom line is that people keep saying mobile QBs can't last or won't last in the NFL, and there are plenty of examples to the contrary. It's a myth.

I said they don't typically last or have success. There were three examples given. I said one wasn't successful, the other two aren't in the same ballpark as far as running plays where they called their own number.

So if there are plenty of examples, then I'd love to hear about em. First off, the zone read hasn't been run for very long so you will have a hard time finding many QB's in the NFL that have run it let alone succeeded at it. Second, RG3 could be a hell of a pocket passer if he could be taught to stay in the pocket because he has a crazy strong arm that most running QB's dont. But trying to force him to stay in the pocket with a Shanahan OL that isn't as dominant as a pocket QB needs...means RG3 will still end up running more than he should.

 

[fordman84]

No, RG3 is better than Cunningham and I expect more out of him. RG3 a much higher ceiling. Cunningham is merely an example of a mobile QB having a long career, and a successful one in the NFL.

no, it is an example of him having a long career. It was not successful. He won nothing, literally nothing.

 

[fordman84]

I think RG3 has more in common with Steve Young than Randall Cunningham.

Except that Young didn't run a "run first" offense or a zone read. His highest rushing total was like 500 yards in a season. He averaged roughly half the rush attempts per game.

 

[Warpath]

no, it is an example of him having a long career. It was not successful. He won nothing, literally nothing.

There are varying degrees of success. Cunningham had a good but not elite career. We also mentioned Steve Young, who was also mobile. Also was around a while and had greater success than Cunningham.

Nobody here is saying that Cunningham's career is the ceiling for what RG3 could do. Unless that's what YOU are saying. In which case, that's stupid.

 

[fordman84]

There are varying degrees of success. Cunningham had a good but not elite career. We also mentioned Steve Young, who was also mobile. Also was around a while and had greater success than Cunningham.

Nobody here is saying that Cunningham's career is the ceiling for what RG3 could do. Unless that's what YOU are saying. In which case, that's stupid.

never said that, I was asking you. You said it was a successful career and I proposed that if you think that, then would you be happy with RG3 replicating it. The answer is apparently no, so if it isn't good enough for you...then how do you still consider it "successful".


You guys can argue all you want, but the history of the league backs my original statement up. Enjoy RG3 while you can, because at this rate the numbers are against him having a long career.

 

[Warpath]

Except that Young didn't run a "run first" offense or a zone read. His highest rushing total was like 500 yards in a season. He averaged roughly half the rush attempts per game.

Run first offense will only help RG3. Zone read gives RG3 more time in the pocket than a traditional offense would. I'm not really sure what you're getting at anyway. I said he has more in common with Steve Young as a player. Similar skill set. Both are mobile, smart, and accurate passers. It's not like RG3 is one dimensional and can ONLY run the ball.

And Shanahan coached both. Yes, he runs read option 10 times a game but his base offense that the Redskins use now and that Kubiak runs in Houston has it's roots from Shanahan's time as offensive coordinator in San Francisco.

 

[fordman84]

Run first offense will only help RG3. Zone read gives RG3 more time in the pocket than a traditional offense would. I'm not really sure what you're getting at anyway. I said he has more in common with Steve Young as a player. Similar skill set. Both are mobile, smart, and accurate passers. It's not like RG3 is one dimensional and can ONLY run the ball.

And Shanahan coached both. Yes, he runs read option 10 times a game but his base offense that the Redskins use now and that Kubiak runs in Houston has it's roots from Shanahan's time as offensive coordinator in San Francisco.

what I'm getting at is that there isn't a lot of history of run n gun QB's like RG3 having long careers. I can't make that any clearer. You can try to justify your opinion that RG3 will be the one that changes all of that, that's fine. But until he does, my statement is still correct.

 

[Warpath]

never said that, I was asking you. You said it was a successful career and I proposed that if you think that, then would you be happy with RG3 replicating it. The answer is apparently no, so if it isn't good enough for you...then how do you still consider it "successful".


You guys can argue all you want, but the history of the league backs my original statement up. Enjoy RG3 while you can, because at this rate the numbers are against him having a long career.

Hell, since the league history shows it, give me 5 players with RG3's ability to both run and pass the ball who didn't have a long career in the NFL. We've given you plenty of examples that show the opposite. Some substance and facts to your argument would be nice.

There are varied degrees of success in the NFL. I simply said that Cunningham was more successful than Romo. That's a fact. I suspect RG3 will achieve more than either of them.

 

[Warpath]

what I'm getting at is that there isn't a lot of history of run n gun QB's like RG3 having long careers. I can't make that any clearer. You can try to justify your opinion that RG3 will be the one that changes all of that, that's fine. But until he does, my statement is still correct.

You certainly could make it clearer. By giving examples of players like RG3 who didn't last long in the NFL.

Your statement isn't correct. You're regurgitating bullshit without anything of substance to back it up.

 

[PDay8810]

lol at bovey jumping in and getting his head handed to him

 

[PDay8810]

Pday isn't the best dude to talk to when it comes to nailing down what a troll is.

hey chuckles....the topic was reptec and he was pure troll

Questions?

 

[Warpath]

lol at bovey jumping in and getting his head handed to him

You must be reading a different conversation, Cletus.

 

[FLSkinsfan]

what I'm getting at is that there isn't a lot of history of run n gun QB's like RG3 having long careers. I can't make that any clearer. You can try to justify your opinion that RG3 will be the one that changes all of that, that's fine. But until he does, my statement is still correct.

At this point I need to call BS.
1. Give me a QB and a team that did the run-n-gun with a QB with RG3's Running ability (Vick/Atlanta going on year 11 in the league)
2. In College you are either a pocket passer or and run first QB. 98% of the run first QB do not get drafted because they can not throw from the pocket.
3. Cunningham, Young and McNair all averaged 4.2-4.8 rushes per game played. If you consider Cunningham and running QB then Young is in that category. All played for over 13 years.
4. I would take Cunningham's career for RG3, for the simple fact that there is no teams now that are as good as back then. The NFC was stacked with great teams when he played. Dallas, Washington, Giants, San Francisco. It would be hard for even Tom Brady to win consistently against teams like that. The NFCE sent 2 teams to the playoffs all the time back then. If that happens today, you are looking at multiple NFC championship games.

You can deny these, but they are facts (4 is my opinion). We are in a whole new era of the NFL. For the first time we are seeing running QB's coming out of college that can pass the ball as well. The NFL will have to adjust, but these kids are getting better every year. Will RG3 run as much as he did last year? I would say no. Is he going to just become a pocket passer? NO. What the final outcome will be is yet to be determined. You hope it is for a short time, do to his play making your defense look like a college team, but if we get 10 to 13 years of this type of play (with a few less runs and more passing) then I will take it every day and 3 times on Sunday.

 

[fordman84]

Hell, since the league history shows it, give me 5 players with RG3's ability to both run and pass the ball who didn't have a long career in the NFL. We've given you plenty of examples that show the opposite. Some substance and facts to your argument would be nice.

There are varied degrees of success in the NFL. I simply said that Cunningham was more successful than Romo. That's a fact. I suspect RG3 will achieve more than either of them.

Air McNair
Vick
Dantzler
Kordell
Eric Crouch
I think you know Pat White
Frazier
Vince Young

Oops, thats more than 5. Feel free to delete any that you want.


And if you want to argue RG3 is better than romo, then thats a whole different argument and has nothing to do with Cunningham.

 

[fordman84]

You certainly could make it clearer. By giving examples of players like RG3 who didn't last long in the NFL.

Your statement isn't correct. You're regurgitating bullshit without anything of substance to back it up.

At this point I need to call BS.
1. Give me a QB and a team that did the run-n-gun with a QB with RG3's Running ability (Vick/Atlanta going on year 11 in the league)
2. In College you are either a pocket passer or and run first QB. 98% of the run first QB do not get drafted because they can not throw from the pocket.
3. Cunningham, Young and McNair all averaged 4.2-4.8 rushes per game played. If you consider Cunningham and running QB then Young is in that category. All played for over 13 years.
4. I would take Cunningham's career for RG3, for the simple fact that there is no teams now that are as good as back then. The NFC was stacked with great teams when he played. Dallas, Washington, Giants, San Francisco. It would be hard for even Tom Brady to win consistently against teams like that. The NFCE sent 2 teams to the playoffs all the time back then. If that happens today, you are looking at multiple NFC championship games.

You can deny these, but they are facts (4 is my opinion). We are in a whole new era of the NFL. For the first time we are seeing running QB's coming out of college that can pass the ball as well. The NFL will have to adjust, but these kids are getting better every year. Will RG3 run as much as he did last year? I would say no. Is he going to just become a pocket passer? NO. What the final outcome will be is yet to be determined. You hope it is for a short time, do to his play making your defense look like a college team, but if we get 10 to 13 years of this type of play (with a few less runs and more passing) then I will take it every day and 3 times on Sunday.

Air McNair
Vick
Dantzler
Kordell
Eric Crouch
I think you know Pat White
Frazier
Vince Young

Oops, thats more than 5. Feel free to delete any that you want.


And if you want to argue RG3 is better than romo, then thats a whole different argument and has nothing to do with Cunningham.

So I don't have to retype them all.


I assume that is enough evidence. Of course you can tell me they aren't as good of runners and I can give you stats to show you are wrong, but I don't have the time or care enough for that.

 

[fordman84]

Oh, I do love the nugget where FLSkins admits that he would be happy if the Skins never won a SB with RG3. Hey, as long as he makes the pro-bowl, right?

 

[Warpath]

If that's your evidence, you have the saddest and most pathetic argument I think I've ever seen.

There are a couple running QBs on that list that don't hold a candle to RG3 when it comes to passing the ball. Some of them are flat out talentless busts.

Two of them had long careers and one is still playing in the league.

What the hell does that list do to prove your idea that RG3 will be out of the league soon? And that we should enjoy him while he lasts?

Comical.

 

[Warpath]

The good news for you, is that Pday will cackle and think you've made a brilliant argument.