Shump & JR to Cleveland

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Shumpert ain't a one way player. He's not a great offensive star, but he can shoot, create when he has to, and defend. I think if he can stay healthy for Cleveland, he would be worth giving up waiters himself.

With all do respect, he is a career 39% shooter.

If he is not a 1-way player, he should be.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Sacre isn't too bad. He sure as hell isn't going to be any franchise changer. But he's an okay big who will come in, bang bodies, grab a few rebounds and hit an occasional shot (which the Cavs could use), but Shumpert is definitely more valuable.

As for Waiters, based on what I've read about him, I'd rather have Sacre.

Great point. Waiters, Kobe, and Swaggy all fighting for the ball if they play at the same time?

 

[DJ Fieri]

Shump's a good defender, but he's never produced consistently on the offensive end.

 

[DJ Fieri]

JR Smith is 0 for 5 with no assists in 18 minutes.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

In this new salary cap era it is not over-rated at all. You need to get with the times.

So many quality players will be available this Summer.

The Lakers, Celtics and Knicks might not get any of the top 3 * Love, Aldridge, M Gasol*.

But, everyone else will be in play.

Their chances increase dramatically considering they have room for 2 max salaries and will still have room to add quality role players.

Anyone who thinks adding an extra 12 million * 6.4 of Smith's contract and 6 mil cap hold for Shump* is not significant can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[wildturkey]

Wrong based on what?

So far, all your arguments are based simply on your personal opinion of what YOU think the Knicks could have/ should have done.

Explain to me how the Cavs getting Shump to eat Smith's deal is any different than the Lakers eating Lin's contract to get an extra 1st rounder from Houston.

Should Houston have held out for a better deal?

No.

Because Lin's contract is toxic and nobody would touch it without incentive.

Or....How's about the Lakers letting Pau walk for nothing?

I'm sure you are aware of why they did that...to have cap space for 2015...Just like the Knicks

This is not new.

Utah ate Richard Jeffersons contract for the Warriors for a 1st rounder for gosh sakes...

The only difference being the Cavs got a player * Shump* instead of a pick.

Standard business

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here but I'm not talking about what the Cavs got, I'm talking about what the Knicks could have done and didn't get. And its not just based on my opinion. They've turned down better offers. And the Lin trade has little if anything to do with this situation. Houston was desperate to make room to sign Chris Bosh so the Lakers fleeced them. This is a different scenario. You're too hung up on JR Smith to see how its botched asset management.

So many quality players will be available this Summer.

The Lakers, Celtics and Knicks might not get any of the top 3 * Love, Aldridge, M Gasol*.

But, everyone else will be in play.

Their chances increase dramatically considering they have room for 2 max salaries and will still have room to add quality role players.

Anyone who thinks adding an extra 12 million * 6.4 of Smith's contract and 6 mil cap hold for Shump* is not significant can't see the forest for the trees.

Now they have room for 2 maxes and role players? Where are you getting that? I haven't seen that listed anywhere from even the most generous writers grading the trade. And the cap hold isn't that big of a deal if the Knicks are hellbent on carving out space. If the Knicks renounced his bird right's, the cap hold is removed. Plus, I don't think hold gets added the way you're doing it. They don't have 12 mil. They have roughly 7 to 8 mil because by dealing Shump, that hold value is no longer dealt with by them. Whatever space they have is therefore just their current salaries removed.

 

[DJ Fieri]

The Cavs lost by 12 to the Rockets.

 

[bksballer89]

Cavs are Lebron or bust

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cavs are Lebron or bust

Which was always going to be the case.

He had more support here.

With James' basketball IQ, he has to know that defense is needed to win championships.

He had a chance here if Wade is healthy for the playoffs.

I'm not sure who/what he was banking on there.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Now they have room for 2 maxes and role players? Where are you getting that? I haven't seen that listed anywhere from even the most generous writers grading the trade. And the cap hold isn't that big of a deal if the Knicks are hellbent on carving out space. If the Knicks renounced his bird right's, the cap hold is removed. Plus, I don't think hold gets added the way you're doing it. They don't have 12 mil. They have roughly 7 to 8 mil because by dealing Shump, that hold value is no longer dealt with by them. Whatever space they have is therefore just their current salaries removed.

Ummm, simple mathematics?

They are not getting Love, Gasol, Aldridge.

But, Monroe, Reggie Jackson, Butler, Kawhi types?

* restricted fa*

Yes.

They have 33 million in open cap.

Max for those guys are 15 and change.

Then they have mid-level, biannual..etc, etc

It's all over the net, not sure why you haven't seen it.


Now that the Knicks have waved the white flag on this season with Monday’s moves, they’re expected to have an estimated $33 million in salary-cap space this summer. They also hold a first-round pick in this year’s draft, and with the worst record in the league, would have a 25 percent chance to land the No. 1 pick in the NBA lottery.


Top 20 offseason targets for Knicks fans to salivate over | New York Post


With Smith's $6.4 million player option for next year now off their books, the Knicks are looking at having in excess of $30 million in cap space next summer. Smith gets a $533,135 trade kicker bonus as part of the deal.

J.R. Smith, Dion Waiters involved in 3-team trade between New York Knicks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Oklahoma City Thunder - ESPN

As far as the cap hold, how is it better to renounce him, and get nothing, than to trade him to another Team to rid themselves of a bad contract?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here but I'm not talking about what the Cavs got, I'm talking about what the Knicks could have done and didn't get. And its not just based on my opinion. They've turned down better offers. And the Lin trade has little if anything to do with this situation. Houston was desperate to make room to sign Chris Bosh so the Lakers fleeced them. This is a different scenario. You're too hung up on JR Smith to see how its botched asset management.



/QUOTE]

...So, letting Pau walk for Nothing, to preserve cap space is different than trading Shump, for nothing, to preserve cap space?

The Lin trade was just an example of a team sweetening the pot to get a deal done.

Same with Richard Jefferson.

It's pretty simple.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

From Folks that actually do this for a living....

Good trade or bad trade for the Knicks?

Begley: Good trade for New York -- but obviously not for this season. New York rid themselves of Smith's $6.4 million contract option in 2015-16, which opens up more cap space and opportunities to chase free agents. You can argue that the Knicks had better offers on the table in the past for Shumpert, but there's little doubt that Phil Jackson put his club in a strong position to improve in free agency this summer.


Elhassan: Good because as the only team that can confidently say "we're worse than the Sixers," the Knicks basically have no other recourse for this season other than to ensure their pick is as high as possible. Losing Shumpert was the cost of getting rid of Smith's cap hit for next year ($6.4 million), giving the Knicks more flexibility to go big-game hunting.

McMenamin: It's good. They weren't going anywhere this season other than the lottery and Jackson and Derek Fisher gave the roster half a season to figure out who they were ready to uproot to plant new seeds. They'll now have close to $30 million to play with this summer on the free-agent market. Now, is it a good thing overall for the state of the Knicks franchise that they just signed Carmelo Anthony to a max extension this summer and he could be shutting it down with a knee injury while Jackson is getting paid $12 million to pull the strings on this disaster of a season? That's a different question.

Shelburne: Great trade for the Knicks. They created $7 million in salary cap space in this trade and rid themselves of a guy who had been a square peg in the triangle offense Jackson and Fisher have been trying to teach. Yes, they lose Shumpert, a good young player they had interest in retaining this summer. But the Knicks could have lost him via restricted free agency anyway, and they had to give up something to get rid of Smith and his contract without taking back a bad contract in return.

Young: Good. The Knicks dumped Smith's contract and personality, two things that are a start to putting out the dumpster fire that resides in Madison Square Garden. The Knicks are showing at least somewhat of an eye for the future, bringing in nonguaranteed deals to open up a little future financial flexibility.

NBA: Evaluating Oklahoma City Thunder New York Knicks Cleveland Cavaliers three-way trade - ESPN

 

[DJ Fieri]

I liked the trade for the Knicks. Not sure what the Cavs were thinking trading Waiters to OKC and getting a lesser player in JR Smith. Total fucking headcase and I'm not sure getting an injured Shump offsets it.

 

[DJ Fieri]

If healthy....Shump gives them a good defender, but he likes to shoot too. Despite barely making just 40% of his attempts this season.

 

[DJ Fieri]

The new look Pistons are beating the new look Mavs.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I liked the trade for the Knicks. Not sure what the Cavs were thinking trading Waiters to OKC and getting a lesser player in JR Smith. Total fucking headcase and I'm not sure getting an injured Shump offsets it.

Yeah...Shump is out for 3 weeks.

They should have traded for Brewer in the Wiggins deal.

I will say, JR. Smith fits the role better than Waiters.

They wanted Dion to be a spot up shooter.

That's not his strength.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I don't think JR has any strengths honestly.

:rollseyes:

 

[DJ Fieri]

He's just like Swaggy, instant offense....but has a lot more off the court issues.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

He's just like Swaggy, instant offense....but has a lot more off the court issues.

He is a Swaggy/JR. Rider Hybrid.

That's harsh.....

Rider was a Drug Addict. But, he never killed anyone

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I'm out....Going to pretend to watch Guardians of the Galaxy with my baby while I watch the Clipper game.

L8r, DJ!