Shump & JR to Cleveland

[Leking2246]

Unless you're saying this team will win a championship then you aren't saying much.

They have a good chance...much better now then before the trade i give credit to the center they got that was huge for their defense

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

[/B]



A new 'forever' Cavs fan..born Dec. 2014

DOD- May. 2015

 

[Leking2246]

I don't remember him mentioning Anthony Davis

Just kidding

Makes him look like a whinny little girl.

He should really stop taking the bait.

OKC's record really should be graded on a sliding scale because of the injuries.

All in all, he couldn't have landed in a better situation unless he went to the Spurs.

Pop would have strangled him.

Pop would prob bench him for shit like that lol

He did land in a good situation but u could say landing on a team with lebron

Dion is just not very good is the major problem..

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

They have a good chance...much better now then before the trade i give credit to the center they got that was huge for their defense

I had them in the ECF and I still see that happening.

Can they beat the Bulls/Hawks/Raps/Wiz kids in a 7 game series?

Sure.....

Unfortunately, the Spurs are getting Healthy.

* shudder gasp*

Game over.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Pop would prob bench him for shit like that lol

He did land in a good situation but u could say landing on a team with lebron

Dion is just not very good is the major problem..

His biggest problem is: He's not as good as he thinks he is....

 

[WiggyRuss]

Pop would prob bench him for shit like that lol

He did land in a good situation but u could say landing on a team with lebron

Dion is just not very good is the major problem..

I dont even know how anyone can say those trades werent great for the Cavs.

They are playing great ball lately- better than at any time during the season and Mozgov and Jr Smith have been fit perfectly into their roles.

Its such a nice thing to be able to put guys into roles that they fit or even are slightly overqualified for- rather than having them play roles that are over their heads.

When you play with LeBron the game is just naturally easier as well......




and all the Kyrie haters out there saying he was injury prone and a poor defensive player have to be eating some crow now. He has taken huge strides on the defensive end- and despite missing a couple games and being a little gimpy for a few additional games he has been healthy.... a lot more so then a lot of other players out there who are supposedly not as injury prone as he is

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Kyrie has a strong case for most improved player.

Everyone was right on over the last couple years for criticizing Kyrie's defense. Even though he was asked to be such a huge part of the offense- and carry it on most days- his defense was really inexcusable.

Kyrie has really stepped up on that end of the floor. He has stepped up his shooting by 3.5%, his 3 point shooting by 2.5%. His assists are right around his career average even though he is sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. His turnovers are the lowest of his career. He has developed into a good leader.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think Kyrie has a strong case for most improved player.

Everyone was right on over the last couple years for criticizing Kyrie's defense. Even though he was asked to be such a huge part of the offense- and carry it on most days- his defense was really inexcusable.

Kyrie has really stepped up on that end of the floor. He has stepped up his shooting by 3.5%, his 3 point shooting by 2.5%. His assists are right around his career average even though he is sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. His turnovers are the lowest of his career. He has developed into a good leader.

The Cavs are 1-9 ( that is 1 win, 9 losses) WITHOUT James.
Please stop with ' what Kyrie' can do, until he actually does something that LEADS to victories.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Cavs are 1-9 ( that is 1 win, 9 losses) WITHOUT James.
Please stop with ' what Kyrie' can do, until he actually does something that LEADS to victories.

if you paid attention you would know that was PRECISELY the time Kyrie was hurting and missed games- along with Love being hurt with his back, the Cavs losing Varejao, and the Cavs making 2 major trades

so please try and be real.

Kyrie is 22 years old and not even close to his prime but has already established himself as a perennial all star. His defense has made huge steps up.

LeBron did not leave Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to go play with scrubs. He left those guys because he knew there best days were behind them- and Kyrie's best days are ahead of him.

As a ton of coaches and analysts and league experts have said that the US team experience has been crucial in the careers of players. Cousins had a great experience and has taken major strides this year as have other guys

but none proved more and took bigger steps then Kyrie- a guy that was not even guaranteed a spot became a starter- and then the MVP of the tourney.

If the Cavs offered him straight up for Wade or Bosh and sentimentality was not an aspect the Heat would take that deal in about half a second, get off the phone and lose their minds in absolute joy.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

if you paid attention you would know that was PRECISELY the time Kyrie was hurting and missed games- along with Love being hurt with his back, the Cavs losing Varejao, and the Cavs making 2 major trades

so please try and be real.

Kyrie is 22 years old and not even close to his prime but has already established himself as a perennial all star. His defense has made huge steps up.

LeBron did not leave Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh to go play with scrubs. He left those guys because he knew there best days were behind them- and Kyrie's best days are ahead of him.

As a ton of coaches and analysts and league experts have said that the US team experience has been crucial in the careers of players. Cousins had a great experience and has taken major strides this year as have other guys

but none proved more and took bigger steps then Kyrie- a guy that was not even guaranteed a spot became a starter- and then the MVP of the tourney.

If the Cavs offered him straight up for Wade or Bosh and sentimentality was not an aspect the Heat would take that deal in about half a second, get off the phone and lose their minds in absolute joy.

Holy Shit..
You're argument is that the Heat would choose a player who is 10 years younger than the other if given the choice today?
NO SHIT.

I honestly hope that one day you can make better arguments as an attorney then the nonsense you spew here.

Look, make all the excuses you want , FACT is, Kyrie lead the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA from the time he was drafted until the day James returned.

Then, when James was out this year, the Cavs looked like total garbage.

You act like the Cavs are the only team that has had injured players / new players.
Totally blinded by homerism, going back to your 72 win prediction.


I'll be the first to agree with anyone that Wade is a shell of what he once was, but what he is, is by far the best player that James has ever teamed up with, and when all is said and done, will be ranked miles ahead of Kyrie historically.


And, BTW, Kyrie was guaranteed a spot because of his relationship with coach K.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Holy Shit..
You're argument is that the Heat would choose a player who is 10 years younger than the other if given the choice today?
NO SHIT.

I honestly hope that one day you can make better arguments as an attorney then the nonsense you spew here.

Look, make all the excuses you want , FACT is, Kyrie lead the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA from the time he was drafted until the day James returned.

Then, when James was out this year, the Cavs looked like total garbage.

You act like the Cavs are the only team that has had injured players / new players.
Totally blinded by homerism, going back to your 72 win prediction.


I'll be the first to agree with anyone that Wade is a shell of what he once was, but what he is, is by far the best player that James has ever teamed up with, and when all is said and done, will be ranked miles ahead of Kyrie historically.


And, BTW, Kyrie was guaranteed a spot because of his relationship with coach K.

Again,

you have full access to my commets. I predicted 61 wins for the Cavs. You can go back through and look it up.

I merely said they would choose Kyrie- which makes total sense- it was no type of argument. My argument for Kyrie is that he is a much improved defender. Maybe the best finisher at the rim in the league according to Mark Jackson the other day, maybe the best ball handler in the game, and an elite shooter- and all of this at age 22 years old.

and again - all you are doing is using a false narrative about the time LeBron was out. Not only was LeBron out but the team was in huge turmoil from the turnover of 2 trades, the loss of LEbron, Kyries own injuries, Loves bad back, etc....The narrative you are using is just totally 100% cherry picked.

If the Heat lost Wade and went on to go 1-10 in 11 games he was out that is one thing. If the Heat lost Wade, Bosh sustained an injury and missed games and was gimpy for others, they made 2 trades and recently came off the lost of Luol Deng, all while adjusting to a new coach and going on a West Coast trip- that is a little different.

but again -its convenient for you to ignore these facts.

I just know that Kyrie is 22 years old and about to make his 3rd all star team, has been ROY, won a 3pt contest, been the MVP of the world championships and gave the Cleveland fans hope after LeBron- becasue without hte draw of Kyrie- LeBron does not come back.

Kyrie has taken big strides this year in sharing the ball, efficiency, defense and leadership- for a guy thats 22 to show the maturity he has is really remarkable. Its awesome that for the next 5 years after this one LeBron and Kyrie will be helping eachother contend for titles and that some day Kyrie will take that mantle from LeBron- ie. Peyton to Luck

 

[WiggyRuss]

ohh yah...the only reason why Kyrie made the US Team over guys like Lillard was because he knew Coach K...the only reason he became the starter was because he knew coach K. The only reason he led the US team to the title was because he knew coach K...the only reason he won MVP of the entire tourney was because he knew coach K.

him and Curry will be the Olympic starters in all likelihood again- as when it comes down to it- as far as pure talent goes no one can match those two....

either that or coach K favors Kyrie instead of playing the best guy....im sure thats how he has such a succesful career...

 

[WiggyRuss]

NEXT year is when i predicted the Cavs will make a run at 70- after they come together as a team and finish off the construction of the roster- and add another substantial talent with the HAywood contract...and i totally stand by that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Again,

you have full access to my commets. I predicted 61 wins for the Cavs. You can go back through and look it up.

I merely said they would choose Kyrie- which makes total sense- it was no type of argument. My argument for Kyrie is that he is a much improved defender. Maybe the best finisher at the rim in the league according to Mark Jackson the other day, maybe the best ball handler in the game, and an elite shooter- and all of this at age 22 years old.

and again - all you are doing is using a false narrative about the time LeBron was out. Not only was LeBron out but the team was in huge turmoil from the turnover of 2 trades, the loss of LEbron, Kyries own injuries, Loves bad back, etc....The narrative you are using is just totally 100% cherry picked.

If the Heat lost Wade and went on to go 1-10 in 11 games he was out that is one thing. If the Heat lost Wade, Bosh sustained an injury and missed games and was gimpy for others, they made 2 trades and recently came off the lost of Luol Deng, all while adjusting to a new coach and going on a West Coast trip- that is a little different.

but again -its convenient for you to ignore these facts.

I just know that Kyrie is 22 years old and about to make his 3rd all star team, has been ROY, won a 3pt contest, been the MVP of the world championships and gave the Cleveland fans hope after LeBron- becasue without hte draw of Kyrie- LeBron does not come back.

Kyrie has taken big strides this year in sharing the ball, efficiency, defense and leadership- for a guy thats 22 to show the maturity he has is really remarkable. Its awesome that for the next 5 years after this one LeBron and Kyrie will be helping eachother contend for titles and that some day Kyrie will take that mantle from LeBron- ie. Peyton to Luck

Kyrie will be properly valued in 2016, because then the top PGs will be on the new salary structure and he'll be locked in under the current one.

Anyway, I'm not saying Kyrie isn't a good player. The league is full of good players though.
I'm saying, on his own, he's not a major difference maker.
His 0 appearances as the team leader in a weak EC the last few years is all the proof you need.
Maybe someday that will change, but until it does, it hasn't. Understand?

I'm glad he shines in exhibition games, contests , etc..
Who cares?

Now go warch the highlights of the 2006 NBA Finals games 3-6.
That is what great players want on their resume and want to be remembered for.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

ohh yah...the only reason why Kyrie made the US Team over guys like Lillard was because he knew Coach K...the only reason he became the starter was because he knew coach K. The only reason he led the US team to the title was because he knew coach K...the only reason he won MVP of the entire tourney was because he knew coach K.

him and Curry will be the Olympic starters in all likelihood again- as when it comes down to it- as far as pure talent goes no one can match those two....

either that or coach K favors Kyrie instead of playing the best guy....im sure thats how he has such a succesful career...

The team could have been victories with any of the PGs that didn't make it.
Coach K smartly showed loyalty.
He wants James to play, and obviously it helps him with future recruiting.

Anyway, the best part of all of this is that Kyrie isn't even a PG on the Cavs, nor should he be.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

NEXT year is when i predicted the Cavs will make a run at 70- after they come together as a team and finish off the construction of the roster- and add another substantial talent with the HAywood contract...and i totally stand by that.

And we will all be laughing at you once again.

James doesn't even put a ton of value on the regular season anymore.
70 will never, ever, be on his resume.

He had to crank it up lately because the team was falling apart.

His goal is to play at his highest level while healthy starting in mid April, not mid January.
He won't continue to kill himself for the next 40.
Watch and see.

 

[WiggyRuss]

LeBron missed the playoffs his first two years

Durant missed the playoffs his first two years

CP3 missed the playoffs his first two years

Anthony Davis has not yet made the playoffs

in no way shape or form is it an indictment on Kyrie that at the age of 19-21 and with a team that was among the youngest in the league- that saved its cap space to get assets to rebuild the team (like the Sixers are doing- like OKC did), that was more concerned with gathering assets then putting a team on the court that would do nothing more than make the 8 seed- should be held against Kyrie

if the Cavs really wanted to they could have tried to speed up the rebuilding- to rush it- but then what happens? they make the 7 or 8 seed, get a bad draft pick, and kill their flexibility? (basically the exact thing the Heat is doing this season)

it makes no sense- the worst place to be in the league is one of the bottom spots of the playoffs- especially in the East...especially when you have to sacrifice long term success and building a real contender the slow and sure way like OKC did, like the Cavs did, like the Sixers are doing

instead of the Knicks way or Brooklyn way- going all out for a quick fix and being left with no flexibility and no long term susttainbable success

but again- its whatever narrative you choose to push. If you think it would have been more important to the Cavs to rush the rebuild so kyrie can say he led a team to the playoffs at the age of 20- intead of stock piling assets that eventually led to the acquisitions of Love, Mozgov, Shumpert, and Smith-- AND the return of LeBron--- well then...thats on you

no one htough LeBron would come back to Cleveland that quick besides a few people- but because they did not rush the process- they were in position to give LeBron a team that was far more attractive than the Heats.

but- it seems you think it would have been more important to make the 7th seed Kyries 2nd year.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The team could have been victories with any of the PGs that didn't make it.
Coach K smartly showed loyalty.
He wants James to play, and obviously it helps him with future recruiting.

Anyway, the best part of all of this is that Kyrie isn't even a PG on the Cavs, nor should he be.

were you even paying attention? Spain was on equal footing in that tournament with the US- and- i am not sure- but i think they had better odds to win since ther was no LeBron, Love, Durant, Melo, Griffin, Aldridge, Kobe, etc.

that victory was no sure thing when the tournament started. to say anything else is revisionist history.

 

[WiggyRuss]

if the Cavs rushed their rebuild- and did not get all those assets and high draft picks LeBron is probably not back in Cleveland for at least another couple years.

Kyrie could have made the playoffs if in year 2 they spent a ton of money talent around him. Instead they kept rebuilding- got more high picks- rented out their cap space to get evne more picks

and voila---- LeBron gets pissed in the last game of the finals and comes out after the half throwing passive aggrsive rocket passes to his teammates who fail him

he looks around- sees a Cleveland team with a great young all star in Kyrie- and the assets to acquire another all star- plus other solid young talent that can either help like Thomposn - or bring back talent in a trade like Waiters---- and a bunch of assets like first rounders and Zeller and Karasev who were used to clear cap space for LeBron...

it would have been HIGHLY counterproductive for the Cavs to make the playoffs early in Kyries career- just like it would have ben highly counterproductive for Durant to make the playoffs his first couple years and not finish in a spot where they could draft Westbrook and Durant- and use the picks they acquired from renting their cap space out on guys like Ibaka.....

but- i dunno - your probably right- the Durant automatically would have warranted more respect if the Thunder tried for a quick fix- signed a bunch of over priced free agents and made the playoffs his 2nd year.

Kyrie would deserve more respect if the Cavs rushed the rebuild, signed high priced talent to make the playoffs his 2nd year instead of taking their time and rebuilding and putting themselves in the position to get high picks and trade for multiple draft picks that ended up getting them LEBron, Love , Mozgov, Smith, Shumpert, Miller, Marion

Michael Carter Williams would be much more worthy of our respect as a player if the Sixers rushed their rebuild -used all their cap space on solid vets and made the playoffs his 2nd year instead of trading Holliday for extra picks and taking Embiid, Dario Saric, and other young talent in order to have sustainable success and a chance at major success---- rushing the rebuild to get the 7th seed would have been much better and would have validated MCW as a great young player

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

if the Cavs rushed their rebuild- and did not get all those assets and high draft picks LeBron is probably not back in Cleveland for at least another couple years.


James is back because Gilbert gave him total control/strong input of the teams decision making, as well as agreeing to let James 'people' have whatever they want.


Kyrie could have made the playoffs if in year 2 they spent a ton of money talent around him. Instead they kept rebuilding- got more high picks- rented out their cap space to get evne more picks

You have NO IDEA what they "could have" done, because they didn't.
Lets go back no further then last year, when the Cavs were all in trying to desperately make the playoffs while several teams were in obvious tank mode.
Didn't the Cavs trade assets for Hawes and Deng? Am I missing any other moves?
Where did Kyrie lead them?
On the other hand, Kemba found a way to lead the Bobcats from one of the lowest all time win teams to the playoffs.


You can argue all you want about the merits of making or not making the playoffs but that really isn't the point.
Obviously the Cavs will make them this year, but that is no accomplishment at all.
Having James means championship or BUST, every single year, and especially when you are trading away a decades worth of assets to try to accomplish it.