Should We Be Pissed?

[ColinCoby]

Did anyone ever find out out with certainty when our last payment on the stadium is?

Found an article from Dec., 2004. Minnesota Public Radio of all things. It stated:

SBC Park cost $315 million. After selling the naming rights for $50 million and raising about $90 million through personal seat licenses and corporate sponsorships, the Giants borrowed $175 million for construction. The team pays about $17 million annually to service that debt, and will for another 15 years.

2004 + 15=2019?

 

[msgkings322]

Found an article from Dec., 2004. Minnesota Public Radio of all things. It stated:

SBC Park cost $315 million. After selling the naming rights for $50 million and raising about $90 million through personal seat licenses and corporate sponsorships, the Giants borrowed $175 million for construction. The team pays about $17 million annually to service that debt, and will for another 15 years.

2004 + 15=2019?

This seems right. I believe the loan was a 20 year deal, with construction starting in 1999

 

[ColinCoby]

Anyone know anything about the Giants TV deal? Apparently the Angels were able to open up the checkbook because of their new $3 billion, 20-year TV contract they just signed with Fox Sports. Any chance, given the team's popularity, a new contract might be a possiblity?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Found an article from Dec., 2004. Minnesota Public Radio of all things. It stated:

SBC Park cost $315 million. After selling the naming rights for $50 million and raising about $90 million through personal seat licenses and corporate sponsorships, the Giants borrowed $175 million for construction. The team pays about $17 million annually to service that debt, and will for another 15 years.

2004 + 15=2019?

That DOES seem right. I was hoping it was a 15-year loan from 1999.

Dang - I was hoping for a three-year cascading rolloff of long-term commitments.

2013 - No Rowand
2014 - No Zito
2015 - No stadium payments

As the Bard MeatLoaf sang - "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad".

At least we got our money's worth out of the stadium.

 

[msgkings322]

That DOES seem right. I was hoping it was a 15-year loan from 1999.

Dang - I was hoping for a three-year cascading rolloff of long-term commitments.

2013 - No Rowand
2014 - No Zito
2015 - No stadium payments

As the Bard MeatLoaf sang - "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad".

At least we got our money's worth out of the stadium.

And at least the Giants didn't r*pe the taxpayers like almost every other sports team does. I for one will never complain about payroll for that reason, considering they also tend to be in the top 3rd anyway.

We aren't the Yankees/Red Sox/Angels/Cubs in terms of revenue (net of debt service) and any fan who thinks we are is deluded.

 

[SF11704]

It's pretty hard to be 'pissed' at a management team that got us a WS title in 2010. I waited a long time for that and was estatic for quite a few months following it. As a fan today what I feel is a mixture of jealousy and somewhat misplaced anticipation. Looking at all the Marlins have done and now seeing what the DBacks have put in place provides a real good foundation for my jealously. My misplaced anticipation was largely equated to waiting for CarBel to be signed. I wanted a big bat didn't really care if he was 36 years old and somewhat injury prone. Just wanted to see him in the middle of our lineup. I'm ok with the signings of Pagan and Cabrera. Just not what I was 'anticipating'. Let the 2012 season begin ......

 

[tzill]

This seems right. I believe the loan was a 20 year deal, with construction starting in 1999

That is my recollection as well. The rough date I have in my mind is 2020. However, the OP's question is likely: when will the Giants dramatically raise payroll to a BoSox/Yankee/Philly/Angel level.

Answer: never.

 

[filosofy29]

That is my recollection as well. The rough date I have in my mind is 2020. However, the OP's question is likely: when will the Giants dramatically raise payroll to a BoSox/Yankee/Philly/Angel level.

Answer: never.

Pretty bold (no pun intended) assumption considering the Angels wouldn't have even been on this list 10 - 15 years ago.

 

[Mays-Fan]

However, the OP's question is likely: when will the Giants dramatically raise payroll to a BoSox/Yankee/Philly/Angel level.

When Mark Cuban buys the A's and moves them to San Antonio?

[Hey, it's on my list for Santa]

 

[Heathbar012]

I think it's a little premature to declare this off-season a "bust." These trades freed up a little bit more money (in addition to slightly improving the line-up). There will be another signing. Will it be Jimmy Rollins? I doubt it freed up enough money to outbid the Phillies, but it's possible that they don't want to give him the years that he seeks. I don't necessarily want the Giants to over-pay Rollins for his final contract, but adding him to a semi-platoon situation with Crawbaby could extend his career (in addition to moving to second if Freddie goes down). He would immediately make every spot in the line-up legitimately average or better.

Of course, the Giants will probably end up with Yuniesky Betancourt or sticking with Fonty, but it's fun to dream. If anything would inspire the front office to look harder at Rollins, that A's-D-backs trade should do it.

 

[msgkings322]

Pretty bold (no pun intended) assumption considering the Angels wouldn't have even been on this list 10 - 15 years ago.

Agreed, can't say never. The Phillies too have only recently become big spenders.

After the stadium debt is paid off, if we have a nice revenue stream from TV we could certainly get into that mix. We probably won't ever catch the Yankees and Red Sox, but could we start spending like the next tier down (White Sox, Angels, Cubs)

Major League Baseball Team Payrolls 1998-2012

As others have noted, it's not just spending a lot, it's avoiding disasters like Zito and Rowand contracts.

 

[ColinCoby]

That is my recollection as well. The rough date I have in my mind is 2020. However, the OP's question is likely: when will the Giants dramatically raise payroll to a BoSox/Yankee/Philly/Angel level.

Answer: never.

The Angels payroll stands at about $170 million. I imagine it will drop significantly over the next few years as Hunter and Abreu retire and are replaced by Trout, etc. The Angels and Giants should have a pretty similar payroll in the near future.

The ballpark bill, the desire to sign Cain/Timmeh long-term, and too many millions going toward previous contract fuckups= a shitty offseason. Which is a disappointment, given how much money the fans have pumped into the organization over the last few years. But it's understandable...I guess.

Raising the payroll by $10 million might ruin an owner's Christmas, but it would sure make me feel a lot better.

 

[Giantsmojo]

Pegan CF > Torres/Rowand
Sanchez 2B >> Keppinger/Fontenot/Burris
Cabrera LF > Ross/Burrell
Posey C >Whiteside/Stewart/Sanchez
Sandoval 3B = Sandoval
Schierholtz RF < Beltran
Huff/Belt 1B > Huff/Belt (Huff every other year? Belt with more experience)
Crawford SS > Crawford (More experience)

Overall we have upgraded significantly from last season, with more speed at the top of the lineup (Pagan, Cabrera), consistent hitting in the middle (Cabrera, Posey, Sandoval)

 

[tzill]

Agreed, can't say never. The Phillies too have only recently become big spenders.

After the stadium debt is paid off, if we have a nice revenue stream from TV we could certainly get into that mix. We probably won't ever catch the Yankees and Red Sox, but could we start spending like the next tier down (White Sox, Angels, Cubs)

Major League Baseball Team Payrolls 1998-2012

As others have noted, it's not just spending a lot, it's avoiding disasters like Zito and Rowand contracts.

This. We have plenty of payroll to contend.

 

[tzill]

The Angels payroll stands at about $170 million. I imagine it will drop significantly over the next few years as Hunter and Abreu retire and are replaced by Trout, etc. The Angels and Giants should have a pretty similar payroll in the near future.

The ballpark bill, the desire to sign Cain/Timmeh long-term, and too many millions going toward previous contract fuckups= a shitty offseason. Which is a disappointment, given how much money the fans have pumped into the organization over the last few years. But it's understandable...I guess.

Raising the payroll by $10 million might ruin an owner's Christmas, but it would sure make me feel a lot better.

The owners did that.

 

[ColinCoby]

The owners did that.

And yet, I don't feel better.

 

[Mays-Fan]

And yet, I don't feel better.

IMHO, in 2011, we had a 10 sigma collapse of our offense due to injury and what I will politely call "non-injury" factors (I'm looking in your direction, Aubrey and Cody).

Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong with our offense.

If we could have a normal year re injury, improvement, and recovery, we should make the playoffs. Then with Cain, Tim, and Bum, I wouldn't be afraid to face anyone in a playoff series.

 

[msgkings322]

IMHO, in 2011, we had a 10 sigma collapse of our offense due to injury and what I will politely call "non-injury" factors (I'm looking in your direction, Aubrey and Cody).

Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong with our offense.

If we could have a normal year re injury, improvement, and recovery, we should make the playoffs. Then with Cain, Tim, and Bum, I wouldn't be afraid to face anyone in a playoff series.

I agree with this except not sure we 'should' make them. I am sure with your criteria we'll be in it until the end. And then once in, agreed, SP rules.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I agree with this except not sure we 'should' make them. I am sure with your criteria we'll be in it until the end. And then once in, agreed, SP rules.

Yeah - by "should" I meant something less than "will". Playoffs are not a certainty by any means. We will have to scrap for every win, and there are a number of contenders.

One thing for reasonably sure - St Louis will be weaker.

 

[SportsTIPS]

Giants still need a BIG bat