Second cup of Coffee Talk

[dash]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Come on release the memo of more Trump propaganda....

House GOPers Say A Secret Memo Could End The Trump-Russia Probe. Their Staff Wrote It. | HuffPost
GOP memo on surveillance ‘abuse’ seeks to discredit the Trump-Russia dossier

I thought nunes recused himself from all of this ... why is he still involved

I saw twitter suspended a whole bunch of russian bot accounts and #releasethememo then stopped (slowed) trending

 

[jstewismybastardson]

 

[thedddd]

^ Gee this is a....<insert wanted Guy Fieri> emoji......

 

[Comeds]

It's chaos here. No government, no leadership. No traffic lights, no pubic television. It's inspired me to write a haiku.

Government shutdown,
Without guidance wandering
Bake sale for the wall

 

[Comeds]

 

[forty_three]

He probably thinks this song is about him.

 

[dash]

Quite disturbing, but also quite funny.

 

[forty_three]

Paul Ryan Collected $500,000 In Koch Contributions Days After House Passed Tax Law | HuffPost

 

[elocomotive]

HQ2 update:

Maryland offering $5 billion and New Jersey offering $7 billion in tax breaks, grants, and transportation improvements to try to win the bid.

These deals never seem to create the return on investment they intend and are patently unfair to small businesses who don't get the same treatment even though collectively they are more important. They just unnecessarily pit states against one another and the citizens lose in the end. Bad public policy.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

HQ2 update:

Maryland offering $5 billion and New Jersey offering $7 billion in tax breaks, grants, and transportation improvements to try to win the bid.

These deals never seem to create the return on investment they intend and are patently unfair to small businesses who don't get the same treatment even though collectively they are more important. They just unnecessarily pit states against one another and the citizens lose in the end. Bad public policy.

I could definitely see them taking over Newark and turning it into their own personal “Model City” the way Google is doing with the portion of the Toronto waterfront that the city gave them last year.

At least Devils game attendance would rise

 

[forty_three]

HQ2 update:

Maryland offering $5 billion and New Jersey offering $7 billion in tax breaks, grants, and transportation improvements to try to win the bid.

These deals never seem to create the return on investment they intend and are patently unfair to small businesses who don't get the same treatment even though collectively they are more important. They just unnecessarily pit states against one another and the citizens lose in the end. Bad public policy.

Columbus is offering 100% tax abatement for 15 years and a 30% tax break for all Amazon employees for 5 years.

And they are going to use the increased tax revenue to fund public transport.

 

[elocomotive]

Columbus is offering 100% tax abatement for 15 years and a 30% tax break for all Amazon employees for 5 years.

And they are going to use the increased tax revenue to fund public transport.

Wow. What a collection of truly terrible plans. I don't even understand the personal tax break for employees - that's just ridiculous. People are going to move there (or already live there) anyways, so why is that even necessary?

Corporate welfare. I'm tired of these corporate "takers."

 

[forty_three]

Wow. What a collection of truly terrible plans. I don't even understand the personal tax break for employees - that's just ridiculous. People are going to move there (or already live there) anyways, so why is that even necessary?

Corporate welfare. I'm tired of these corporate "takers."

It's a completely a terrible idea. They are going to need serious tax revenue for infrastructure upgrades required for that many additional people living here.

 

[elocomotive]

It's a completely a terrible idea. They are going to need serious tax revenue for infrastructure upgrades required for that many additional people living here.

I figured out Maryland's tax plans. If 50,000 jobs are added at lets say $75K per year (high I know, but not out of the realm of possiblity since these are a lot of high level jobs and Maryland's average is $70K), that creates about $168 million in tax revenue each year. So it would take 29 years and 9 months for Maryland to recoup the tax incentives and infrastructure costs from a $5 billion package.

At which time, those jobs may have moved elsewhere, downsized, or Amazon might not even exist for all we know. In the meantime, there are still strains on hospitals, utility infrastructure, etc. to pay for as well, so the real time to recoup is probably longer.

It just doesn't make any fiscal sense except for a politician (who cares about his job now) to show what they've done rather than caring about the REAL costs to voters and the public now AND in the future. Voodoo economics.

Spending on current infrastructure improvements, small benefits for many small businesses, or a number of other options yield a better ROI than this shite.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I figured out Maryland's tax plans. If 50,000 jobs are added at lets say $75K per year (high I know, but not out of the realm of possiblity since these are a lot of high level jobs and Maryland's average is $70K), that creates about $168 million in tax revenue each year. So it would take 29 years and 9 months for Maryland to recoup the tax incentives and infrastructure costs from a $5 billion package.

At which time, those jobs may have moved elsewhere, downsized, or Amazon might not even exist for all we know. In the meantime, there are still strains on hospitals, utility infrastructure, etc. to pay for as well, so the real time to recoup is probably longer.

It just doesn't make any fiscal sense except for a politician (who cares about his job now) to show what they've done rather than caring about the REAL costs to voters and the public now AND in the future. Voodoo economics.

Spending on current infrastructure improvements, small benefits for many small businesses, or a number of other options yield a better ROI than this shite.

You have to factor in all of the other revenues that result to get the actual economic impact. For example, all 50K of those people are going to be buying groceries, clothes, eating at restaurants, going to movies, etc. which results in sales tax being paid. And those stores/restaurants/theaters are going to hire more people because they're busier, resulting in more jobs and more taxes being paid.

You're also going to get more people flying in and out of the local airports. That's hotel, airport, and rental car taxes.

For the record, I'm not arguing in favor of any specific incentives. I just argue in favor of math.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Wow. What a collection of truly terrible plans. I don't even understand the personal tax break for employees - that's just ridiculous. People are going to move there (or already live there) anyways, so why is that even necessary?

Corporate welfare. I'm tired of these corporate "takers."

I'd guess the specific intent is to address the issue 43 posted a few days ago about filling the talent pool. Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon is paying more-or-less the same as other companies in the area, the lack of personal income tax could work strongly in favor of someone choosing Amazon over another company.

I'd think it's essentially trying to give them an unfair advantage in filling all of their open positions.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

You have to factor in all of the other revenues that result to get the actual economic impact. For example, all 50K of those people are going to be buying groceries, clothes, eating at restaurants, going to movies, etc. which results in sales tax being paid. And those stores/restaurants/theaters are going to hire more people because they're busier, resulting in more jobs and more taxes being paid.

You're also going to get more people flying in and out of the local airports. That's hotel, airport, and rental car taxes.

For the record, I'm not arguing in favor of any specific incentives. I just argue in favor of math.

Companies like this also tend to attract spin-off industries that tie in to the large corporation they’re trying to buy into their jurisdiction and the educated & well-off workforces that tend to go with those companies, too.

Also taxes and fees the gov’t would collect on automobiles & property.

/FWIW, Toronto didn’t offer Amazon shit all (but they would save on medical benefits here). There might be some sort of land donation scheme they would negotiate like Google did (the Portlands area are still very available for someone to go in and totally leave their mark on them and is the size of two downtown Toronto’s).

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Companies like this also tend to attract spin-off industries that tie in to the large corporation they’re trying to buy into their jurisdiction and the educated & well-off workforces that tend to go with those companies, too.

Also taxes and fees the gov’t would collect on automobiles & property.

/FWIW, Toronto didn’t offer Amazon shit all (but they would save on medical benefits here). There might be some sort of land donation scheme they would negotiate like Google did (the Portlands area are still very available for someone to go in and totally leave their mark on them and is the size of two downtown Toronto’s).

Yeah, that list could go on for a long time.

I'd guess the level of incentives are generally proportional to how desirable the area is in the first place. It's not a shock that Newark would have to offer a lot more than Toronto because other than "it's close to New York City" I think most people would agree that Toronto is a more desirable place to live than Newark.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yeah, that list could go on for a long time.

I'd guess the level of incentives are generally proportional to how desirable the area is in the first place. It's not a shock that Newark would have to offer a lot more than Toronto because other than "it's close to New York City" I think most people would agree that Toronto is a more desirable place to live than Newark.

Maybe, but North Jersey is generally a pretty desirable place to live. You could get a house in Summit and take a 20 minute NJ Transit train or a 30 minute drive to Newark.