Second cup of Coffee Talk

[BGDave]

It is obvious that won't happen. But items like the Dickey Amendment that blocks funding for research is something we can start with by pressuring our congressmen to repeal it.

Of course not. But I am interested in views on what should be done that will be effective.

Lets try to find a good solution, then figure out how to implement it. That's why I want to avoid these legal and political issues for the time being.

 

[dare2be]

So what is the "solution"?

Ban guns altogether? Forget the 2nd Amendment for a moment. Lets park that to one side.

Is there a solution?

I don't have one.

No solution is going to be perfect, but I'd start with expanding background checks to full psychological evaluations and requirements for operational training, safety training, and situational training. Ban private sales. Require stiffer training and background requirements for certain semi-automatic or fully-automatic and large-clip weapons.

Just a start of the discussion.

 

[BGDave]

No solution is going to be perfect, but I'd start with expanding background checks to full psychological evaluations and requirements for operational training, safety training, and situational training. Ban private sales. Require stiffer training and background requirements for certain semi-automatic or fully-automatic and large-clip weapons.

Just a start of the discussion.

I agree with all of that, with the understanding that a black market will always exist.

The banning of private sales is the most controversial IMO. I think the time has come (already came) for that one.

 

[forty_three]

I totally agree with you but we know who lines the pockets of the representatives always win.

We call that the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

 

[thedddd]

Of course not. But I am interested in views on what should be done that will be effective.

Lets try to find a good solution, then figure out how to implement it. That's why I want to avoid these legal and political issues for the time being.

You aren't unless there is legal or political issues.
Banning ammo/silencers, etc...is very political and legal. Funding the proper agencies to research these items is always good start and might be more traction but no matter what way you go it is going to be political.

 

[elocomotive]

No solution is going to be perfect, but I'd start with expanding background checks to full psychological evaluations and requirements for operational training, safety training, and situational training. Ban private sales. Require stiffer training and background requirements for certain semi-automatic or fully-automatic and large-clip weapons.

Just a start of the discussion.

Cars are dangerous entities that we closely regulate and have significant rules about to make sure they don't cause undue death and injury. I've always said that gun regulations should mirror rules we have about cars. Age restrictions should apply to both. Verifying safe storage could mirror safety inspections we have. Things like that. We don't allow certain guns to be bought just like we don't allow certain engines to be street legal.

The fact is that a number of countries have reduced this problem to almost nothing, and we act like it is not a solvable problem. We make absurd excuses about the difference in cultures and ignore studies that provide good causal evidence. Yet ANOTHER area where academic research and facts provides good information on how to solve this problem, but the gun lobby obscures and frustrates this information with fake studies and prays on people's belief over logic.

This is not a mature society. We have the world's highest level of incarcerated population and yet we are among the worst in gun death right up there with countries we would look down on as being "uncivilized." We have the most expensive healthcare and it isn't even close to the best. We have one of the lowest personal tax rates, and yet people complain about not having access to health care and livable wages which a more equitable tax apportionment could provide. We are doing a lot of things wrong, and we have people voting against their own interest, allowing special interest dollars to win the day, because of their beliefs. Because they'd rather vote for someone they want to have a beer with and believes in the same religious beliefs as them than a verified smart person who is trying to come up with solutions to problems for the greater good.

 

[dash]

^

Pretty easy to see why you got kicked off the Politics board

 

[forty_three]

Of course not. But I am interested in views on what should be done that will be effective.

Lets try to find a good solution, then figure out how to implement it. That's why I want to avoid these legal and political issues for the time being.

At this point, the answer to what should be done is "Something. Anything.".

The fact is if someone is crazy and they get it in their head they want to kill lots of people, they are going to find a way. I just think that we should go ahead and take steps to ensure that it's not so easy for someone with that on his or her mind to get their hands on a tool that makes it easy to slaughter 60 people from 1200 yards away. Maybe that's where we start.

^

Pretty easy to see why you got kicked off the Politics board

Lawyer Jokes.

Kidding, very well said elo.





There are some sobering stats that point to the scale of the problem compared to the civilized world.
America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts

 

[elocomotive]

Uncertain what it means yet, but interesting comments from Trump this morning...

“The police department, they’ve done such an incredible job. And we’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes on. But I do have to say, how quickly the police department was able to get in was really very much of a miracle. They’ve done an amazing job.”

 

[forty_three]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

 

[forty_three]

Honestly surprised he didn't regurgitate that "good guy with a gun" nonsense. What a shit stain.


And I get that this guy is distraught and upset, but...
Country Singer Jason Aldean Speaks Out About The Las Vegas Shooting That Began During His Performance

No. Nothing has changed. That's the problem. It's only because it's personally affected you that you even now seem to be aware or care.

This isn't recent, jackhole.

 

[thedddd]

At this point, the answer to what should be done is "Something. Anything.".

The fact is if someone is crazy and they get it in their head they want to kill lots of people, they are going to find a way. I just think that we should go ahead and take steps to ensure that it's not so easy for someone with that on his or her mind to get their hands on a tool that makes it easy to slaughter 60 people from 1200 yards away. Maybe that's where we start.



Lawyer Jokes.

Kidding, very well said elo.





There are some sobering stats that point to the scale of the problem compared to the civilized world.
America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts

I posted that link yesterday. #5 and #7 alone goes against the narrative the NRA and others always spew.

Unfortunately taking steps to ensure someone from doing that is nearly impossible, the NRA is too strong an organization. The only way we can make a change is by diminishing their power.

I keep going back to the Dickey amendment but that is point 1 in proof, it is a law to limit the power of the CDC to do proper research. What the NRA and the gun manufacturers are afraid of, is that, they know the outcome of that research will solidify the stance on making it harder for folks to get the "tools". Instead to use the argument that the CDC would have biased results. Gee like the NRA doesn't!

And without those proper facts, even if the review board is independent, the laws won't change.

 

[thedddd]

Cars are dangerous entities that we closely regulate and have significant rules about to make sure they don't cause undue death and injury. I've always said that gun regulations should mirror rules we have about cars. Age restrictions should apply to both. Verifying safe storage could mirror safety inspections we have. Things like that. We don't allow certain guns to be bought just like we don't allow certain engines to be street legal.

The fact is that a number of countries have reduced this problem to almost nothing, and we act like it is not a solvable problem. We make absurd excuses about the difference in cultures and ignore studies that provide good causal evidence. Yet ANOTHER area where academic research and facts provides good information on how to solve this problem, but the gun lobby obscures and frustrates this information with fake studies and prays on people's belief over logic.

This is not a mature society. We have the world's highest level of incarcerated population and yet we are among the worst in gun death right up there with countries we would look down on as being "uncivilized." We have the most expensive healthcare and it isn't even close to the best. We have one of the lowest personal tax rates, and yet people complain about not having access to health care and livable wages which a more equitable tax apportionment could provide. We are doing a lot of things wrong, and we have people voting against their own interest, allowing special interest dollars to win the day, because of their beliefs. Because they'd rather vote for someone they want to have a beer with and believes in the same religious beliefs as them than a verified smart person who is trying to come up with solutions to problems for the greater good.

What makes it tougher, using cars as an example, laws differ from state to state and even at the county level. Guns, to my knowledge, vary only at the state level but even then regulations become harder. It is not only what can/can't be purchased, it is even where they can/can't be used, displayed, etc....

Perfect example gun show loophole have different varying requirements vs shops and private sellers.

Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

 

[forty_three]

 

[dash]

Caption time...

 

[KennyBanyeah]

So what is the "solution"?

Ban guns altogether? Forget the 2nd Amendment for a moment. Lets park that to one side.

Is there a solution?

I don't have one.

You do have an answer.

Just answer the bold with the SUPER BOLD.

Ban guns and make a few exceptions rather than allow guns for all and make few restrictions.

Shit ain't complicated.

 

[BGDave]

You do have an answer.

Just answer the bold with the SUPER BOLD.

Ban guns and make a few exceptions rather than allow guns for all and make few restrictions.

Shit ain't complicated.

Same goes for Canada, right?

 

[forty_three]

Caption time...

View attachment 167127

President Trump throws a roll of paper towels to the mayor of San Juan to help with her "little spill". The president further commented "This is the same brand my Secretary of State used to clean up the Valdez spill".

 

[dash]

The strict gun laws that Australia brought in after their mass shooting tragedy in 1996 has certainly had a positive effect in that country. I doubt that it would ever be adopted in America though for a myriad of reasons that have been hashed and re-hashed time and time again.