Scout's Take - Giants vs. 49ers, Manning vs. Smith

[BINGO]

Scout's take: 49ers, Giants and the QBs - NFC West Blog - ESPN

Matt Williamson: Eli is a much better player, the foundation of that offense. Alex Smith is just a piece. Eli is making a bad offensive line serviceable. They had no Nicks, no Bradshaw last week and he is moving the team with Victor Cruz and Jake Ballard. If Manning and Smith switched teams, the Niners might be the best team in the league with Manning, including better than Green Bay, and the Giants might win two games. Going to New England without Bradshaw and Nix, the Giants would have lost 30-7 if Smith were their quarterback. What those quarterbacks are capable of isn't even close. Smith was not the usual No. 1 overall quarterback in terms of gifts.

And there were people waiting to beat me up when I was saying this 5 years ago. You had regulars who was adamant in their belief that Smith was better than Manning. It was just mind boggling.

 

[BINGO]

Manning is 6-2 with the Gmen but Alex is 7-1 right now.... one gm better?

(not pushing for an Alex Smith thread debate)

So you don't think Eli > Smith

If you had your own franchise, and had a Al Davis / Jerry Jones role with regard to draft day...who would you want your ball club to draft as their franchise QB if they were both available?

 

[CalamityX11]

So you don't think Eli > Smith

If you had your own franchise, and had a Al Davis / Jerry Jones role with regard to draft day...who would you want your ball club to draft as their franchise QB if they were both available?

I've seen the best of Eli and I've seen the worst of Eli... Smith never had Eli's confidence(before this season(also when Eli HAD confidence which isn't consistent either)) or vision(and may never will). Eli has won a SB, he's the better QB.

Who would I draft? My preference is having a QB who can scramble out or make plays with his legs if needed to but not to the extremes of a Vick, Newton, Tebow.... Pocket first but use of legs when needed. I don't want a stiff or a slow poke.

Not knowing what I know now, Eli had the better pedigree coming from a QB family. I would probably end up with Eli then...

 

[BINGO]

I've seen the best of Eli and I've seen the worst of Eli... Smith never had Eli's confidence(before this season(also when Eli HAD confidence which isn't consistent either)) or vision(and may never will). Eli has won a SB, he's the better QB.

Who would I draft? My preference is having a QB who can scramble out or make plays with his legs if needed to but not to the extremes of a Vick, Newton, Tebow.... Pocket first but use of legs when needed. I don't want a stiff or a slow poke.
Not knowing what I know now, Eli had the better pedigree coming from a QB family. I would probably end up with Eli then...

C'mon bro. I asked you a simple question - not the reason why you would draft one over another. Simply Eli or Alex. Who do you want (no need to justify it or state any preference in terms of Vickesque like mobility etc)?!


Nonetheless, you said you would draft Eli then. How about NOW. Knowing what you know now, who would you draft between the two?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

So you don't think Eli > Smith

If you had your own franchise, and had a Al Davis / Jerry Jones role with regard to draft day...who would you want your ball club to draft as their franchise QB if they were both available?

Eli, and today it's not close IMO.

That said, I wouldn't have taken either of them a couple years ago. Eli is putting together his best season by far this year, largely by eliminating the costly mistakes, and may be moving himself into the discussion of elite QBs. But he's sure taken his time getting there. He's also been with his current OC for his entire career, first as his QBs coach and, for the last five years, as his OC. Give Smith that kind of stability and who knows? Eli still has the edge in throwing ability, clearly, but the list of great QBs is not synonymous with those with the strongest arms.

 

[CalamityX11]

C'mon bro. I asked you a simple question - not the reason why you would draft one over another. Simply Eli or Alex. Who do you want (no need to justify it or state any preference in terms of Vickesque like mobility etc)?!


Nonetheless, you said you would draft Eli then. How about NOW. Knowing what you know now, who would you draft between the two?

NO no, that's not true. Had I gone with Alex, people would've slapped me as a homer or whatever. I prefer mobile QBs over stiffys... Alex is a mobile QB where as Eli is not. I went Eli based on family history, had there been no Manning name attached, I would've gone with Smith.

Knowing what I know now, I would go with Alex BECAUSE despite Eli winning a SB and throwing for 300+ a game, I've seen Eli more frantic and less spectacular behind a better OL with better weapons than Alex ever had... Alex had his poor moments, but he was constantly changing OCs(questionable ones NOT GOOD ones cause WHERE ARE THEY NOW?(other than Turner who opted for HC)). Alex with a real HC with offense pedigry has shown he can play and be a reliable option to this point in the season. Not to mention there's more than enough weapons for his disposal that he shouldn't have any excuses.

My inital reply to the OP was for that really how much would Eli do for a 7-1 team? go 8-0, sure ok but that's it? Also Eli(119) has thrown more picks than Alex(55) into their careers. Sure the attempts heavily favor Eli but should that be ignored?

 

[Flyingiguana]

elli has turned it on this year. everyone laughed at him for saying that he should be considered among the elite qb's, but he's backing it up big time.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

From Cosell on the game and on Eli:

Greg Cosell breaks down the Niners matchup with the Giants - Inside the 49ers

Interesting they've been playing so much big nickel lately (remember when Nolan used that effectively against the Hawks once, and then kept using it in subsequent games even though they had clearly caught on to it?). It will be interesting to see how they approach this game. Obviously that's not an ideal package against a team like the Niners. It's also interesting that he seems somewhat lukewarm on Manning.

 

[threelittleturds]

I'm really surprised anyone would want Alex over Eli. Alex is finally playing well, but the gap between him and the elite QBs is still as large as it ever was. He's doing well for the 49ers and doing what the team needs from him to win games, like throwing the winning TD pass on 4th and goal... or putting together that 3rd quarter in the Eagles game to come back from a big deficit. It's great that he's stepping up this year and helping the team win when they need him to be on, but if I had the choice of Alex or Eli, I'd take Eli without hesitation.

 

[southbaysportsfan]

Eli, and today it's not close IMO.

It is now Eli and was 5 years ago, but I would say its a lot closer now then it was 5 years ago. Eli is still leaps and bounds better, but to me it closer than it was previously(only because Alex was so bad)

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Eli, and today it's not close IMO.

It is now Eli and was 5 years ago, but I would say its a lot closer now then it was 5 years ago. Eli is still leaps and bounds better, but to me it closer than it was previously(only because Alex was so bad)

I don't disagree with that. My point was simply that Eli wasn't very good a few years ago. He was still much better than Smith, even then.

That said, I don't know that it is much closer now because for the first time, we're seeing Eli carry his team. This is the first year that he is succeeding without a top-10 rushing offense (since his rookie season, the only year the Giants were out of the top-10 in rushing they went 8-8). He is driving that offense in a way that he hasn't before, and they've had success.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I was looking at the G's schedule, and it struck me that they really haven't faced many (any?) good defensive teams. They have faced the 12th, 13th, 16th, 24th (tie between two teams they've played) 26th, 28th, and 32nd Ds in terms of yardage, 7th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 20th, 22nd, 23rd, and 29th in terms of points. Washington is the best D they've faced, and they only posted 14 points in a loss in that one (I also think that, while the Skins' D is pretty solid, they look better because teams don't have to score much to beat them).

Not throwing this out there because I think it indicates in any way that they will be an easy team to beat up on, but I think our D can give them some problems. Especially if Justin and Ray have good games. I'm praying they try to spread the field and let us go with our nickel D. I think their OL will struggle with our four-man front.

 

[deep9er]

I was looking at the G's schedule, and it struck me that they really haven't faced many (any?) good defensive teams. They have faced the 12th, 13th, 16th, 24th (tie between two teams they've played) 26th, 28th, and 32nd Ds in terms of yardage, 7th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 20th, 22nd, 23rd, and 29th in terms of points. Washington is the best D they've faced, and they only posted 14 points in a loss in that one (I also think that, while the Skins' D is pretty solid, they look better because teams don't have to score much to beat them).

Not throwing this out there because I think it indicates in any way that they will be an easy team to beat up on, but I think our D can give them some problems. Especially if Justin and Ray have good games. I'm praying they try to spread the field and let us go with our nickel D. I think their OL will struggle with our four-man front.

assuming the turnover battle is even.................if Eli is sharp, they win. if not, we do.

 

[CalamityX11]

I was looking at the G's schedule, and it struck me that they really haven't faced many (any?) good defensive teams. They have faced the 12th, 13th, 16th, 24th (tie between two teams they've played) 26th, 28th, and 32nd Ds in terms of yardage, 7th, 10th, 14th, 18th, 20th, 22nd, 23rd, and 29th in terms of points. Washington is the best D they've faced, and they only posted 14 points in a loss in that one (I also think that, while the Skins' D is pretty solid, they look better because teams don't have to score much to beat them).

Not throwing this out there because I think it indicates in any way that they will be an easy team to beat up on, but I think our D can give them some problems. Especially if Justin and Ray have good games. I'm praying they try to spread the field and let us go with our nickel D. I think their OL will struggle with our four-man front.

and they haven't exactly blown out their competition by any means(not like we've done so either)..... It's a Playoff teaser... A Playoff Preview... A Playoff appetizer... A Playoff to the Playoffs..... we're going to see a real good game.

A game that will tell where either team stands IMO. Our first was at Det, theirs was last week in NE...

 

[CalamityX11]

assuming the turnover battle is even.................if Eli is sharp, they win. if not, we do.

IF Eli gets his yards, does that equate to TDs???

they can have 4 redzone trips, however, if that 4 trips meant 4 FGs, then we need to TDs to be in the lead....

Yards wise, we aren't the greatest(run excluded), but pts wise, we're anacondas! lol

 

[deep9er]

IF Eli gets his yards, does that equate to TDs???

they can have 4 redzone trips, however, if that 4 trips meant 4 FGs, then we need to TDs to be in the lead....

Yards wise, we aren't the greatest(run excluded), but pts wise, we're anacondas! lol

IMO yes. he may not throw for all the TD's, but if he's sharp they win.

i get the FG's and we're anaconda's, but for this game thats my opinion.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Alex is finally playing well, but the gap between him and the elite QBs is still as large as it ever was.

But we're not talking about an elite QB.....we're talking about Eli Manning.

Guys, don't get so far ahead of yourselves based on a half-season......just like Smith is getting too much praise for his improvement, I don't think anyone should be looking at Eli and saying he's turned a corner or made a leap. He threw 25 INTs LAST YEAR.....if he keeps this up, sure. He's never been elite and isn't yet from what I've seen. Credit for these increases in QB efficiency have to be spread around, from the QB to the play-caller to the o-line and WRs, to everyone else involved. Team sport.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Alex Smith doesn't really have to prove that much in this one. He'll just continue doing his thing and manage the game. Try to be invisible as possible and take sacks/incompletions over INT's until we find ourselves down by two scores. Even if that's the case we're still not going to abandon the run, like how we used Gore in the second half against Phi.

This is a very big game for Eli to show what he can do against a good defense this year as he keeps climbing towards that elite status. More pressure's on him in this one so hopefully he comes back down to earth and throw a pick or four. We've got to knock the snot out of him early and make him work all day.

These QB's are asked to do two completely different things right now.

 

[imac_21]

assuming the turnover battle is even.................if Eli is sharp, they win. if not, we do.

That's unfortunate that our team really has no say in the outcome of the game. I guess we better hope Eli has an off day.

 

[Flyingiguana]

i think we match up very well against the giants. if the giants get the lead, we'll be in trouble, but i expect a lot of gore.