Saban & Bielema behind the kill uptempo offense rule

[trojanfan12]

Although I could see it happening in a single year as an anomaly I would love to see where this information came from and go read it! Can anyone help or was it pulled out of thin air?

3rd time link has been posted on this thread:

Speed Kills or Does Slow Get You Hurt? -

 

[Bamabino]

Although I could see it happening in a single year as an anomaly I would love to see where this information came from and go read it! Can anyone help or was it pulled out of thin air?

I question whether these starts lost to injury are all in-game injuries or do they include practice field injuries.

 

[BamaTee1]

Here's how this thread went down
1) People saying they don't like the proposed rule. Expressing their doubt about it's legitimacy and displeasure on how it was presented.
2) People doubting the coaches promoting that message, and thinks it's for other reasons than the ones that are stated.
3) Alabama fans coming to the defense of the guy sending the perceived bogus message.
4) Alabama fans trying to justify the message, but every other fan is not buying it.
5) Alabama fans resort to name calling and insults. Twice as many insults about Alabama***
6) Alabama fans putting down the programs of other fans in an attempt to tell others to shut up.
7) Alabama fans getting their feelings hurt and defending their actions by saying people attack them and their team even though they brought it on themselves. Can you really read? At least comprehensively?

Did I leave anything out???

This post is funny!!! I love your objectivity!!!

*** I would say there is more insults about Alabama than by them because there are more non-Alabama fans in here but that argument was thrown out when no one agrees more plays mean more injuries or should I say they think more plays mean less injuries!

 

[Codaxx]

I've already read where you said the players are tired so don't run as fast and hit as hard yet everything I've EVER heard in all my sport years is being tired, fatigued, out of breath, shape, etc. is going to increase your odds for injuries? I almost got hurt falling down laughing. Intelligent people can justify anything!

Slower power up close hitting is going to create less injuries than full speed with distances between players. Ex: players get hurt all the time in punt and kick offs because players have more speed at contact. DB's and LB's running at full speed on short passes is going to create more blunt force than the other. Codaxx I will bet my life that taking any decent years of history more plays (HUNH) is going to have more injuries. With all those other factors or not! You would too except it goes against your position on this issue, so it aint happening!

BTW, safety is only one issue of all this. There is the issue of bringing defense back into the game. Don't tell me HUNH is the sole reason scores have significantly spiked over the years. There hasn't been enough teams or years this has been around to create that spike. It has been all the restrictions on defense and the loosening of rules on offense that has done more of the damage. Adding all that and no time to rest or substitute has just been a contributor!

This same committee is looking at recommending officials start calling the holding and downfield blocking when it happens instead of being lax with those rules since rule changes made them easier. That alone would slow down offenses more than any of this!

Just one data pt. I do believe some safety is achieved through spreading out the field. Tackling in space tends to be much less violent. OL tend to be the worst suffers of long term head injuries. That is the result of repetitive head trauma. That completely flies in the face of your slow player theory. other issued have been similarly dismissed in this thread multiple times. Scores going up is a separate issue. The question is this a good change based on logic and data? I say no

 

[BamaTee1]

3rd time link has been posted on this thread:

Speed Kills or Does Slow Get You Hurt? -

First time I even clicked on it because I don't need to. First of all half the teams don't even release injury reports. I know Alabama doesn't. Do any? You might know someone is on the sideline not playing but you have no clue to why. Does USC release their injuries? Pretty sure that's goes against HIPPA and I don't think any University wants to be sued. Not sure why I haven't thought of this before with regards to this stupid data! There is absolutely no way this stupid report showing injuries for HUNH and slow play L) is even close to complete!!!
I go back to my more plays = more injuries! The medical association would back my formula before they would come close to backing this junk!

 

[BamaTee1]

I question whether these starts lost to injury are all in-game injuries or do they include practice field injuries.

This^^^^^^^!!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

First time I even clicked on it because I don't need to. First of all half the teams don't even release injury reports. I know Alabama doesn't. Do any? You might know someone is on the sideline not playing but you have no clue to why. Does USC release their injuries? Pretty sure that's goes against HIPPA and I don't think any University wants to be sued. Not sure why I haven't thought of this before with regards to this stupid data! There is absolutely no way this stupid report showing injuries for HUNH and slow play L) is even close to complete!!!
I go back to my more plays = more injuries! The medical association would back my formula before they would come close to backing this junk!

Where is your data to back up your point? Whether you agree with the findings of the report or not, the fact is that a report was made and it doesn't back up your opinion.

Where is the link for a report that backs your opinion?

 

[MarkOU]

The ball is set and ready for play but you got to count to ten before you snap it.

That's great but why stop there?

I purpose that after the ball is snapped defenders must count to 10 before they can pass the line of scrimmage. The offense must be given time to identify who they will block so we can avoid injuries.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Bamatee is Harvey Updyke. I am convinced of it and I do not have any data to back it up. It is common sense folks. There is just too much Bama in him. Roll Tide!!!

 

[charlie42s]

Common sense isn't always right.

Since you are an educated man, I'll assume you know about the game of chess.
#1 Queens are move valuable than pawns, but there are times when a player sacrifices their queen for a pawn to gain a winning advantage.
#2 The way to win chess is to capture more of your opponents pieces than they do yours. Yet, there a strategy called the "poisoned pawn", where if you capture the 'pawn' you it costs you the game.

In both of these situations, unknowingly following common sense doesn't work.

 

[potzer25]

First time I even clicked on it because I don't need to. First of all half the teams don't even release injury reports. I know Alabama doesn't. Do any? You might know someone is on the sideline not playing but you have no clue to why. Does USC release their injuries? Pretty sure that's goes against HIPPA and I don't think any University wants to be sued. Not sure why I haven't thought of this before with regards to this stupid data! There is absolutely no way this stupid report showing injuries for HUNH and slow play L) is even close to complete!!!
I go back to my more plays = more injuries! The medical association would back my formula before they would come close to backing this junk!

Wow. You guys are blind homers that will defend anything.

How many less plays will this rule change allow? According to thread: ZERO, because HUNH teams don't snap the ball before 10 seconds after the last play anyway.

So to recap: your argument is bullshit. Still.

This is changing the game to favor your coach's playstyle for bullshit reasons that he has publicly put out there for consideration. Explain it away however you like but the reason - player safety - is not backed up by the data or common sense. In fact, the opposite is true: this is all about wanting to put the freshest, heaviest possible guys on defense every play that would more likely lead to injury.

 

[BTHOtu]

Once in a blue moon, I agree with Coda and Charlie. I'm a numbers guy. I solve problems for a living. I don't knee jerk my way into a solution. I always look at the data first. The data will point toward solving the real problem instead of wasting time on putting band aids on the symptoms or the problem. Let's apply this problem in the 6 Sigma DMAIC Format:

Define: Injuries attributed to Hurry Up Offense

Measure:

Top 15 ‘Fast’ Teams in AQ Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 81.2
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 88
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 5.87
Average Starts Lost per Play: .072​

Top 15 ‘Slow’ Teams in AQ Football 2012
Average Plays per Game: 66.2
Total Starts Lost to Injury: 112
Average Number of Starts Lost Per Team: 7.50
Average Starts Lost per Play: .113

Analise:
There are actually less injuries attributed to Hurry Up compared to Traditional

Improve:
Leaner and more conditioned players on the defensive side of the ball that can endure more snaps with out rotating.
Better Scheming.

Control:
Recruiting
Conditioning
Defensive Play Calling
​

 

[charlie42s]

Here's a different example and it's intended to be silly.

Tap a wall with your head and it would be very unusual to get injured. Ram into it with your head and you will get injured.

 

[BamaTee1]

Where is your data to back up your point? Whether you agree with the findings of the report or not, the fact is that a report was made and it doesn't back up your opinion.

Where is the link for a report that backs your opinion?

I have my son's comic book of Superman. It's about this guy who's Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

I don't have any data against it so he must be something to see!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Probably the smartest thing that Lane Kiffin ever said as a head coach was on this topic. He said that it warrants a conversation. He didn't advocate a change in the rule, but said it's worthy of conversation.


It seems to me that the smartest thing to do would be to have a study over a few seasons (larger sample size) and see what the data says. If it shows that there are more injuries as a result of uptempo offenses, then change the rule. If the evidence shows otherwise, then leave it alone.

 

[charlie42s]

Somebody has lost it. ie: that Bama poster.

 

[occupant]

What's terribly funny about this is that Nicky snapped the ball, WITH OVER 30 SECONDS ON THE PLAY CLOCK, in the final 25 seconds of the first half of the Sugar Bowl to take advantage of OU subbing players on defense...resulting in OU getting a penalty.

Be careful what you wish for Little Nicky...

This is like McDonalds trying to pass laws keeping smaller burger places from serving burgers faster than them.

There is no way this rule change gets implemented.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have my son's comic book of Superman. It's about this guy who's Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

I don't have any data against it so he must be something to see!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

I have my son's comic book of Superman. It's about this guy who's Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

I don't have any data against it so he must be something to see!!!

Translation = Coach Saban says so. That's all the proof I need.

 

[Codaxx]

I have my son's comic book of Superman. It's about this guy who's Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

I don't have any data against it so he must be something to see!!!

That would almost be interesting if it was applicable. There is no data on Superman. There is data on tempi and injuries.