Rookies

[CitySushi]

The problem is I am sure the Wolves will still manage to screw this up at some point.

Saunders dying was awful on so many levels. But from the basketball perspective, it is just devastating. Our owner Taylor is a basketball moron who makes obvious decisions 3 years after the fact that it was obvious. He needs to bring in a guy like Saunders who can guide this young core and more important make the hard choices in the coming offseasons that will have to be made. But he will hem and haw until all the tough choices are made by inexperienced guys instead of bringing in a more qualified person until after it is all too late.

...
Here is a thought that I can't get out of my mind:
What if the Wolves win a top 2 pick in this draft.

They are currently #5 and the absolutely worst they could end up is #6. Seems like a long shot but look at the last 11 years and 7 of the 11 winners have actually come from the 5th spot or worse.

What an embarrassment of young talent they would have at that point. And they STILL would find a way to screw it up!

You also need a good head coach that can coach these guys up. I'm not a believer in Sam Mitchell. You have a really nice core 4 of Lavine, Wiggins, Dieng and KAT. I would try to package either Rubio/Pek/1st RD to get a nice player or two that could help compete immediately.

 

[ducky]

You also need a good head coach that can coach these guys up. I'm not a believer in Sam Mitchell. You have a really nice core 4 of Lavine, Wiggins, Dieng and KAT. I would try to package either Rubio/Pek/1st RD to get a nice player or two that could help compete immediately.

Everyone talks about Rubio being part of what is going out but IMO it is more likely that any big trade centers around Levine and that 1st rounder than Rubio and the 1st rounder.

Simple fact is that all these guys get massive raises coming up in the next couple of years. Add another expensive piece by moving Rubio with the 1st round pick and in 2 or 3 years there would be no way to fit all these guys onto the same roster. Get rid of one of the guys that is due for a massive raise in Lavine and keep a price controlled guy like Rubio (decent contract now and not likely to go up the next time around because of his limitations) and then you can keep the roster together for years moving forward.

The Pek contract the Wolves are just going to have to eat. It has way too much negative value in a trade to throw in. Add that contract in and it would be like subtracting two 1st rounders from what the Wolves would be getting back in return.

Just to give you an idea: IMO if the Wolves packaged just Rubio and Pek together and no other assets, no other team would even give them a 2nd rounder for that package without the Wolves throwing in a future 1st rounder.

But yeah coach is #1 priority. I'm hoping for Thibs personally. Get these kids playing some D.

 

[CitySushi]

Everyone talks about Rubio being part of what is going out but IMO it is more likely that any big trade centers around Levine and that 1st rounder than Rubio and the 1st rounder.

Simple fact is that all these guys get massive raises coming up in the next couple of years. Add another expensive piece by moving Rubio with the 1st round pick and in 2 or 3 years there would be no way to fit all these guys onto the same roster. Get rid of one of the guys that is due for a massive raise in Lavine and keep a price controlled guy like Rubio (decent contract now and not likely to go up the next time around because of his limitations) and then you can keep the roster together for years moving forward.

The Pek contract the Wolves are just going to have to eat. It has way too much negative value in a trade to throw in. Add that contract in and it would be like subtracting two 1st rounders from what the Wolves would be getting back in return.

Just to give you an idea: IMO if the Wolves packaged just Rubio and Pek together and no other assets, no other team would even give them a 2nd rounder for that package without the Wolves throwing in a future 1st rounder.

But yeah coach is #1 priority. I'm hoping for Thibs personally. Get these kids playing some D.

Worrying about paying massive raises in 3 years is kind of putting the cart before the horse. If they are in line for huge raises, chances are they deserve it. Which in turn will be likely because of better production.

Lavine is on his rookie contract and I believe at minimum controlled for another 2 years, including RFA afterwards retaining his rights.

Rubio has already hit his peak. Lavine's ceiling is yet to be determined but his improvement from year 1 to year 2 has been phenomenal. The only way I would trade Lavine is if you're getting a star player in return.

 

[ducky]

Rubio has already hit his peak. Lavine's ceiling is yet to be determined but his improvement from year 1 to year 2 has been phenomenal. The only way I would trade Lavine is if you're getting a star player in return.

...my theory is that the Wolves would package our 1st rounder this year and Lavine.

With that package, depending where the pick ends up, we could be looking at one hell of a player in return.

Lavine is nice is going to be better. But defensively the guy is a trainwreck. His ceiling IMO is a high flying Kevin Martin.

But it has been hard to gauge him as the Wolves have played him out of position for the 1st year and a half in the league. Up until the last month or so they have always played him at PG. They finally moved him to SG when they moved him into the starting lineup after the All Star break. That's the Wolves for you: It took a dunk contest to convince them to finally move a good young player to his correct position.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

You also need a good head coach that can coach these guys up. I'm not a believer in Sam Mitchell. You have a really nice core 4 of Lavine, Wiggins, Dieng and KAT. I would try to package either Rubio/Pek/1st RD to get a nice player or two that could help compete immediately.

They should hire Thibs

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

...my theory is that the Wolves would package our 1st rounder this year and Lavine.

With that package, depending where the pick ends up, we could be looking at one hell of a player in return.

Lavine is nice is going to be better. But defensively the guy is a trainwreck. His ceiling IMO is a high flying Kevin Martin.

But it has been hard to gauge him as the Wolves have played him out of position for the 1st year and a half in the league. Up until the last month or so they have always played him at PG. They finally moved him to SG when they moved him into the starting lineup after the All Star break. That's the Wolves for you: It took a dunk contest to convince them to finally move a good young player to his correct position.

How dare you, Sir!

He's never gonna win DPOY, make and all defensive Teams.

But, Martin? HARSH!.....Even Steve Nash would be offended.

Lavine could be a good defender if he stopped thinking about the high light reel.

Sadly, he can't.

 

[CitySushi]

...my theory is that the Wolves would package our 1st rounder this year and Lavine.

With that package, depending where the pick ends up, we could be looking at one hell of a player in return.

Lavine is nice is going to be better. But defensively the guy is a trainwreck. His ceiling IMO is a high flying Kevin Martin.

But it has been hard to gauge him as the Wolves have played him out of position for the 1st year and a half in the league. Up until the last month or so they have always played him at PG. They finally moved him to SG when they moved him into the starting lineup after the All Star break. That's the Wolves for you: It took a dunk contest to convince them to finally move a good young player to his correct position.

Definitely. I wasn't thinking about the return, but more so what core to build around. I think you might be right in that trading Lavine may be the best way to go if you could land a big time player.

 

[ducky]

How dare you, Sir!

He's never gonna win DPOY, make and all defensive Teams.

But, Martin? HARSH!.....Even Steve Nash would be offended.

Lavine could be a good defender if he stopped thinking about the high light reel.

Sadly, he can't.

It is crazy that a guy of his athleticism wouldn't be a good defender. But that is the way it goes sometimes. Just not a really high basketball IQ is the biggest problem really. Just lost in rotations all the time and is easily fooled into jumping....and when you jump as high as him, getting fooled and jumping makes it hard to recover because he is the air so damn long!

Both him and Wiggins are actually bad defenders (most fans think Wiggins is good defensively just from draft hype...its not true). It's why I want a defensive coach like Thibs. This team has enough talent that offense is going to happen no matter what. What they need is a coach willing to work on defense 1st and foremost.

The Wolves are kind of stuck a little right now. Ideally they would keep this exact roster together and figure out their moves after next offseason after a year with a good coach and a little more development. But that 1st rounder we have is one of the biggest tradable assets and the moment that we make the draft pick, the value of it drops by half if not more (unless we get a top 2 pick).

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

It is crazy that a guy of his athleticism wouldn't be a good defender. But that is the way it goes sometimes. Just not a really high basketball IQ is the biggest problem really. Just lost in rotations all the time and is easily fooled into jumping....and when you jump as high as him, getting fooled and jumping makes it hard to recover because he is the air so damn long!

Both him and Wiggins are actually bad defenders (most fans think Wiggins is good defensively just from draft hype...its not true). It's why I want a defensive coach like Thibs. This team has enough talent that offense is going to happen no matter what. What they need is a coach willing to work on defense 1st and foremost.

The Wolves are kind of stuck a little right now. Ideally they would keep this exact roster together and figure out their moves after next offseason after a year with a good coach and a little more development. But that 1st rounder we have is one of the biggest tradable assets and the moment that we make the draft pick, the value of it drops by half if not more (unless we get a top 2 pick).

Agree with everything you stated.

Thibs would be great.

Lots of talk about trading Rubio.

I don't see how that is possible if the guy up next is Lavine.

I don't see him as a pg.

He is a short 2.

If he was handed the keys to the offense, he'd make Kyrie Irving look like John Stockton.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

But according to hurricane, Mudiay is still better.

The only reason being because he plays for the nuggets.

OK numbnuts, did I ever say that Mudiay was having a better rookie season than Russell? No? Good then.

Of all of Russell's stats, the one that holds the most meaning to me is 15-54 - His team's record, and that is in spite of one of the so-called "10 greatest players in NBA history" mentoring him.

Mudiay's shooting mechanics are good. His stance is not. But, he's only 20 and with time, experience, and coaching, he can and will get better.

You can have Russell's better individual performance. But we have a better coach, better system, better organization, and better team, while your team is still tanking for that "maybe" prize in the draft or free agency like it's been doing the last three years.

Good talk.

*Awaits your next blanket one-line response*

 

[lakersrule]

OK numbnuts, did I ever say that Mudiay was having a better rookie season than Russell? No? Good then.

Of all of Russell's stats, the one that holds the most meaning to me is 15-54 - His team's record, and that is in spite of one of the so-called "10 greatest players in NBA history" mentoring him.

Mudiay's shooting mechanics are good. His stance is not. But, he's only 20 and with time, experience, and coaching, he can and will get better.

You can have Russell's better individual performance. But we have a better coach, better system, better organization, and better team, while your team is still tanking for that "maybe" prize in the draft or free agency like it's been doing the last three years.

Good talk.

*Awaits your next blanket one-line response*

Congratulations to Denver for being so much better than the Lakers. You must be proud Cane.

 

[ducky]

Of all of Russell's stats, the one that holds the most meaning to me is 15-54 - His team's record, and that is in spite of one of the so-called "10 greatest players in NBA history" mentoring him.

There have been maybe 5 NBA players in the last 30 years of the sport that were win-positive players as rookies.

If you put together a team of Steph Curry, Kobe, Carmelo, KG and Dwight Howard as all rookies on the same squad, that is a team that doesn't even sniff a 500 record.

Rookies are too bad defensively and too inefficient offensively to be positive players in the win column.

It is what is so hilarious about the theory of tanking. It takes at least a couple years before most players become positive players in regards to win totals. Well if you start to tank like the 76er's have, there is no way they start winning before the first wave of young players have all become FA's and move on because they are sick of losing.

 

[WiggyRuss]

There have been maybe 5 NBA players in the last 30 years of the sport that were win-positive players as rookies.

If you put together a team of Steph Curry, Kobe, Carmelo, KG and Dwight Howard as all rookies on the same squad, that is a team that doesn't even sniff a 500 record.

Rookies are too bad defensively and too inefficient offensively to be positive players in the win column.

It is what is so hilarious about the theory of tanking. It takes at least a couple years before most players become positive players in regards to win totals. Well if you start to tank like the 76er's have, there is no way they start winning before the first wave of young players have all become FA's and move on because they are sick of losing.

Kyrie was AMAZING as a rookie...just saying!

really good posts though Ducky - i liked and appreciated them all.

my biggest surprise has been Wiggins lack of defensive prowess for sure....I thought he would be a stud- but its obviously not his focus at this point.

 

[ChrisGar15]

Agree with everything you stated.
Thibs would be great.
Lots of talk about trading Rubio.
I don't see how that is possible if the guy up next is Lavine.
I don't see him as a pg.
He is a short 2.
If he was handed the keys to the offense, he'd make Kyrie Irving look like John Stockton.

Why wouldn't the Wolves keep the pick and take either Murray or Hield ? They really need shooting -- and one of them would fix that hole. Wiggins would have to play SF.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

OK numbnuts, did I ever say that Mudiay was having a better rookie season than Russell? No? Good then.

Of all of Russell's stats, the one that holds the most meaning to me is 15-54 - His team's record, and that is in spite of one of the so-called "10 greatest players in NBA history" mentoring him.

Mudiay's shooting mechanics are good. His stance is not. But, he's only 20 and with time, experience, and coaching, he can and will get better.

You can have Russell's better individual performance. But we have a better coach, better system, better organization, and better team, while your team is still tanking for that "maybe" prize in the draft or free agency like it's been doing the last three years.

Good talk.

*Awaits your next blanket one-line response*

Yes, the nuggets are a much better team. They'll do great in the playoffs...

We're in line to get Simmons or Ingram, the nuggets are in line to be #10 in the West

Want to take bets on which teams future is brighter?

 

[trojanfan12]

OK numbnuts, did I ever say that Mudiay was having a better rookie season than Russell? No? Good then.

Of all of Russell's stats, the one that holds the most meaning to me is 15-54 - His team's record, and that is in spite of one of the so-called "10 greatest players in NBA history" mentoring him.

Mudiay's shooting mechanics are good. His stance is not. But, he's only 20 and with time, experience, and coaching, he can and will get better.

You can have Russell's better individual performance. But we have a better coach, better system, better organization, and better team, while your team is still tanking for that "maybe" prize in the draft or free agency like it's been doing the last three years.

Good talk.

*Awaits your next blanket one-line response*

They are both very good and I think both are potential stars. They are both very young too. They are also different players. I think that Russell is the better shooter and so far, seems to have better court vision. He also doesn't turn the ball over much, even for a rookie.

Mudiay is a better athlete, has better handles and can get to the rim anytime he wants.

As I posted earlier, as a Lakers fan, I'm happy with what I've seen from Russell so far. If the Lakers had gotten Mudiay, or I was a Nuggets fan, I'm pretty sure that I'd be happy with what I've seen from Mudiay so far too.

I can't wait until these guys have been in the league for 3-4 years, have a better rosters around them and are going head to head 4-5 times a season. Should be a lot of fun.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Yes, the nuggets are a much better team. They'll do great in the playoffs...

We're in line to get Simmons or Ingram, the nuggets are in line to be #10 in the West

Want to take bets on which teams future is brighter?

You could get lucky and get Simmons, but how's that approach working for Philly the last few years?

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Congratulations to Denver for being so much better than the Lakers. You must be proud Cane.

Thank you.