Roll Call for NY Yankees Fans

[navamind]

I'm not gonna hi jack the thread but I will tell you without hesitation the role of a closer is the single most overrated job in sports today. Saves are a completely meaningless stat that measure absolutely zero. "closing the door" in the playoffs is wildly overstated. A closer in this day and age has to do nothing but get 3 outs while walking in the door with no one on base and enjoying a lead as much as 3 runs. Most SS can walk in and do that on any given day. It simply is a joke that fools fewer people everyday.

I love the way they're using Betances. Use him like they did with Mo in '96

 

[steveringo]

I'm not gonna hi jack the thread but I will tell you without hesitation the role of a closer is the single most overrated job in sports today. Saves are a completely meaningless stat that measure absolutely zero. "closing the door" in the playoffs is wildly overstated. A closer in this day and age has to do nothing but get 3 outs while walking in the door with no one on base and enjoying a lead as much as 3 runs. Most SS can walk in and do that on any given day. It simply is a joke that fools fewer people everyday.

Agree with you 100%.

Unfortunately, teams will always seek a closer - because relievers like to have rolls. And (sadly) the closer will be used primarily in 'save' situations - just because that stat exists.

Waste.

 

[navamind]

I'm sure a few teams could use Jim Johnson. After all, he's a Proven Closer™.

 

[Loneranger]

Agree with you 100%.

Unfortunately, teams will always seek a closer - because relievers like to have rolls. And (sadly) the closer will be used primarily in 'save' situations - just because that stat exists.

Waste.

you make a good point about relievers wanting roles , these guys are largely headcases which is why they're in the 'pen to begin with. The younger fans today don't even realize every single reliever in the game is a failed starter. The 'pen is where these guys go. Once they get there they've got to have a "role" or they can't even warm up. The biggest collection of fuck ups in sports today. A smart mgr. would not have a "closer" ever. He would make the decision based on how the game is going , who's coming up and who's been throwing well etc. I'd much rather have an opponent not knowing who's coming then having them know before they even get to town.

 

[steveringo]

you make a good point about relievers wanting roles , these guys are largely headcases which is why they're in the 'pen to begin with. The younger fans today don't even realize every single reliever in the game is a failed starter. The 'pen is where these guys go. Once they get there they've got to have a "role" or they can't even warm up. The biggest collection of fuck ups in sports today. A smart mgr. would not have a "closer" ever. He would make the decision based on how the game is going , who's coming up and who's been throwing well etc. I'd much rather have an opponent not knowing who's coming then having them know before they even get to town.

My advice would be to name someone the closer, but tell him he isn't getting many saves - he is coming in when the game is on the line.... I hate when games are lost in the 7th when two relievers walk the bases loaded (down by one run), and the manager brings in the next fuck-up becaus he's saving the closer for the 9th....

 

[CSD]

I'm not gonna hi jack the thread but I will tell you without hesitation the role of a closer is the single most overrated job in sports today. Saves are a completely meaningless stat that measure absolutely zero. "closing the door" in the playoffs is wildly overstated. A closer in this day and age has to do nothing but get 3 outs while walking in the door with no one on base and enjoying a lead as much as 3 runs. Most SS can walk in and do that on any given day. It simply is a joke that fools fewer people everyday.

So Mariano Rivera wouldn't be on your hall of fame ballot?

 

[navamind]

I would vote for Rivera, but as far as RPs go, that's about it. Depends on whether you consider Eckersley as a SP (about 3/4 of his innings came as a starter). I do think Eck was overrated as a relief pitcher (though his first 6 years were still pretty good), but he was underrated as a starter.

 

[navamind]

Eck winning MVP (and CYA) in '92 was beyond ridiculous. If you were going to give MVP to a pitcher, give it to Clemens or Mussina (either of them should have won the CYA). Puckett, Alomar, Big Hurt, McGwire, and Edgar Martinez among others had much better cases.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

My advice would be to name someone the closer, but tell him he isn't getting many saves - he is coming in when the game is on the line.... I hate when games are lost in the 7th when two relievers walk the bases loaded (down by one run), and the manager brings in the next fuck-up becaus he's saving the closer for the 9th....

I understand what you are saying, but the idea of a closer still makes sense... Its your best relief pitcher!!! how can you take the ball out of his hands and then give to a lesser guy... that is just counter productive... and that is why they are meant to be the last pitcher to pitch in a game... and to say it is EASY(loneranger), to get a save consistently is not an easy task!!!

 

[navamind]

I understand what you are saying, but the idea of a closer still makes sense... Its your best relief pitcher!!! how can you take the ball out of his hands and then give to a lesser guy... that is just counter productive... and that is why they are meant to be the last pitcher to pitch in a game... and to say it is EASY(loneranger), to get a save consistently is not an easy task!!!

In a lot of cases, a team's closer isn't actually their best relief pitcher.

 

[Loneranger]

So Mariano Rivera wouldn't be on your hall of fame ballot?

not a chance. What exactly does he go to the HoF for? Ya think Rivera could have been a closer like we had back in the 70's ? LMAO. Tell Rivera or any of these guys to go in the game with 1 out in the 7th , runners on 2nd and 3rd , up by one run .... then tell him he's expected to finish the game. Get back to me after you talk to Rivera or even Jason Grilli for that matter.

 

[CSD]

In a lot of cases, a team's closer isn't actually their best relief pitcher.

This is true, case in point for the Yankees now as Betances is the best in the bullpen.

 

[CSD]

not a chance. What exactly does he go to the HoF for? Ya think Rivera could have been a closer like we had back in the 70's ? LMAO. Tell Rivera or any of these guys to go in the game with 1 out in the 7th , runners on 2nd and 3rd , up by one run .... then tell him he's expected to finish the game. Get back to me after you talk to Rivera or even Jason Grilli for that matter.

Lol ok. No sense in wasting my time with a response when his stats speak for themself.

 

[Loneranger]

I understand what you are saying, but the idea of a closer still makes sense... Its your best relief pitcher!!! how can you take the ball out of his hands and then give to a lesser guy... that is just counter productive... and that is why they are meant to be the last pitcher to pitch in a game... and to say it is EASY(loneranger), to get a save consistently is not an easy task!!!

have you played the game ? I Do you realize this "job" was created by a stat , literally? If a guy can't get 3 outs with no one on base and a lead of 1-3 runs and do it consistently to the point of 99% success then he should play soccer. It simply is not much to ask of anyone. No doubt you're younger and have grown up being told by ESPN and everyone else that this is the biggest job in the game. It isn't.

 

[Loneranger]

Lol ok. No sense in wasting my time with a response when his stats speak for themself.

that's exactly the problem. You can't see any further than a stat that indicates nothing , measures nothing. You've bought into the story this is such an incredible feat that we can hardly believe anyone can even do it once. It's a stat that has no place in the game. What's next , wanna talk about who has the most "holds" ?

 

[Loneranger]

Lol ok. No sense in wasting my time with a response when his stats speak for themself.

didn't think you would want to talk about any of these guys today coming into the game in the 7th and inheriting a mess. You know nothing of that and are googling the piss out of it now trying to learn. Read up and learn about what relievers used to do to make a living. I gotta go get the grill going so enjoy your evening.

 

[CSD]

that's exactly the problem. You can't see any further than a stat that indicates nothing , measures nothing. You've bought into the story this is such an incredible feat that we can hardly believe anyone can even do it once. It's a stat that has no place in the game. What's next , wanna talk about who has the most "holds" ?

There is only 5 relievers in the HOF, and I'd say three of them are questionable. Given the limited contributions made by relievers, the bar for induction is pretty darn high. You honestly don't think Rivera clears that bar? Think about who we're talking about here..

He's thrown 141 postseason innings, and posted a 0.70 ERA. He allowed two HR's. TWO!!!

Sandy Alomar in '97 and Jay Payton in 2000.

Mariano has been brilliant in the postseason. Is that not worth anything to you?

 

[steveringo]

I like the way this thread is heading...

Rivera is a special case.... He was tabbed the closer, and was used by his team the way all teams used their closer. He came in in save situations - and 'saved' games...

Despite the fact that he was misused, he excelled at his job more than anyone put in his position. And for a long time....

His career K/BB is right up there with Pedro Martinez. His WHIP is third only to two guy that played 100 years ago (better than Pedro, Walter, Christy, Trevor, Mordecai, etc)....

Obviously, he would have never made it as a starter, but he did more with two pitches (one?) than anyone in history.... I do think there is a place in the HOF for relievers, and I think Mo should have his own shrine....

 

[steveringo]

I understand what you are saying, but the idea of a closer still makes sense... Its your best relief pitcher!!! how can you take the ball out of his hands and then give to a lesser guy... that is just counter productive... and that is why they are meant to be the last pitcher to pitch in a game... and to say it is EASY(loneranger), to get a save consistently is not an easy task!!!

In a lot of cases, a team's closer isn't actually their best relief pitcher.

It is not counter productive to take the ball out of your closer's hands in many situations. When the bases are loaded with no outs in the 8th, give the bal to the best pitcher. Then start the 9th with anyone else. You will win many more games this way.... Most games are saved in non-'save' situations.... The idea of a closer is excellent. The idea of using him in 'save' situations is moronic.

Thankfully, teams are heading in this direction (I wouldn't say "a lot of cases", yet)... I do think Papelbon will be the last to get "paid" as a closer... Teams are still naming someone a closer, but aren't paying for them.... They are starting with a 'bullpen-by-committee' and letting the pitchers fall into their own rolls...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

have you played the game ? I Do you realize this "job" was created by a stat , literally? If a guy can't get 3 outs with no one on base and a lead of 1-3 runs and do it consistently to the point of 99% success then he should play soccer. It simply is not much to ask of anyone. No doubt you're younger and have grown up being told by ESPN and everyone else that this is the biggest job in the game. It isn't.

I like how passionate you are... But you clearly over exaggerate... Getting a save is not difficult but to have an ERA below 3 and a WHIP below 1.1 is very good, even if you are only pitching one inning at a time... Consistency is the key, and it is very hard to be consistent.. To say otherwise is just foolish...

And again, isn't it counter productive to take out your best pitcher to put in a lesser pitcher when you
did not have to put in your best pitcher yet?? Of course it is!!! that is the whole purpose of saves... Nobody will disagree with you if you are to say that sometimes a 7th inning is more important than the 9th, but if you put your best relief pitcher in the 7th inning, then you have to rely on someone not as good to close the game!!! I can understand not liking the way closers are used, but to not understand why they pitch the 9th is showing how stubborn you are...

I don't disagree that the stat of saves is over-rated, but I do agree with the logic behind the stat...