RG3 and jackson

[Stymietee]

When I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected. I wasn't wrong in anything I said.

Yes you were, at least by insinuation, you've suggested that Jackson's strength is not as a pocket passer when in fact it is!

 

[gkekoa]

Yes you were, at least by insinuation, you've suggested that Jackson's strength is not as a pocket passer when in fact it is!

Jackson’s strength is his athleticism...not his ability in the pocket. To think otherwise is a dream.

 

[Skins2021]

Because im capable of reading. You weren't subtle and you werent trying to be. At least own up to it.

You still haven't justified any of those claims though. Not that I'm surprised.

Im not sure where you're getting any outrage from me on the topic. There clearly wasnt any but i realize you want to see that in order to confirm your world view.

Good for you? I dont think you're very in touch with what a typical college campus and education is like today though.

If you arent high on Lamar Jackson as a prospect then why go to bat for him?

My assumption here is that you believe the criticism Jackson gets is based on racism/stereotypes and you feel that you have an obligation to argue and discredit those claims bc everyone/thing is racist etc. etc. etc. etc.

While I am sure some of it is race related. As there are very ignorant people in this world of all colors, however I havent seen any of that in this thread.

People asking L.J. a former heisman winning QB to run a couple other positional drills because of some glaring flaws in his game is not a cause for social outrage anymore then people asking other former heisman winning QBs Tim Tebow and Eric Crouch to switch positions or Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones etc etc etc.

The world is too damn sensitive.

 

[gkekoa]

Memorable Wonderlic Scores

Well perhaps but certainly not in all cases. Both Marino & Bradshaw had horrible Wonderlic scores. BTW - if you believe that it is important - well - then give credit to Alex Smith in this area - he scored a 40 on this test (& give credit to Kaepernick who scored a 37 - much higher than most).

I have already stated it is a tool. I have already showed what Marino and McNabb had because they were brought up. I won’t go back to Bradshaw who had 13 HOFers surrounding him.

I give Alex Smith and CK credit for a great wonderlic. I never said the wonderlic is the only tool.

Do you think NFL concepts on offense and defense are far more complex than they were in the 70s and 80s? That might help explain Bradshaw and even Marino to an extent.

 

[Ruzious]

Yes you were, at least by insinuation, you've suggested that Jackson's strength is not as a pocket passer when in fact it is!

Damn it, I really like your posts usually, but you're full of shyt here. Every post, I was talking about him as a pro football prospect - not as a HS player and not as a college player - and I think I made that clear. I don't think he'll be a good pocket passer in the NFL - if he's even used that way. That's my opinion, and I own it.

 

[ehb5]

If you arent high on Lamar Jackson as a prospect then why go to bat for him?

My assumption here is that you believe the criticism Jackson gets is based on racism/stereotypes and you feel that you have an obligation to argue and discredit those claims bc everyone/thing is racist etc. etc. etc. etc.

While I am sure some of it is race related. As there are very ignorant people in this world of all colors, however I havent seen any of that in this thread.

People asking L.J. a former heisman winning QB to run a couple other positional drills because of some glaring flaws in his game is not a cause for social outrage anymore then people asking other former heisman winning QBs Tim Tebow and Eric Crouch to switch positions or Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones etc etc etc.

The world is too damn sensitive.

I'm fairly high on jackson. He was my 3rd favorite qb this year. I'd probably take him mid first if i were a QB needy team.

Well your assumptions are wrong. Why would you assume i think everyone and everything is racist? Thats a very strange thing assume about somebody for no discernible reason.

Like you, i imagine race does play in sometimes. But when exactly who can say. And i certainly didn't accuse anybody on this board of doing that. Though I'm sure there are plenty on this site (not board) who i could.

People asking Jackson to try out at other positions is preposterous. Players like Hogan (who came from another sport not another position) Edelman and jones aren't on the same level of players like jackson. Those are wildly different scenarios. Whether he gets asked to switch due to race who knows. Probably varies, i won't presume to know.

 

[ehb5]

Damn it, I really like your posts usually, but you're full of shyt here. Every post, I was talking about him as a pro football prospect - not as a HS player and not as a college player - and I think I made that clear. I don't think he'll be a good pocket passer in the NFL - if he's even used that way. That's my opinion, and I own it.

Why?

He was a pretty good pocket passer in college. Wouldn't that suggest he has a good chance of doing that in the pros?

 

[Stymietee]

Jackson’s strength is his athleticism...not his ability in the pocket. To think otherwise is a dream.

If this is true of him then it 's true of the very best in the history of this league who had the ability to run. Staubach could run, Rogers can run, both are examples of the same thing. Now, I'm not comparing Jackson to either of these guys, just pointing out the selectiveness of such a position on him vs. these guys.

To be clear, Jackson has always been a pocket passer. It was true in high school, true at Louisville, and for better or worse it will be true in the NFL. His athleticism adds a little something extra to his game.

 

[Skins2021]

I'm fairly high on jackson. He was my 3rd favorite qb this year. I'd probably take him mid first if i were a QB needy team.

Well your assumptions are wrong. Why would you assume i think everyone and everything is racist? Thats a very strange thing assume about somebody for no discernible reason.

Like you, i imagine race does play in sometimes. But when exactly who can say. And i certainly didn't accuse anybody on this board of doing that. Though I'm sure there are plenty on this site (not board) who i could.

People asking Jackson to try out at other positions is preposterous. Players like Hogan (who came from another sport not another position) Edelman and jones aren't on the same level of players like jackson. Those are wildly different scenarios. Whether he gets asked to switch due to race who knows. Probably varies, i won't presume to know.

I follow Chris Hogan very closely. Played HS ball against him. I know he played Lacrosse at PSU when he took his 5th year at Monmouth he participated in their pro day where he caught the eye of scouts based off his measurables. He was literally asked to play safety because he was white. He said no. Its killing me I cant find this link with the interview. I'll post when/if I do

Never said you accused but I felt that was the position you were coming from. Maybe some sort of reverse sensitivity is in play. Crazy world.

 

[Stymietee]

Damn it, I really like your posts usually, but you're full of shyt here. Every post, I was talking about him as a pro football prospect - not as a HS player and not as a college player - and I think I made that clear. I don't think he'll be a good pocket passer in the NFL - if he's even used that way. That's my opinion, and I own it.

Great, I totally respect your opinion on him, but answer this, what are the chances that Baltimore will use him as anything other than what he's always been? As a pro football prospect, we'll have to agree to disagree on his future.

 

[Sharkinva]

If you arent high on Lamar Jackson as a prospect then why go to bat for him?

My assumption here is that you believe the criticism Jackson gets is based on racism/stereotypes and you feel that you have an obligation to argue and discredit those claims bc everyone/thing is racist etc. etc. etc. etc.

While I am sure some of it is race related. As there are very ignorant people in this world of all colors, however I havent seen any of that in this thread.

People asking L.J. a former heisman winning QB to run a couple other positional drills because of some glaring flaws in his game is not a cause for social outrage anymore then people asking other former heisman winning QBs Tim Tebow and Eric Crouch to switch positions or Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones etc etc etc.

The world is too damn sensitive.

OK I really tried to stay out of this one, because trying to get some one to admit that what they are saying just might be a bit racist on a sports forum is about a productive is herding cats. But a few things here.

1. The stereotype of the black QB does still exist and is alive and well in the NFL. Even I am guilty of it to a degree. When a black QB in college is mobile, he is an athlete playing QB. Carson Wentz was classified as a QB who happens to be athletic. So there is a double standard.

2. The idea of assumed superiority of the majority is alive and well in this country. So while some of the comments might not be overtly racist, and the posters making them might feel they are not being racist, comments like well Obama and Ben Carson "SOUND" more intelligent than Jackson based off of a 30 second sound bite to me sounds as if you are saying this. The less ethnic you "SOUND" the more intelligent you will appear to the majority.


SO at the end of the day, while i hope there are no cross burning, I dislike him simply because he has a genetic tan types on our board. The only person that really knows whats in your heart when it comes to other races is you. I really wish as a country we would get past all this. And at some point, thanks to evolution and the ever present cross pollination, we will. Because I give it another 3-5 generations and the only places you will be able to find some one who isnt of mixed background is in the hills of West Virginia and certain pockets of Georgia maybe.

 

[gkekoa]

If this is true of him then it 's true of the very best in the history of this league who had the ability to run. Staubach could run, Rogers can run, both are examples of the same thing. Now, I'm not comparing Jackson to either of these guys, just pointing out the selectiveness of such a position on him vs. these guys.

To be clear, Jackson has always been a pocket passer. It was true in high school, true at Louisville, and for better or worse it will be true in the NFL. His athleticism adds a little something extra to his game.

No it isn’t. If Rodgers could not run, he would still be Rodgers. He would likely take fewer chances, fewer hits, and have fewer injuries, but he would still be one of the best passers in the league.

If Jackson moved like Carson Palmer, Jackson wouldn’t have been a collegiate QB, let alone an NFL QB.

 

[ehb5]

I follow Chris Hogan very closely. Played HS ball against him. I know he played Lacrosse at PSU when he took his 5th year at Monmouth he participated in their pro day where he caught the eye of scouts based off his measurables. He was literally asked to play safety because he was white. He said no. Its killing me I cant find this link with the interview. I'll post when/if I do

Never said you accused but I felt that was the position you were coming from. Maybe some sort of reverse sensitivity is in play. Crazy world.

Interesting. But still not remotely comparable to asking Jackson to switch. He also played DB at Monmouth so that's not even that weird anyways.

I think often times the people complaining about over sensitivity are just as much of "snowflakes" as the people they get so worked up about. Not sure if thats what you meant by reverse sensitivity but that's definitely something I've noticed in the past.

And FWIW i think it's a bit off that just because i may think one thing may be racially motivated that you would assume i think everything is racially motivated. You said it yourself - there are plenty of ignorant people inthe world.

 

[Stymietee]

No it isn’t. If Rodgers could not run, he would still be Rodgers. He would likely take fewer chances, fewer hits, and have fewer injuries, but he would still be one of the best passers in the league.

If Jackson moved like Carson Palmer, Jackson wouldn’t have been a collegiate QB, let alone an NFL QB.

You must be seeing a far different Jackson than I'm looking at right now. Jackson as a pocket passer was terrific during his time in school. The ability to run only enhanced to ability to deliver the ball. There are questions about his accuracy and I'll admit that it is very important to being an effective NFL player. Every QB that was drafted this year has some flaw in his game that will need to be corrected at the NFL level. Jackson's flaw is one related to footwork and setting a wider base, something that any good NFL QB coach can help him correct.

 

[gkekoa]

You must be seeing a far different Jackson than I'm looking at right now. Jackson as a pocket passer was terrific during his time in school. The ability to run only enhanced to ability to deliver the ball. There are questions about his accuracy and I'll admit that it is very important to being an effective NFL player. Every QB that was drafted this year has some flaw in his game that will need to be corrected at the NFL level. Jackson's flaw is one related to footwork and setting a wider base, something that any good NFL QB coach can help him correct.

Obviously, there is no way to prove it, but if you don’t think his legs open up lanes that wouldn’t be there, then you are kidding yourself. That is why RG3 was so effective year 1and disappeared out of the league shortly thereafter.

People always talk about a runner’s footwork and how it can be improved...funny how it never has been.

 

[Skins2021]

OK I really tried to stay out of this one, because trying to get some one to admit that what they are saying just might be a bit racist on a sports forum is about a productive is herding cats. But a few things here.

1. The stereotype of the black QB does still exist and is alive and well in the NFL. Even I am guilty of it to a degree. When a black QB in college is mobile, he is an athlete playing QB. Carson Wentz was classified as a QB who happens to be athletic. So there is a double standard.

2. The idea of assumed superiority of the majority is alive and well in this country. So while some of the comments might not be overtly racist, and the posters making them might feel they are not being racist, comments like well Obama and Ben Carson "SOUND" more intelligent than Jackson based off of a 30 second sound bite to me sounds as if you are saying this. The less ethnic you "SOUND" the more intelligent you will appear to the majority.


SO at the end of the day, while i hope there are no cross burning, I dislike him simply because he has a genetic tan types on our board. The only person that really knows whats in your heart when it comes to other races is you. I really wish as a country we would get past all this. And at some point, thanks to evolution and the ever present cross pollination, we will. Because I give it another 3-5 generations and the only places you will be able to find some one who isnt of mixed background is in the hills of West Virginia and certain pockets of Georgia maybe.

While I see what you are saying, comparing Wentz athleticism to LJ or Vick or RG3 is not fair. LJ, Vick, RG3 are way way way superior athletes. Johnny Manziel was the closest (though they are on a different level) and he had many of the same concerns and flopped historically.

I dont see it as a race thing, I see it as athletic qbs in college have a low success rate in the NFL and those athletic freaks at qb are usually black.

As for #2 I do not quite understand. Obama and Ben Carson sound intelligent because they are intelligent. I would and have drawn the same conclusions about some good ole boys from the deep south with heavy southern drawls. I do not see/hear very many Bobby Bouchers playing in the NFL and especially not at QB. Maybe Peyton Manning and hes probably the most intelligent QB ever.

I wrote and deleted another question seeking perspective like 5x at the fear of being labeled overtly racist. I am afraid to have an honest conversation because of that. That in itself may be the biggest problem facing race relations.

 

[Stymietee]

Obviously, there is no way to prove it, but if you don’t think his legs open up lanes that wouldn’t be there, then you are kidding yourself. That is why RG3 was so effective year 1and disappeared out of the league shortly thereafter.

People always talk about a runner’s footwork and how it can be improved...funny how it never has been.

Think back for a moment and if possible, recall the one poster here who thought it wise to sit Griffin in order to properly transition him into the NFL game. It is because of the false "pressure" being held as reason to insert these guys into a starting role that's ruining them. If they are not properly prepared for this game and drafted as if they were, is there any wonder why they fail? It is true that they may still fail with proper preparation, but those odds go down as a result of such preparation. Without it there's a near or greater than 90% chance that they are doomed to failure.

The college game is producing more and more of these QB's, there are fewer Luck types coming into the NFL game. The NFL is adjusting to this and players like Jackson will benefit from some seasoning before being thrown into the fire.

 

[Skins2021]

Interesting. But still not remotely comparable to asking Jackson to switch. He also played DB at Monmouth so that's not even that weird anyways.

I think often times the people complaining about over sensitivity are just as much of "snowflakes" as the people they get so worked up about. Not sure if thats what you meant by reverse sensitivity but that's definitely something I've noticed in the past.

And FWIW i think it's a bit off that just because i may think one thing may be racially motivated that you would assume i think everything is racially motivated. You said it yourself - there are plenty of ignorant people inthe world.

That is what I meant...

And we can go back and forth but I do think you believe LJ criticism is racially motivated whether its subtle or not. Maybe not everything but in this instance

 

[Stymietee]

While I see what you are saying, comparing Wentz athleticism to LJ or Vick or RG3 is not fair. LJ, Vick, RG3 are way way way superior athletes. Johnny Manziel was the closest (though they are on a different level) and he had many of the same concerns and flopped historically.

I dont see it as a race thing, I see it as athletic qbs in college have a low success rate in the NFL and those athletic freaks at qb are usually black.

As for #2 I do not quite understand. Obama and Ben Carson sound intelligent because they are intelligent. I would and have drawn the same conclusions about some good ole boys from the deep south with heavy southern drawls. I do not see/hear very many Bobby Bouchers playing in the NFL and especially not at QB. Maybe Peyton Manning and hes probably the most intelligent QB ever.

I wrote and deleted another question seeking perspective like 5x at the fear of being labeled overtly racist. I am afraid to have an honest conversation because of that. That in itself may be the biggest problem facing race relations.

Let me ask you something...Would said player benefit from a transition period, where they were made to sit, learn and work on their flaws, like Jackson's footwork, before becoming starters?

 

[Skins2021]

Let me ask you something...Would said player benefit from a transition period, where they were made to sit, learn and work on their flaws, like Jackson's footwork, before becoming starters?

I think ALL qbs could benefit from 1 year on the bench. With the said I think QBs like LJ would benefit even more, BUT let him take a few good hard pops in preseason so he can see for himself that he is going to need to change his game.