Remember when Jim Brown called Trent Richardson an "ordinary" back

[gb2]

He's on the Mt. Rushmore of bitter old athletes.

Until Tigers collapse, you could have added Jack Nicklaus to that list.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think it is more they have 5 very good talents for college instead of just one elite talent. So while in college the 5 combine to make one of the best OL's in college football none of them individually are great to be able to stand out at the next level.

I think it also has to do in they were talking to Mark Schlereth and he said that just like with QB's coming from the spread system and not being ready for the NFL many OL players are in that same boat in they need at least a couple of years to develop but because of the league we have today with needing instant results they just are not given the chance to develop like they need. It is why you are starting to see teams take a bigger TE that is maybe 280 but not a great TE and try to develop them into OL players while on the practice squad since no team wants them as a TE. Or they are doing that with a DL player and converting them over.

As for Richardson there just have to be certain positions that you just don't use a top-10 pick on. Unless at that position they are just heads above anybody else at the position I think you just have to stay away as they just don't impact the team as much as other positions.

Really that same theory applies in the NFL...you take 5 guys with NFL level talent that have brains give them enough reps as a unit and you can make a decent OL.

Hybrids...yep the Steelers have a guy now...former U.S. Army (Alejandro Villaneuva)...6'9" 350ish...2 years ago, he was more like 280 playing TE, and DE...PIT felt he had the agility to be a LT but needed more size and strength...he's delivered and most likely will be the OT3 and I would not be surprised if he's not the LT next year.

Richardson was never the 10th best talent in the draft, but the way he ran seem to be different to me once in got in the league.

 

[cdumler7]

Really that same theory applies in the NFL...you take 5 guys with NFL level talent that have brains give them enough reps as a unit and you can make a decent OL.

Hybrids...yep the Steelers have a guy now...former U.S. Army (Alejandro Villaneuva)...6'9" 350ish...2 years ago, he was more like 280 playing TE, and DE...PIT felt he had the agility to be a LT but needed more size and strength...he's delivered and most likely will be the OT3 and I would not be surprised if he's not the LT next year.

Richardson was never the 10th best talent in the draft, but the way he ran seem to be different to me once in got in the league.

To me this is where taking RB's especially from some of the major universities is a real tough call because is it the RB or is it the OL? I mean we have seen over and over again that Wisconsin backs even though they can break about every record out there for RB's don't translate very well to the NFL. So far same can be said of Alabama. Although Eddie Lacy seems to be doing pretty well and Yeldon if he was on a better team I could see him doing pretty well. At the same time Oklahoma known for having great OL's have produced 2 of maybe the top-5 RB's in the NFL with Murray and Peterson. University of California seems to be another that produces high quality RB's as they have Forsett, Lynch, and Anderson who were all Pro Bowlers, and then Vereen who just signed a pretty darn good deal for a RB with the Giants I think.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

To me this is where taking RB's especially from some of the major universities is a real tough call because is it the RB or is it the OL? I mean we have seen over and over again that Wisconsin backs even though they can break about every record out there for RB's don't translate very well to the NFL. So far same can be said of Alabama. Although Eddie Lacy seems to be doing pretty well and Yeldon if he was on a better team I could see him doing pretty well. At the same time Oklahoma known for having great OL's have produced 2 of maybe the top-5 RB's in the NFL with Murray and Peterson. University of California seems to be another that produces high quality RB's as they have Forsett, Lynch, and Anderson who were all Pro Bowlers, and then Vereen who just signed a pretty darn good deal for a RB with the Giants I think.

I think when you get to the NFL...the bigger RBs are typically power runners and work best behind an OL that can get some push, create a crease to get them to the second level...Bell and Foster are two bigger guys that come to mind that have a unique blend of power, vision and explosiveness to be effective in a ZBS. Just knowing the Steeler OL like I do...I'm not sure if Lacy or Gurley would be as good in a Steeler uniform because of the running styles.

I think this is why teams are able to find RBs in the later rounds that can be effective in the NFL because they are a good fit for the OL blocking style.

 

[Tharvot]

I don't remember Jim Brown saying that, but I remember saying Cle royally screwed up the draft by taking both T Rich and Weeden. Both were horrible picks IMO. You can stockpile draft picks, but if you can't convert it's meaningless...

no "IMO" necessary. They were possibly the 2 worst picks taken in the 1st round...and they were taken by the same team.

 

[Cyder]

and that he was not impressed with him one bit.

Remember the flack and disrespect Browns fans showed Jim Brown because of his comments? Well...Mr 3 yards per carry (Trent) has just been cut from his 3rd team in his short career. Looks like the great Jim Brown was right after all.

Here's an article on profootballtalk when they reported Jim Brown's comments. Scroll down and read some of the disrespectful comments left by Browns fans calling him bitter, senile, etc.

Jim Brown not impressed with “ordinary” Trent Richardson

Turns out Jim was wrong, he's less than ordinary

 

[cdumler7]

I think when you get to the NFL...the bigger RBs are typically power runners and work best behind an OL that can get some push, create a crease to get them to the second level...Bell and Foster are two bigger guys that come to mind that have a unique blend of power, vision and explosiveness to be effective in a ZBS. Just knowing the Steeler OL like I do...I'm not sure if Lacy or Gurley would be as good in a Steeler uniform because of the running styles.

I think this is why teams are able to find RBs in the later rounds that can be effective in the NFL because they are a good fit for the OL blocking style.

The Broncos legend of an OL coach was asked about RB's coming into the league and he said that there is one skill set that is more important than any other for a RB to be successful. That skill is vision. He said it doesn't matter if you are small, big, fast, or slow that if you have vision you can make it in this league. He said the problem is that is the one thing that as a scout you really can't tell with a college player. A great example is that for the Broncos in Montee Ball. He practically rewrote the college record book for RB's but he was running through huge holes so hard to see if he has great vision or not. The last couple of years with the holes being smaller he seems to hesitate now instead of just sticking his foot in the ground and going. Same thing with Trent Richardson as we have seen with some of the pictures that even when there is a huge hole he still can't see it to just go.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The Broncos legend of an OL coach was asked about RB's coming into the league and he said that there is one skill set that is more important than any other for a RB to be successful. That skill is vision. He said it doesn't matter if you are small, big, fast, or slow that if you have vision you can make it in this league. He said the problem is that is the one thing that as a scout you really can't tell with a college player. A great example is that for the Broncos in Montee Ball. He practically rewrote the college record book for RB's but he was running through huge holes so hard to see if he has great vision or not. The last couple of years with the holes being smaller he seems to hesitate now instead of just sticking his foot in the ground and going. Same thing with Trent Richardson as we have seen with some of the pictures that even when there is a huge hole he still can't see it to just go.

I think you need a little more than vision, but certainly the most important...some of that is coaching and scheme...what I mean...in CFB the play is often designed to go thru the A gap, etc...that's what the average RB does...hit the A gap...come hell or high water...a great RB hits the A gap if it's open, but if the DEF over pursues...they see that and flow to daylight as the coaches you to say.

 

[Clayton]

I watched him @ Bama too, and there was no question in my mind he was better than Ingram...you're 100% right...he got paid and checked out.

I tend to agree. Im pretty harsh on Bama prospects because they rarely get challenged the same way prospects for other schools do but Richardson looked really good in college. Whats funny is that Lacy got the knock for being a product of the oline but he is probably going to have a really good career. Richardson...just a bust. Either didn't try or just seriously injured at some point.

Yeldon is going to be awful, btw. He makes Richardson look like Jamaal Charles

 

[HuskerinBig10]

Back then when I was on ESPN, I also called it a bad draft pick. There is no reason to draft a running back in either round 1 or round 2 anymore.

Why?

1. Running back lifespan is too short. The risk reward is not worth the money you have to pay.
2. It is a passing game.
3. Draft a quarterback, a receiver, a rush end or rush linebacker, cornerback, or a tackle(left usually).
4. There are plenty of good backs available that a team can get cheap.
5. A good offensive line, can make an average back look good.

 

[jarntt]

no "IMO" necessary. They were possibly the 2 worst picks taken in the 1st round...and they were taken by the same team.

Sorry, I meant to say that at the time I thought they were horrible. Obviously now all doubt has been removed

 

[Dude]

"He's still alive? damn I thought I told you to waste that dumb fuck."

Another day in the NFL.

 

[Bolts]

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's rare that you see a guy so hyped do so poorly and not be injured.

I know everyone talks about Ki-Jana Carter being a bust, but he tore his ACL back when the recovery was much more dubious than it is today.

 

[Cincyfan78]

He's on the Mt. Rushmore of bitter old athletes. I got him, Oscar Robertson, and Bill Russell, and Ted Williams (RIP, great player like the other 3).

The Big O is one of the most bitter people I've heard on radio. Dude is a legend around here for his basketball but also because he's a legendary asshole as well.

 

[cdumler7]

I think you need a little more than vision, but certainly the most important...some of that is coaching and scheme...what I mean...in CFB the play is often designed to go thru the A gap, etc...that's what the average RB does...hit the A gap...come hell or high water...a great RB hits the A gap if it's open, but if the DEF over pursues...they see that and flow to daylight as the coaches you to say.

It is nice to have other traits obviously but vision definitely makes a huge difference. Terrell Davis is a great example in he wasn't fast, he wasn't the big bruiser, he was the quick shifty guy, but he had some of the best vision of any RB I have ever seen. He had enough wiggle and enough power to make somebody miss but it wasn't otherworldly either. The reason he was an MVP in this league was because he had great vision to know where to go.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

It is nice to have other traits obviously but vision definitely makes a huge difference. Terrell Davis is a great example in he wasn't fast, he wasn't the big bruiser, he was the quick shifty guy, but he had some of the best vision of any RB I have ever seen. He had enough wiggle and enough power to make somebody miss but it wasn't otherworldly either. The reason he was an MVP in this league was because he had great vision to know where to go.

TD is still one of the biggest mysteries of UGA football...simply could not get on the field, but the toss sweep just wasn't his strong suit.

Got to DEN and flourished in a ZBS that catered to his game.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Wasn't it Holmgren who made that pick ?

I believe so, genius that he is..... He was Cleveland's President in 2012.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I believe so, genius that he is..... He was Cleveland's President in 2012.

Great coach, not such a great GM ... Some guy's are much better at evaluating talent...

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Great coach, not such a great GM ... Some guy's are much better at evaluating talent...

As Dirty Harry Callahan said, "A man's got to know his limitations..."

Norv Turner has a hard time with this concept too.