Redskins

[MilkSpiller22]

there is a difference between being offended and believing that the name should be changed...

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm just baffled by the resistance to changing a team name from an indefensibly derogatory term.

The slippery slope argument is (as it so often is when appealed to) complete and utter BS. There is no mascot in the US that comes anywhere close to being as clearly derogatory as this one.

The only argument I can sympathize somewhat with is the lifelong redskin fan who feels an emotional attachment to a word that has come to mean nothing more to them than their team (even then its heard to feel anything beyond "get over it")... and yet that is the one argument I have seen the least of.

I can't see how NOT to be worried, regarding the possible ramifications of government (not the majority of the people the issue concerns) telling you what is acceptable or not? It's a HUGE infringement of civil liberties. It sets up a precedent to be able to attack almost anything because one person might be offended over something.

Is this what you want to see? Forget the redskins name change. If that happens, so be it.

Let's follow this thinking with a different example. We're talking about opening the door for government to possibly being allowed to dictate something as mundane as your right to enjoy a TV show that includes some potentially 'offensive' words in it because someone else might find offensive.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I would love to see an updated survey asked to all native americans or at least a very large sample size of each tribe...

4 Questions needed-all with 3 choices YES, NO, dont care

1. Are you a football fan
2. Are you a washington redskins fan
3. Are you offended by the term Redskin
4. Should Washington change its name

____________________________________________________________________________



and I would like to see it sorted by location and tribe...

Honestly should a native american from Wyoming have the same input as a native american in maryland??

Me too. I have no problem changing the name if we had this type of research involved and it indicated majority outrage within the NA community with regards to how the Redskins franchise uses the name.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Please just call your viewpoint for what it is. You are pissed your favorite football team's name might have to be changed. Don't hide behind something else.

90% of the people speaking loudly against this on this board are Redskin fans.

It's not about being a skins homer for either So Cal or myself regarding this issue.

So Cal has always said that if the name changes, he would be fine with it. He has always maintained it's the agenda driving it that he questions as well as people using this issue as a platform for their own fifteen minutes of fame, not because of any honest efforts to change public policy for the NA community.

 

[Money]

Me too. I have no problem changing the name if we had this type of research involved and it indicated majority outrage within the NA community with regards to how the Redskins franchise uses the name.

So you aren't willing to accept the NCAI as a representative body of the whole?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So you aren't willing to accept the NCAI as a representative body of the whole?

SHow me the article that you are referencing... Just so I know what you are talking about... And again I would love to see where the Haters are from and if they even like football...

 

[Caliskinsfan]

So you aren't willing to accept the NCAI as a representative body of the whole?

Not as as the only factor. It should absolutely be weighed into the issue.

 

[Money]

SHow me the article that you are referencing... Just so I know what you are talking about... And again I would love to see where the Haters are from and if they even like football...

A. I'm not sure what either has to do with the issue. I'm also not sure where "haters" is coming from.

B. Oneida Indian Nation and National Congress of American Indians Praise U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for Cancelling Washington NFL Team's R-Word Trademark - Press Release - Digital Journal

 

[gordontrue]

I can't see how NOT to be worried, regarding the possible ramifications of government (not the majority of the people the issue concerns) telling you what is acceptable or not? It's a HUGE infringement of civil liberties. It sets up a precedent to be able to attack almost anything because one person might be offended over something.

Is this what you want to see? Forget the redskins name change. If that happens, so be it.

Let's follow this thinking with a different example. We're talking about opening the door for government to possibly being allowed to dictate something as mundane as your right to enjoy a TV show that includes some potentially 'offensive' words in it because someone else might find offensive.

My reference to the slippery slope argument wasn't about government control over over a business name... that I get.

The slippery slope argument I'm referring to is the silly "if the Redskins change their name.. then the Chiefs, Raiders, Braves, etc will have to change their names too". The difference between the term Redskins, and the others is incredibly huge.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

A. I'm not sure what either has to do with the issue. I'm also not sure where "haters" is coming from. From an article on him:

B. Oneida Indian Nation and National Congress of American Indians Praise U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for Cancelling Washington NFL Team's R-Word Trademark - Press Release - Digital Journal

I question Ray Halbritter, the head of Oneida Nations agenda. That's part of why I want more information.

How a 900-member tribe in central New York came to wage a fight to pressure the Washington Redskins to change its name is, in many ways, an American success story. But it is also one fraught with internal dissension, bitter legal battles and decades of controversy, much of it centered on Halbritter, a Harvard-educated former iron worker respected by many and reviled by others.

In recent weeks, Halbritter has met with NFL executives, members of Congress and his local religious leaders about the team’s name, explaining why he believes the word is a racial slur that needs to go. On Tuesday, he sat beside President Obama during a meeting of a dozen tribal leaders at the White House and thanked him for his remarks on the name issue.

Halbritter, 63, is not the first Native American to object to the team’s name, but he has become one of the most prominent, attracting a new level of acclaim and criticism in the process. Supporters hail him as a great leader who has pulled his people out of poverty and is defending their image. Opponents condemn him as an opportunist who has amassed a fortune at the expense of others.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

My reference to the slippery slope argument wasn't about government control over over a business name... that I get.

The slippery slope argument I'm referring to is the silly "if the Redskins change their name.. then the Chiefs, Raiders, Braves, etc will have to change their names too". The difference between the term Redskins, and the others is incredibly huge.

That's not my primary concern.

Though that is something that would probably come under attack, if this is successful regarding the skins name.

Everything becomes open and fair game, when you allow the government to be the arbiter of determining these things.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

How Many Native Americans Think ?Redskins? is a Slur? « CBS DC

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How Many Native Americans Think ?Redskins? is a Slur? « CBS DC

This is why I would love to do the survey, we are getting only individuals to come out and express there feelings... The Oneida one had a small group of people talking for the 900 of them... Would love to know the what is the popular consensus... and I would love to know what tribes and where they are located to sort this out...

As always it is the loudest voices that make the noise, the question is do they speak for anyone besides themselves???

 

[Money]

"The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans."



Maybe Snyder has his next team nickname. That would go over well...

 

[Caliskinsfan]

This pretty much sums it up for me as a Washington Redskin Fan. Again, if the name changes, so be it.

Is it time for football yet?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If a questionably derogatory word is used in a non derogatory way, then how derogatory is it in context??

 

[darken65]

This has been debate for only a short time in the history of teams using Native Americans as a trademark or mascot. I am a half-breed (I was called that in my youth) and have never heard of any issue with my cousins,uncles,aunts, etc. about this naming of sports teams. My beef as a kid (and still is to this day) is that some idiot came from Europe to find a passage to India found America and declared he landed in India. The biggest issue with me is that they still use the word Indians to desribe the people who lived in what is now called the Americas.

 

[dirtboy068]

When is enough, enough?

I'll say one thing, that ad was a savvy media piece. Quite successful at completely diverting the real issue at hand. Guess 'Context and intent ' of the team name means nothing. Apparently the redskins franchise is responsible now for perpetuating the NAs tragic history in this country; thru celebrating, blaspheming and disrespecting the entire NA population in America cuz we're all about rasicism NOT fandom. Right.

Yup, it's the name and mascot that is responsible for the plight of NAs today, not horrific public policy. Uh huh.

Well, the PC police might win the day, and if it's legislated, then so be it. But I sure as hell don't have to like or agree with the premise, argument or accusations of racist connotation.

Be careful what you wish for. You might actually get it.

when they change the RACIST name

 

[dirtboy068]

all the the bullsh5t lying " I'm part native American so its ok" in these threads is laughable.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

all the the bullsh5t lying " I'm part native American so its ok" in these threads is laughable.

Almost as laughable as white liberals being offend for NA that are not.