Redskins are considering tagging Kirk for a trade

[Stymietee]

We literally can’t afford to have both QBs on our roster.

We can, just not for very long!

 

[Stymietee]

Why???

For all that people are tryin to spin this into some way the Skins get something for a QB they have thrown away.

But lets look at this from a realistic stand point.

Most of the teams interested in Kirk KNOW they most likely wont get a chance to talk to him until free agency starts. So any one planning to pitch him, was making plans to try and get him in March. Kirk knows this as well. Kirk also knows that even if the Redskins tag him, they can not realistically keep the tag on him into the start of free agency. So if they tag him, and he does not sign it, the Redskins would need to remove the tag on the 14th of March or have no cap space to sign their own free agents or the other free agents they actually do want.

So basically it would be hedging the bet that some other team is willing to give up draft capitol just to avoid having to bid against other teams.

So again I will say.. the Redskins might be desperate enough to do something like that.... IM not so sure the teams that would be in the Cousins talks would be, and I don't think Kirk or his agent will be bullied into doing the Redskins a solid on this one.

If Washington had the cap space to force the issue maybe.

The key of course, is that this is the first time in history that a QB like Cousins, bereft of injury, has hit the market in his prime years(sort of). That alone will have teams clamoring for him. Again, I'll point out that just because Washington has deemed it necessary to devalue him for their purposes, doesn't mean others will follow suit. In fact, they won't.

 

[Stymietee]

There is zero gamble for KC. If the Skins don’t trade him for whatever they get, he makes 35million and is a FA next season where he makes even more money.

Really?? you do know that in order for him to make that 35 million he will either sit a year behind Smith or play here for another season where his heart won't be. He then risks having to be benched or a Cleveland type season on his record.

 

[Stymietee]

There is zero gamble for Cousins.

The Redskins can not afford to have him on the tag past March 13th. So yea they could tag him and make him miss out on the legal tampering period. But if Kirk is tagged and unsigned by the 14th... The Redskins simply cant afford to play chicken with him.

So, he does gamble during that time interval. Nice.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Did you hear Bruce Allen is giving up our 2nd rounder for Foles

 

[gkekoa]

Really?? you do know that in order for him to make that 35 million he will either sit a year behind Smith or play here for another season where his heart won't be. He then risks having to be benched or a Cleveland type season on his record.

Of course. There is no risk playing behind Smith. If we understand the dysfunction, don’t you think the professionals understand it?

 

[Stymietee]

Of course. There is no risk playing behind Smith. If we understand the dysfunction, don’t you think the professionals understand it?

I'm sure they do, Kansas City certainly understood it and did business with them. I'm sure that with respect to Cousins, others will do the same.

 

[Sportster 72]

Could we tag Cousin's and package him and Smith to Philly for Foles?

 

[Stymietee]

Could we tag Cousin's and package him and Smith to Philly for Foles?

Why not? It would just be another team doing to us what every other team seems to do and that's...

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm sure they do, Kansas City certainly understood it and did business with them. I'm sure that with respect to Cousins, others will do the same.

Said it before and I will say it again.

For the Chiefs, the Smith trade was business and nothing personal. They were trying to look out for the best interest of the team and also not trying to play games with Smith as they did actually like him as a player.

For the Redskins, the handling of Cousins is personal. They dealt for Smith because they had no intentions of keeping Cousins unless it was on their terms. This latest considering tagging him is Bruce's attempt at proving he is still in charge and he will get his way.

Bruce knows fuck all about talent evaluation, but he is a master at putting on the good front. He and Dan are birds of a feather in that respect.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Actually knowing that the Skins CANT keep him tagged into the start of free agency is exactly his goal at this point.

Sure he could be a nice guy and let the Redskins dictate who he can talk to. Some how I don't think he is in the mood to do them a solid like that.

The only way the Skins can force this is to shoot themselves in the foot by keeping the tag on him beyond the start of free agency. I don't see that happening.

I agree. I don't think the Skins are crazy enough to actually tag KC again. There are just too many ways this can go wrong. As you've said many times, a LTD will have to be worked out in advance for any trade to work. So, KC has all the leverage. It's a given, unmovable fact that no team will trade anything of value for a 1 year rental at 34M.

If the Skins do tag him...they MUST trade him prior to FA opening...and they must trade him for whatever they can get...from the team he chooses to sign a LTD with. How on earth is that a good idea?

 

[Sharkinva]

I agree. I don't think the Skins are crazy enough to actually tag KC again. There are just too many ways this can go wrong. As you've said many times, a LTD will have to be worked out in advance for any trade to work. So, KC has all the leverage. It's a given, unmovable fact that no team will trade anything of value for a 1 year rental at 34M.

If the Skins do tag him...they MUST trade him prior to FA opening...and they must trade him for whatever they can get...from the team he chooses to sign a LTD with. How on earth is that a good idea?

What a lot of people are also forgetting is the NFL transaction windows and time tables.

Say they DO pull this off. The deal cant go through until the 14th, meaning the Skins cant actually have his cap space cleared until the 15th.

If they don't have the actual cap space on the 14 to sign say, Zack Brown, the league will reject the contract until such time as they have the cap space.

So we would basically be telling any FA's we want... sure we want to sign you, but you have to wait til we get Cousins off the books first. Some guys will be fine with that. Others who have multiple suitors might just say, I don't need to go into the Drama that is DC and if they are willing to play games with Cousins like this, how are they really going to treat me??

 

[Niner Outlaw]

@Sharkinva , @Stymietee , @gkekoa , @Sportster 72 , @j_y19 , @coach_spurrier_1 , @VTSparks , @RedskinzDan , @reptec101 , @chillerdab , @countryroads316 , @deanpet21 , @Breed , @Ritzarmy, @skinsdad62, @skinz2winz , @skinzfan

For any and all Skins posters that are in favor of the tag and trade idea, imagine you are the Washington Redskins GM (congrats!) and look at this scenario and tell me what you would do.

Tag and Trade Scenario:
Being the brilliant GM that you are, you tag Cousins on February 20. Kirk signs it to prevent the team from rescinding it later. Your wildest dreams come true and the Browns offer the 4th overall pick and the Cardinals and Jets are offering a 2nd rounder. Naturally, all offers are contingent on KC signing a LTD. KC vetoes the trade offers by refusing to sign a LTD with any of those teams. Cousins tells the Skins GM (you) that he wants to be traded to Denver and that is the only team he will sign a LTD with. However, Denver knows that too, so when you call, Elway only offers a 4th rd pick in 2019. You have 18 days until the FA tampering period opens on March 12 and FA opens 2 days later.

Keep in mind, since you tagged KC, these real-world constraints apply:
--You can't rescind the tag b/c Cousins has already signed it.
--Until you trade Cousins, you have basically zero cap space.
--Until you get cap space, you can't resign or sign FAs making much more than the minimum.
--If you trade Cousins, you'll no longer receive the 3rd rd comp pick you likely had coming in 2019.
--Until you trade KC, you'll have to restructure deals and/or cut players just to sign your draft picks.

YOU are the Washington GM. What do you do now?

 

[Ritzarmy]

@Sharkinva , @Stymietee , @gkekoa , @Sportster 72 , @j_y19 , @coach_spurrier_1 , @VTSparks , @RedskinzDan , @reptec101 , @chillerdab , @countryroads316 , @deanpet21 , @Breed , @Ritzarmy, @skinsdad62, @skinz2winz , @skinzfan

For any and all Skins posters that are in favor of the tag and trade idea, imagine you are the Washington Redskins GM (congrats!) and look at this scenario and tell me what you would do.

Tag and Trade Scenario:
Being the brilliant GM that you are, you tag Cousins on February 20. Kirk signs it to prevent the team from rescinding it later. Your wildest dreams come true and the Browns offer the 4th overall pick and the Cardinals and Jets are offering a 2nd rounder. Naturally, all offers are contingent on KC signing a LTD. KC vetoes the trade offers by refusing to sign a LTD with any of those teams. Cousins tells the Skins GM (you) that he wants to be traded to Denver and that is the only team he will sign a LTD with. However, Denver knows that too, so when you call, Elway only offers a 4th rd pick in 2019. You have 18 days until the FA tampering period opens on March 12 and FA opens 2 days later.

Keep in mind, since you tagged KC, these real-world constraints apply:
--You can't rescind the tag b/c Cousins has already signed it.
--Until you trade Cousins, you have basically zero cap space.
--Until you get cap space, you can't resign or sign FAs making much more than the minimum.
--If you trade Cousins, you'll no longer receive the 3rd rd comp pick you likely had coming in 2019.
--Until you trade KC, you'll have to restructure deals and/or cut players just to sign your draft picks.

YOU are the Washington GM. What do you do now?

Trade KC to Denver. Get him a nice bottle of wine, card saying we wish you the very best.

 

[Sleepy T]

@Niner Outlaw

I see where you are going. But that’s a loaded question. How does Denver know that KC will sign with them and only them if they haven’t been in contact with his agent?? And why would he limit himself to that team alone?? He wants to be courted and sought after.

But I guess in your (semi unrealistic) scenario you likely have to trade him to Denver. You get a 4th instead of 3rd. Not that huge of a difference.

 

[RedskinzDan]

If Kirk would realize that by signing the Tag, not only will he be guaranteed 34M this year, but it ups the starting point for negotiations for a LTD and guaranteed money. It is not in his best interested to try to screw us. We just cant be greedy. Be open and honest with him, help him realize that this is a good thing and he can benefit from it. As long as we don't try to ask too much or control where he goes, it could work out.

Or maybe Kirk signs the tag thinking he will screw us. And Cleveland doesn't care if he agrees to a LTD and will trade for him no matter what.

But honestly I don't see Bruce having a nice honest conversation with him. So, in the end we will get screwed.

 

[j_y19]

@Sharkinva , @Stymietee , @gkekoa , @Sportster 72 , @j_y19 , @coach_spurrier_1 , @VTSparks , @RedskinzDan , @reptec101 , @chillerdab , @countryroads316 , @deanpet21 , @Breed , @Ritzarmy, @skinsdad62, @skinz2winz , @skinzfan

For any and all Skins posters that are in favor of the tag and trade idea, imagine you are the Washington Redskins GM (congrats!) and look at this scenario and tell me what you would do.

Tag and Trade Scenario:
Being the brilliant GM that you are, you tag Cousins on February 20. Kirk signs it to prevent the team from rescinding it later. Your wildest dreams come true and the Browns offer the 4th overall pick and the Cardinals and Jets are offering a 2nd rounder. Naturally, all offers are contingent on KC signing a LTD. KC vetoes the trade offers by refusing to sign a LTD with any of those teams. Cousins tells the Skins GM (you) that he wants to be traded to Denver and that is the only team he will sign a LTD with. However, Denver knows that too, so when you call, Elway only offers a 4th rd pick in 2019. You have 18 days until the FA tampering period opens on March 12 and FA opens 2 days later.

Keep in mind, since you tagged KC, these real-world constraints apply:
--You can't rescind the tag b/c Cousins has already signed it.
--Until you trade Cousins, you have basically zero cap space.
--Until you get cap space, you can't resign or sign FAs making much more than the minimum.
--If you trade Cousins, you'll no longer receive the 3rd rd comp pick you likely had coming in 2019.
--Until you trade KC, you'll have to restructure deals and/or cut players just to sign your draft picks.

YOU are the Washington GM. What do you do now?

In this specific scenario, you take the 4th. But I see this scenario as not very feasible. But this is the risk you run I’d you tag him.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I see where you are going. But that’s a loaded question. How does Denver know that KC will sign with them and only them if they haven’t been in contact with his agent?? And why would he limit himself to that team alone?? He wants to be courted and sought after.

Backk channel communications are frequent and widespread prior to FA. Prior to the legal tampering period, remember all those FAs that signed LTDs with new teams just minutes into free agency? How did all those details get worked out if no one could communicate before FA officially opened? B/c communication happened even if it wasn't supposed to. That's how Cousins' chosen teams will find out.

Yes, Kirk has made it clear that he wants to be courted, he said it was something like being recruited by colleges, and good for him. I think that'll happen too b/c I don't think he'll limit himself to just one team. However, that isn't likely to help the Redskins get more in trade compensation b/c the choice will be his, not the team's. He has no incentive to pick out the team that is offering the Skins the most. He'll want his new team to give up as little as possible. Whether he signs that tag or not, he has all the leverage b/c it's his choice and every other team in the league knows that the Skins will not enter the season with both he and Alex Smith on the team/cap.

But I guess in your (semi unrealistic) scenario you likely have to trade him to Denver. You get a 4th instead of 3rd. Not that huge of a difference.

Not a huge difference, but it would be quite an embarrassment for the Skins FO. They have a 3rd rd comp in their hand if they let Cousins walk in FA and they're careful about which FAs they sign. Trying to tag and trade Cousins could mean they end up with a lot less than the 3rd, like a 5th or a 7th. Giving up the 3rd rd comp only to accept even less a few weeks later would top even the clown-car way that the FO bungled the Cousins situation the last 2 years. To see that, I'd wonder if Allen enjoys looking like a fool.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

If Kirk would realize that by signing the Tag, not only will he be guaranteed 34M this year, but it ups the starting point for negotiations for a LTD and guaranteed money. It is not in his best interested to try to screw us. We just cant be greedy. Be open and honest with him, help him realize that this is a good thing and he can benefit from it. As long as we don't try to ask too much or control where he goes, it could work out.

Or maybe Kirk signs the tag thinking he will screw us. And Cleveland doesn't care if he agrees to a LTD and will trade for him no matter what.

But honestly I don't see Bruce having a nice honest conversation with him. So, in the end we will get screwed.

For the first time in the Cousins saga, I think the Skins will make the smart move and not tag him at all.

 

[RedskinzDan]

At this point I am so sick of the crap. We lost big in the trade. We lost big in not signing Kirk the past couple years. I need more drama in my life. I want us to go for broke. What's the worst that can happen? We always win in the off season and lose during the real season. Lets just keep that trend going. Roll the dice and see what happens.