Redskins are considering tagging Kirk for a trade

[Sharkinva]

I assumed the higher FT $$$ was implied.

I don't know Kirk, but I can see him telling his agent "No favors to the Redskins".

Actually I think it would be more like his agent telling him, no favors for the Redskins.

Cousins has time, the cap space the Redskins have, and the Smith pending trade on his side.

Bruce has his ego, and a fan base that hasn't seen a GOOD Redskins team in 20+ years and has become used to Snyders brand of Redskins football.

 

[j_y19]

Not really.

The thing the Redskins don't have is time and cap space to make this work.

If they tag him on 2/20 he needs to be signed and dealt no later than 3/12.

Free Agency starts on 3/14.

Teams that would be interested in Cousins were planning to talk to him 3/12-3/14 during the legal tampering period.

So basically nothing changes for Cousins if he doesn't sign the tag because the Skins would need to clear his cap space by 3/13 in order to have cap room to sign players they actually do want.

So basically they tag him, he doesn't sign it, they cant trade him and need to remove the tag by 3/12 any way or risk missing out on the free agents they want to sign.

If the Redskins had the cap space to carry him and still make other moves, they could play hard ball. But for them to deal him, he needs to play ball. Not signing does not hurt Cousins time line one bit.

Your'e right. But you are only looking at it from one side. What happens to KC if he doesn't sign. What are his options? 3/13 comes and goes. He can't talk to anyone...i'll say it again....ANYONE. he has two choices. be vindictive and say FU, redskins. I'm holding out. At least for a while. which means that the QB needy teams make other plans for QB this year. Or he signs. Worst case scenario for him is they can't find a trade partner and he sits the bench this year on a terrible redskins team and gets paid $34M. Under the former scenario, his value drops every day as teams draft/sign other QBs. Under the latter, he becomes the highest paid player in the history of the NFL by a large margin and can call but name is next team in 2019. Which would you do?

 

[j_y19]

Look I get it people are hoping Bruce can some how manage to get something for a player he doesn't want. But as I pointed out, there is no way they can Force Kirk to sign the tag to facilitate a trade, and trying to play chicken and say well we will just hold you until you sign so we can trade you would be cutting off the Redskins nose in an attempt to spite Cousins further.

Yo are missing my point. Its a no brainer for KC to sign that tag. He would be a complete idiot to not take that deal. He can't be traded to any team he doesn't want. He controls it all, even tagged.

 

[Sharkinva]

Your'e right. But you are only looking at it from one side. What happens t KC if he doesn't sign. What are his options? 3/13 comes and goes. He can't talk to anyone...i'll say it again....ANYONE. he has two choices. be vindictive and say FU, redskins. I'm holding out. At least for a while. which means that the needy teams make other plans for QB this year. Or he signs. Worst case scenario they can't find a trade partner and he sits the bench this year on a terrible redskins team and gets paid $34M. Under the former scenario, his value drops every day as teams draft/sign other QBs. Under the latter, he becomes the highest paid player in the history of the NFL by a large margin and can call but name is next team in 2019. Which would you do?

So wait... you think Bruce will hold the tag in place until the 14th just to try and get something for Kirk and risk being able to sign players he wants and this team needs??

Aside from not being able to participate in the legal tampering period, nothing would change for Cousins.

And for Cousins at least its not about being vindictive. How many times does he have to say he is looking forward to being able to find his true market value?? Agreeing to do the Redskins a solid brings him no closer to that. What happens if Bruce decides.. well the Browns have the highest draft picks, so we only want you to talk to the Browns??

Again.. all Kirk needs to do is not sign the tag and the Skins will have no choice but to remove it by the 12th because any later than the 12th and they wont have the cleared cap space to make any moves of their own.


As for what I would do in his position... I wouldn't sign because I know the Redskins cant hold me past the 13th and free agency doesn't start until the 14th.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yo are missing my point. Its a no brainer for KC to sign that tag. He would be a complete idiot to not take that deal. He can't be traded to any team he doesn't want. He controls it all, even tagged.

Players get traded without being ASKED if its ok all the time.

Hell we just dealt Fuller and he found out on twitter. The only way Kirk ensures he doesn't get traded to a team he doesn't want to go to is to NOT sign the tag.

 

[j_y19]

So wait... you think Bruce will hold the tag in place until the 14th just to try and get something for Kirk and risk being able to sign players he wants and this team needs??

Aside from not being able to participate in the legal tampering period, nothing would change for Cousins.

And for Cousins at least its not about being vindictive. How many times does he have to say he is looking forward to being able to find his true market value?? Agreeing to do the Redskins a solid brings him no closer to that. What happens if Bruce decides.. well the Browns have the highest draft picks, so we only want you to talk to the Browns??

Again.. all Kirk needs to do is not sign the tag and the Skins will have no choice but to remove it by the 12th because any later than the 12th and they wont have the cleared cap space to make any moves of their own.


As for what I would do in his position... I wouldn't sign because I know the Redskins cant hold me past the 13th and free agency doesn't start until the 14th.

Never said that. Here is what I think happens. They tag him and he races to Ashburn to sign the deal. He now controls everything. He lets the team know the only teams he will negotiate a LTD with. Don't even bother talking to the other teams. He tells them to get what ever they can. Bring the best deals to him and he will decide if he likes them or not. In effect, he has the Redskins negotiate his deals for him. Its a brilliant move one KC's part. And once again Allen is outsmarted.

 

[j_y19]

Players get traded without being ASKED if its ok all the time.

Hell we just dealt Fuller and he found out on twitter. The only way Kirk ensures he doesn't get traded to a team he doesn't want to go to is to NOT sign the tag.

Dude, no team is going to trade for a $34M player unless they have a LTD with that player in place that lowers that cap hit. You know that. He controls it all. Once again.

 

[Manster7588]

Yo are missing my point. Its a no brainer for KC to sign that tag. He would be a complete idiot to not take that deal. He can't be traded to any team he doesn't want. He controls it all, even tagged.

I agree, and knowing the Skins cannot have 50M of its cap tied up on two QBs he has no reason to negotiate a LTD with any team the Skins are trying to trade with.
IMO if the Skins tag cousins they're shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[j_y19]

I agree, and knowing the Skins cannot have 50M of its cap tied up on two QBs he has no reason to negotiate a LTD with any team the Skins are trying to trade with.
IMO if the Skins tag cousins they're shooting themselves in the foot.

But why would he do that than other than being vindictive? It doesn't further his goals.

 

[Manster7588]

Dude, no team is going to trade for a $34M player unless they have a LTD with that player in place that lowers that cap hit. You know that. He controls it all. Once again.

I think you and Shark are saying the same thing with different words.
I think your both saying tagging Kirk is a bad idea.

 

[Manster7588]

But why would he do that than other than being vindictive? It doesn't further his goals.

Vindictive yes, but he knows the Skins can't keep him and Smith at that money, so the Skins will have to blink first and grant him his FA status much sooner than later.

 

[j_y19]

Vindictive yes, but he knows the Skins can't keep him and Smith at that money, so the Skins will have to blink first and grant him his FA status much sooner than later.

You are telling me that they couldn't find a team to give them a 3rd rd or better for KC and the exclusive rights to negotiate a LTD with? That's all it takes to make this a smart move for the skins.

 

[Sharkinva]

But why would he do that than other than being vindictive? It doesn't further his goals.

Actually knowing that the Skins CANT keep him tagged into the start of free agency is exactly his goal at this point.

Sure he could be a nice guy and let the Redskins dictate who he can talk to. Some how I don't think he is in the mood to do them a solid like that.

The only way the Skins can force this is to shoot themselves in the foot by keeping the tag on him beyond the start of free agency. I don't see that happening.

 

[Manster7588]

You are telling me that they couldn't find a team to give them a 3rd rd or better for KC and the exclusive rights to negotiate a LTD with? That's all it takes to make this a smart move for the skins.

Would you give a 3rd and risk paying Cousins 34M and then be in the Skins boat next off season?

If I'm a GM wanting a tagged Kirk, I sit with him, figure out a deal, then tell him sit tight on your 34M, as soon as the Skins come to their senses I'll sign you.
The Skins are between a rock and a hard place, with the space in the middle closing fast.

 

[Manster7588]

Actually knowing that the Skins CANT keep him tagged into the start of free agency is exactly his goal at this point.

Sure he could be a nice guy and let the Redskins dictate who he can talk to. Some how I don't think he is in the mood to do them a solid like that.

The only way the Skins can force this is to shoot themselves in the foot by keeping the tag on him beyond the start of free agency. I don't see that happening.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If a player signs the tag isn't the salary guaranteed? Wouldn't this mean, if Cousins signs the tag, wouldn't the team have to negotiate a buyout with Cousins to release him?

 

[Breed]

Shark hate Bruce so much it's always Bruce fault maybe gruden told Bruce fuck kirk

That's an unmitagated fact on point 1 and very plausible on point 2. Gruden did say he didn't want Kirk on another 1 year deal.

That doesn't change anything about the fact that Shark is the best cap guy on the forum. Or the fact that some of you cats have become Ms Pacman the way you're gobblin up Bruce's nuts while bending over backwards. Trying to make it seem like he's playing chess instead of checkers. This ain't fantasy fuckin football. While its looked doubtful, and extremely doubtful at points of time over the last 25 years. The Washington Redskins are a real team in the real world. We just finished with dealing with one pissed QB who felt disrespected for the last 2+ years while having to pay him 44 million dollars. Do we wanna start off our relationship with Smith by pissing him off almost immediately after paying him 70 million dollars over the next 4 years?

 

[Sharkinva]

Correct me if I'm wrong. If a player signs the tag isn't the salary guaranteed? Wouldn't this mean, if Cousins signs the tag, wouldn't the team have to negotiate a buyout with Cousins to release him?

If a player signs the tag, the salary does become guaranteed. But the team and the player can negotiate a long term deal that would lower the cap hit for year one, essentially spreading that money over the life of the deal.

But that deal has to be done by July 15th. So if the Skins tag him, he gets traded to another team and they have rough numbers in place... until the new deal is signed, he still counts that $35M against the new teams cap.

So IF he signs the deal and gets traded, much like Smith, I think they will have a new deal in place ready to sign before the trade is submitted.

But the real hold up IMO is that Kirk doesn't want Bruce deciding who he can and cant talk to. I mean suppose he wants to go to the Cards, and they want him.. but Bruce says.. you can talk to the Bills, Jets and Browns??

 

[Manster7588]

If a player signs the tag, the salary does become guaranteed. But the team and the player can negotiate a long term deal that would lower the cap hit for year one, essentially spreading that money over the life of the deal.

But that deal has to be done by July 15th. So if the Skins tag him, he gets traded to another team and they have rough numbers in place... until the new deal is signed, he still counts that $35M against the new teams cap.

So IF he signs the deal and gets traded, much like Smith, I think they will have a new deal in place ready to sign before the trade is submitted.

But the real hold up IMO is that Kirk doesn't want Bruce deciding who he can and cant talk to. I mean suppose he wants to go to the Cards, and they want him.. but Bruce says.. you can talk to the Bills, Jets and Browns??

There's the reason I don't think a team would trade for him.

If a player signs the tag, the salary does become guaranteed. But the team and the player can negotiate a long term deal that would lower the cap hit for year one, essentially spreading that money over the life of the deal.

But that deal has to be done by July 15th. So if the Skins tag him, he gets traded to another team and they have rough numbers in place... until the new deal is signed, he still counts that $35M against the new teams cap.

So IF he signs the deal and gets traded, much like Smith, I think they will have a new deal in place ready to sign before the trade is submitted.

But the real hold up IMO is that Kirk doesn't want Bruce deciding who he can and cant talk to. I mean suppose he wants to go to the Cards, and they want him.. but Bruce says.. you can talk to the Bills, Jets and Browns??

If tagged, and Allen pulls this crap, he has to be fired.

 

[gkekoa]

How realistic is that? If we get more than a 3rd, we are ahead of the game. How risky is it to think we could get a 2nd from Denver, or Buffalo, or Jax, or Jets, or Ariz for the rights to exclusively negotiate a LTD with Cousins? Its virtually a slam dunk. In fact, we might get more.

It is very realistic because there is no chance the Redskins keep him on the roster. Any trade has to be OKed by KC. KC will have to speak to interested teams in order to execute the trade. KC still controls where he goes.

 

[Stymietee]

Also... while Washington has shown a historical disdain for the value of draft picks (and our fan base seems to agree), most teams DO value draft picks. Giving up a 1st, 2nd or even a 3rd for a guy that Washington really wants no parts of and really cant afford to keep might not sit too well with some GMs.

I've never understood how it is logical possible to have this position. Let's say that Washington doesn't value nor wants any part of him, does it hold that everyone else values, or better, devalues him in the same manner? The reason they pay the 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd is because he can help them and therefore are pressed to settle their QB position as quickly as possible. These GM's are often professionals, and as such are forced to deal with others who are not. It's the business.