Reds Shopping Brandon Phillips

[redsfan03]

Link:Reds Shopping Brandon Phillips : MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Sounds like Walt's serious about shipping Phillips' sorry ass out of Cincinnati, though this "news" certainly should be taken with a grain of salt. At this point in the offseason, tons of players are "being shopped." It would be foolish for a GM not to listen to offers for most of the players on the roster.

That aside...great defense, mediocre to decent hitter, good community guy, but an absolute bitch and an increasingly bad attitude on the field. It was painful to watch him loaf down the stretch and into the (short) playoffs. He's very much a "Dusty Baker" type of guy in terms of his approach to the game. With the obvious change in clubhouse culture that the front office wants, it makes sense to dump Phillips and his large contract. Not sure there will be many buyers, though, especially if the Reds want the other team to shoulder the contract load.

Two things to consider if the Reds were somehow able to move Phillips:
1. Who plays second base?
2. Would that give the Reds enough money to sign Choo?

My guess is that the Reds will have to foot the bill for some of Phillips' fat contract if they're truly serious about sending him packing.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I'm wondering who'd be interested - there's not a lot of really good 2B's and honestly, while he has his flaws, he's a top 5 2B, so there would have to be some teams lining up for him, right?

 

[Redsfan1507]

Much of BP's problem is gone-Dusty Baker got fired. Not many managers would choose BP's 2 hitter HR potential and 6 hitter BA as a cleanup hitter, just to keep perennial 30 HR Jay Bruce from hitting back to back lefty 3-4 hitters with Votto...Dusty's 2 hole "hitters" hit less than .230 for most of the season, and although Choo and Votto, leading the NL in OBP all year made BP's otherwise mediocre offensive year seen more impressive with 100RBI, it cost Votto 25 RBI, and probably kept fellow 100RBI hitter Jay Bruce from MVP contention, and worse, exposed the Reds already porous lineup as one that was easily pitched around.

BP hit better as a tablesetter, and didnt hit any more HR as a 4 hitter, but he lost a lot on the BA, and more importantly, supported Dusty's lie that no one else could better man the cleanup spot- even though Bruce was clearly the only 4 hitter with enough power to make opposing pitchers consider options on pitching to Votto, and the stats show that a bad hitter between 2 good ones (in the 2 hole) can't be made up for with 18 HR.

I see no reason to trade BP for less than value, especially without an adequate replacement in D or at the plate...this team had the talent to play in October for the last 3 years, completely mismanaged by Dusty...and the Reds can ill afford to start rebuilding now that they've finally rid themselves if Dusty. No one held a gun to BP's head to sign a contract that will surely overpay him before BP is 36 on the last year of contract. The only person that ever lied to BP was Dusty- who told him, and the fans that BP was the best cleanup hitter they had. I suspect the Reds might shop, but I doubt they'll trade BP. I do expect he will be given a role more fitting his skills though, and hopefully with a new manager that actually leads, BP will have fewer opportunities to shoot off his mouth...benifiting BP, the Reds and fans alike.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Much of BP's problem is gone-Dusty Baker got fired. Not many managers would choose BP's 2 hitter HR potential and 6 hitter BA as a cleanup hitter, just to keep perennial 30 HR Jay Bruce from hitting back to back lefty 3-4 hitters with Votto...Dusty's 2 hole "hitters" hit less than .230 for most of the season, and although Choo and Votto, leading the NL in OBP all year made BP's otherwise mediocre offensive year seen more impressive with 100RBI, it cost Votto 25 RBI, and probably kept fellow 100RBI hitter Jay Bruce from MVP contention, and worse, exposed the Reds already porous lineup as one that was easily pitched around.

BP hit better as a tablesetter, and didnt hit any more HR as a 4 hitter, but he lost a lot on the BA, and more importantly, supported Dusty's lie that no one else could better man the cleanup spot- even though Bruce was clearly the only 4 hitter with enough power to make opposing pitchers consider options on pitching to Votto, and the stats show that a bad hitter between 2 good ones (in the 2 hole) can't be made up for with 18 HR.

I see no reason to trade BP for less than value, especially without an adequate replacement in D or at the plate...this team had the talent to play in October for the last 3 years, completely mismanaged by Dusty...and the Reds can ill afford to start rebuilding now that they've finally rid themselves if Dusty. No one held a gun to BP's head to sign a contract that will surely overpay him before BP is 36 on the last year of contract. The only person that ever lied to BP was Dusty- who told him, and the fans that BP was the best cleanup hitter they had. I suspect the Reds might shop, but I doubt they'll trade BP. I do expect he will be given a role more fitting his skills though, and hopefully with a new manager that actually leads, BP will have fewer opportunities to shoot off his mouth...benifiting BP, the Reds and fans alike.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Much of BP's problem is gone-Dusty Baker got fired. Not many managers would choose BP's 2 hitter HR potential and 6 hitter BA as a cleanup hitter, just to keep perennial 30 HR Jay Bruce from hitting back to back lefty 3-4 hitters with Votto...Dusty's 2 hole "hitters" hit less than .230 for most of the season, and although Choo and Votto, leading the NL in OBP all year made BP's otherwise mediocre offensive year seen more impressive with 100RBI, it cost Votto 25 RBI, and probably kept fellow 100RBI hitter Jay Bruce from MVP contention, and worse, exposed the Reds already porous lineup as one that was easily pitched around.

BP hit better as a tablesetter, and didnt hit any more HR as a 4 hitter, but he lost a lot on the BA, and more importantly, supported Dusty's lie that no one else could better man the cleanup spot- even though Bruce was clearly the only 4 hitter with enough power to make opposing pitchers consider options on pitching to Votto, and the stats show that a bad hitter between 2 good ones (in the 2 hole) can't be made up for with 18 HR.

I see no reason to trade BP for less than value, especially without an adequate replacement in D or at the plate...this team had the talent to play in October for the last 3 years, completely mismanaged by Dusty...and the Reds can ill afford to start rebuilding now that they've finally rid themselves if Dusty. No one held a gun to BP's head to sign a contract that will surely overpay him before BP is 36 on the last year of contract. The only person that ever lied to BP was Dusty- who told him, and the fans that BP was the best cleanup hitter they had. I suspect the Reds might shop, but I doubt they'll trade BP. I do expect he will be given a role more fitting his skills though, and hopefully with a new manager that actually leads, BP will have fewer opportunities to shoot off his mouth...benifiting BP, the Reds and fans alike.

On the other hand, BP's $50 M contract balance would be a great down payment on a Choo or Elsbury type player, and if they have to keep the only truly untradable contract- Ryan Ludwick gets $9M next year, they could move Billy Hamilton back to the infield in BP's 2b spot.

At any rate, I believe the Reds will try to get better this winter, not sell off.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Geez...it wasn't intended to be in triplicate.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Much of BP's problem is gone-Dusty Baker got fired. Not many managers would choose BP's 2 hitter HR potential and 6 hitter BA as a cleanup hitter, just to keep perennial 30 HR Jay Bruce from hitting back to back lefty 3-4 hitters with Votto...Dusty's 2 hole "hitters" hit less than .230 for most of the season, and although Choo and Votto, leading the NL in OBP all year made BP's otherwise mediocre offensive year seen more impressive with 100RBI, it cost Votto 25 RBI, and probably kept fellow 100RBI hitter Jay Bruce from MVP contention, and worse, exposed the Reds already porous lineup as one that was easily pitched around.

BP hit better as a tablesetter, and didnt hit any more HR as a 4 hitter, but he lost a lot on the BA, and more importantly, supported Dusty's lie that no one else could better man the cleanup spot- even though Bruce was clearly the only 4 hitter with enough power to make opposing pitchers consider options on pitching to Votto, and the stats show that a bad hitter between 2 good ones (in the 2 hole) can't be made up for with 18 HR.

I see no reason to trade BP for less than value, especially without an adequate replacement in D or at the plate...this team had the talent to play in October for the last 3 years, completely mismanaged by Dusty...and the Reds can ill afford to start rebuilding now that they've finally rid themselves if Dusty. No one held a gun to BP's head to sign a contract that will surely overpay him before BP is 36 on the last year of contract. The only person that ever lied to BP was Dusty- who told him, and the fans that BP was the best cleanup hitter they had. I suspect the Reds might shop, but I doubt they'll trade BP. I do expect he will be given a role more fitting his skills though, and hopefully with a new manager that actually leads, BP will have fewer opportunities to shoot off his mouth...benifiting BP, the Reds and fans alike.

I agree with this - the Reds had the talent to go deep, but Dusty really mismanaged things

 

[Redsfan1507]

I believe the Reds discussed a trade of BP a while back- before Atlanta decided in a SS, and the rumor was that the Reds didnt think that Martin Prado and 5th SP was enough to move BP. They signed Uggla, and the contract that BP wound up with was very Uggla like, at the time about as big as any NL 2b had. BP's ill timed whine that Castellini told him that it was all they could pay was somehow misunderstood by BP that it was a lie when they signed MVP Votto to a much larger deal...either BP is too stupid to realize Castellini meant it was all they could pay BP- a gold glove .270 hitting 2b worthy of an Uggla/Utley type contract...not the value of a career .300 hitter coming off an MVP-worth a Pujols/Fielder type contract Votto was being considered for. Jealousy and "swag" and the complete lack of leadership of the Reds led Phillips to the stupid statement...coincidentally or not, just prior to the teams lifeless dive in September.

Dusty Baker was 75% of the problems on this team, including done of BP's. I'd like to see how BP played for a manager that managed more than his daily crossword puzzle before we trade him for a prospect and a middle reliever.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I believe the Reds discussed a trade of BP a while back- before Atlanta decided in a SS, and the rumor was that the Reds didnt think that Martin Prado and 5th SP was enough to move BP. They signed Uggla, and the contract that BP wound up with was very Uggla like, at the time about as big as any NL 2b had. BP's ill timed whine that Castellini told him that it was all they could pay was somehow misunderstood by BP that it was a lie when they signed MVP Votto to a much larger deal...either BP is too stupid to realize Castellini meant it was all they could pay BP- a gold glove .270 hitting 2b worthy of an Uggla/Utley type contract...not the value of a career .300 hitter coming off an MVP-worth a Pujols/Fielder type contract Votto was being considered for. Jealousy and "swag" and the complete lack of leadership of the Reds led Phillips to the stupid statement...coincidentally or not, just prior to the teams lifeless dive in September.

Dusty Baker was 75% of the problems on this team, including done of BP's. I'd like to see how BP played for a manager that managed more than his daily crossword puzzle before we trade him for a prospect and a middle reliever.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Mets need a 2B, Phillips fills that void in our lineup and as a cleanup hitter. What would it take from us to land him?

 

[Cobiemonster]

lol this would be an awful trade for the Reds

 

[redsfan03]

lol this would be an awful trade for the Reds

That "top prospect" would have to be one heck of a prospect. Essentially that trade is sending an overpaid, underachieving, aging player to a team for another overpaid, even more underachieving, aging player. I guess the benefit is that Uggla's only under contract for two more years, so the Reds would be owing $26 mil over the course of 2 years as opposed to $50 mil over the course of 4 years. But his production has sharply declined.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Uggla is awful, can't see them replacing Phillips with Uggla. Think Cinncy would like Murphy/Flores in a package for Phillips?

 

[HammerDown]

Redsfan1507 makes perfect sense. Trading BP would make as much sense as the Pirates trading Cutch - NONE! The Reds don't need Uggla and a prospect, they need a super-solid 2B whose universally loved in the community. He's a foundation piece to build on.

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE. At least wait til the All-Star break.

 

[redsfan03]

Redsfan1507 makes perfect sense. Trading BP would make as much sense as the Pirates trading Cutch - NONE! The Reds don't need Uggla and a prospect, they need a super-solid 2B whose universally loved in the community. He's a foundation piece to build on.

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE. At least wait til the All-Star break.

I think it's more about BP's attitude and the combination of his contract and age as opposed to his production. Yes, his production should be better if he's utilized properly in the lineup. However, there's no denying that his production will naturally drop off as he ages. He'll turn 33 next season, so he's no spring chicken. As for him being "universally loved," I think some Reds fans are getting tired of his act, myself included. I KNOW that the front office is getting tired of his act based on their willingness to dump him. He seems like a self-centered prick who couldn't care less if the team wins as long as he puts up numbers and gets some highlight reel plays in the field. I understand that he signs a lot of autographs and engages the fans on Twitter, but winning should be the priority. If getting rid of BP keeps Choo, I like the tradeoff to be honest. Choo's a better player and slightly younger. That said, obviously the Reds have to find the right deal. Uggla for BP won't cut it.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Trading Phillips would be monumentally retarded. We don't have anyone who can step in at 2B and at some point Hamilton is going to come up and be the CF. Philips on this team gives them the best chance to win.

 

[JohnU]

The idea that the Reds would have to take Uggla off Atlanta's hands is a scribe doing research by looking at the rosters. There's no reason for the Reds to take Uggla unless he was part of a pivot deal where he went somewhere else at once -- aka a 3-way trade.

Hen-Rod can play 2B, probably as well as Izturis can and he's a known hitter. Could be a .270 guy in the bigs if he can get the ABs.

Who is on the roster may affect where Choo goes. Could be, trading BP could entice Choo to stay ... or to go.

Reds need to put a dugout staff in place before they build the 2014 roster.

 

[JohnU]

Uggla is awful, can't see them replacing Phillips with Uggla. Think Cinncy would like Murphy/Flores in a package for Phillips?

Murphy is a nice player.
I don't think the Reds need to trade a 2B for a 2B.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Never say never. Billy Hamilton was an infielder, and could play 2b if that was his ticket to the bigs...and one thing is true in Cincinnati, shooting your mouth off in the media about the fans, other teammates or the owner, and you don't last long. Phillips' went on an ill timed whine, trying to imply because Castellini told him that $70 mil was all they had to offer Phillips, at the time, matching the best NL 2b contract, was somehow slapping him in the face after paying Joey Votto the going rate for MVP caliber 1b the following year.

Well, I have some sad news for Dat Dude..a .270 career hitter that averages 13 SB and 14 HR, even with a couple hold gloves, just isn't worth what Joey Votto makes, here or in NY or LA. Again, BP's "swag" just doesn't match his performance...and it began about the same time as the Reds started looking like a corpse on the field.

I don't know if Phillips will be traded or not, but he needs a manager that will give him a role that fits his skills better than Dusty did, and he needs to appreciate being paid damned well for a middle aged infielder with warning track power, and he should thank Castellini for paying him $25 mil more than the previous owners he's played for would. If he is traded, I hope he takes his dilusional pal Ryan Ludwick with him, where they can try to find fans energetic to cheer for bouncing into weak DP's and tagging players out between their legs while their teams score 2 runs in 3 games against 90 loss teams in route to disappearing at the first playoff opportunity.

I don't like swag without the wag, and I don't like hot dog while losing. I don't like .270 hitters bitching about .300 hitting teammates making more money than them, and I don't like reading about jealousy in a pennant race. I want BP to hit .300, hustle ALL the time, and make TEAM goals instead of personal ones...or I want him to become someone else's disgruntled underperformer. Maybe Walt has similar thoughts...but I don't see Uggla as a solution.

To be honest, if I could only pay to keep BP and lose Choo, or the other way around, I might chose to keep Choo...OF's at 35 do better than 2b at 35.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Murphy is a nice player.
I don't think the Reds need to trade a 2B for a 2B.

Not even for a younger and cheaper one? Yes the production value is not even close, but Murphy will hover around .300 and has solid contact. Glove has gotten much better as well.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I like a lot about BP. I like him as a tablesetter where he's less likely to DP, and where his mediocre power is a bonus, instead of a handicap as a 4 hitter. I like his D, when he's taking outs away, not just posing for the camera. I don't like his constant trash talking off the field, especially when he seems to disappear down the stretch on the field. I think he's being paid to hit .280, play gold glove D and score 100 runs, and him hitting .260 at age 32 makes me uneasy he'll be worth what he's making at age 35. I don't like him composing a verbal axe to grind with ownership that has made historic salary strides, in effect comparing himself to Votto, who in my opinion, is a class above Phillips as a hitter.

In not opposed to replacing Phillips with a lesser player, as long as it provides an opportunity to get or keep an equal or better player at another position, and as long as it makes the team better overall. I don't know what was all involved, but something hit the Reds in September that took the life out of them, and it wasn't the spectacular pitching of the Rockies, Cubs, Mets and Brewers...was BP part of that letdown ? Possible. One thing is certain, there was no apparent leadership pushing them up, at a time where they could have won the division, instead of relaxing into the losing stupor we saw.

This team needs more than just a new manager, especially one that isn't new to the previous staff. They need more than the 4 hitters they had last year, and they need a dominant LHSP. They need to win more of those 1 run games, and avoid the extra inning games, by not committing so much suicide by stupidity, and they need to play more to the strength of the lineup.

It's going to be tough to lose Choo, AND Phillips, and hit better with an ex pitcher as a manager, without adding more than Hamilton. Im hoping for a new coaching staff, and a couple of lineup answers before I'm buying much optimism here.

 

[WvuDieHard]

so here's a quote from Dat Dude: To this day, I’m still hurt. Well, I don’t wanna say hurt. I’ll say scarred. I’m still scarred. It just sucks that it happened. For [Castellini] to sign somebody for $200 million, there must be a new vegetable or fruit coming out that we don’t know about. For him to do something like that and tell me they didn’t have any more money, that’s a lie. But what can I do? I just feel like it was a slap in my face"

This was the quote that will put him on the next train out of Cincy right behind Dustmop.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Here's the truth BP...$72 mil is all a .267 gold glove is worth. A MVP is worth $200 Mil.

A Chevy is $25k a Caddillac $60 K.

Get it ?