Reason Browning and Siemian Struggling

[CrashDavisSports]

Bengals, Joe Burrow keep trendsetting next wave of NFL offenses

Few can do what the Bengals do to counter defenses that have been catching up to league trends.

bengalswire.usatoday.com

Because the offense is complicated as hell and it is liquid based on team, defense and tendencies and Burrow is the only one smart enough to run it.

 

[cincygrad]

Bengals, Joe Burrow keep trendsetting next wave of NFL offenses

Few can do what the Bengals do to counter defenses that have been catching up to league trends.

bengalswire.usatoday.com

Because the offense is complicated as hell and it is liquid based on team, defense and tendencies and Burrow is the only one smart enough to run it.

Ben Solak was talking about the same thing on a podcast the other day. He was pointing out that it is ridiculous that a QB could go from one year being one of the best big-play QBs in the league (2021) and the next year being one of the most efficient without big plays (2022). And that they had to do it because of the D. Basically he was arguing that QBs tend to be one or the other and they don't really reinvent themselves within one season. Burrow is built different.

All that said, you would figure the Bengals offensive minds could build a damn system that would work with back-ups. They could at least have a base that would be friendly to a certain type of QB.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Ben Solak was talking about the same thing on a podcast the other day. He was pointing out that it is ridiculous that a QB could go from one year being one of the best big-play QBs in the league (2021) and the next year being one of the most efficient without big plays (2022). And that they had to do it because of the D. Basically he was arguing that QBs tend to be one or the other and they don't really reinvent themselves within one season. Burrow is built different.

All that said, you would figure the Bengals offensive minds could build a damn system that would work with back-ups. They could at least have a base that would be friendly to a certain type of QB.

Only problem with that is, now you are making the rest of the team dumb down their playbooks to accommodate a backup QB. Granted, it doesn't have to be quite so complicated, but this gives you a glimpse of our future without Burrow. I hope Taylor can reinvent the offense with a new signal caller when that time comes.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's hard when your QB1 is a top 5 guy, and the rest are...well..backups. The plan for the offense is vastly different.

That being said, I also think it's hard to really see what happens when things are "live" in a game because we see the backups playing with...well...backups. Understandable that it is against other backups as well, but getting most of the reps through the week with 1's (even split, I assume) while Burrow is held out, and then going out there to live bullets with guys who won't be on the team in another 2 weeks likely doesn't help the flow.

 

[cincygrad]

It's hard when your QB1 is a top 5 guy, and the rest are...well..backups. The plan for the offense is vastly different.

That being said, I also think it's hard to really see what happens when things are "live" in a game because we see the backups playing with...well...backups. Understandable that it is against other backups as well, but getting most of the reps through the week with 1's (even split, I assume) while Burrow is held out, and then going out there to live bullets with guys who won't be on the team in another 2 weeks likely doesn't help the flow.

It also appears that the Bengals put more value on seeing guys in different positions than they do on showing perfect execution of the offense. There have been a lot of O-linemen playing in different positions during games - Scharping at center, Cody Ford all over the place, Carman at both tackle slots, etc. They seem more interested in assessing their position versatility than they are in assessing the structure and function of their offense.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It also appears that the Bengals put more value on seeing guys in different positions than they do on showing perfect execution of the offense. There have been a lot of O-linemen playing in different positions during games - Scharping at center, Cody Ford all over the place, Carman at both tackle slots, etc. They seem more interested in assessing their position versatility than they are in assessing the structure and function of their offense.

Agreed. That also does not help. The QB, or the RB's...lol

I think having those options are good, it allows for more roster flexibility - but at the same time, you still want to be sure whatever their primary backup position is - they are ready to fill that role.

I understand no one wants an injury in the pre-season, but going into week 1 without having had any live game reps is....well, it is what it is...I'd like to have seen at least a series, or two. Especially since you have a new LT, RT, a second year LG and the potential of starting a backup QB week 1...and if the primary backup RB is Brown - him getting some reps behind the 1st OL wouldn't have been a bad thing.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Agreed. That also does not help. The QB, or the RB's...lol

I think having those options are good, it allows for more roster flexibility - but at the same time, you still want to be sure whatever their primary backup position is - they are ready to fill that role.

I understand no one wants an injury in the pre-season, but going into week 1 without having had any live game reps is....well, it is what it is...I'd like to have seen at least a series, or two. Especially since you have a new LT, RT, a second year LG and the potential of starting a backup QB week 1...and if the primary backup RB is Brown - him getting some reps behind the 1st OL wouldn't have been a bad thing.

I may differ on this part...I think the running game is fully dictated by the oline still. That is why RB's are not getting the contracts they used to. RB is told, you run between these two guys, if for some reason that hole is not there, use instincts to find a seam and plow through it. A RB at an NFL level usually doesn't h ave an issue running the ball if the blocking generates any kind of hole to squirm through. That is why I don't think any of the RB's need to practice with particular oline. They are not looking for tendencies of the oline, they are not looking for speed of an oline, they are not looking at drive and power.....they just simple are told, this is your direction, run through a hole.

Now, not all RB's are created equal, as some have great speed, some great power, some great vision or instincts....and the great ones have it all. However, the greatest RB's now a days with the speed of the defenders will still lose yardage if they are getting hit in the backfield. So whether your a rookie or a 7 year vet who can do it all, you ain't getting squat without a hole.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I may differ on this part...I think the running game is fully dictated by the oline still. That is why RB's are not getting the contracts they used to. RB is told, you run between these two guys, if for some reason that hole is not there, use instincts to find a seam and plow through it. A RB at an NFL level usually doesn't h ave an issue running the ball if the blocking generates any kind of hole to squirm through. That is why I don't think any of the RB's need to practice with particular oline. They are not looking for tendencies of the oline, they are not looking for speed of an oline, they are not looking at drive and power.....they just simple are told, this is your direction, run through a hole.

Now, not all RB's are created equal, as some have great speed, some great power, some great vision or instincts....and the great ones have it all. However, the greatest RB's now a days with the speed of the defenders will still lose yardage if they are getting hit in the backfield. So whether your a rookie or a 7 year vet who can do it all, you ain't getting squat without a hole.

I get what you are saying...and I do think there is some truth to this.

However, I also believe there is still value there because not every OL blocks the same way. You start to learn what guys do in certain situations, and you start to anticipate those things as plays unfold.

So, while yes, I do agree that RB's are told to run here/there and there is a sameness to that approach, not all OL block the same where, and there is a rhythm that comes with playing with one another over time.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I get what you are saying...and I do think there is some truth to this.

However, I also believe there is still value there because not every OL blocks the same way. You start to learn what guys do in certain situations, and you start to anticipate those things as plays unfold.

So, while yes, I do agree that RB's are told to run here/there and there is a sameness to that approach, not all OL block the same where, and there is a rhythm that comes with playing with one another over time.

Of course you got to play within the scheme your oline blocks in. I just think it is pretty straight forward, the running part. The route running and catching is different. Same with pass blocking ability from the RB position.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Of course you got to play within the scheme your oline blocks in. I just think it is pretty straight forward, the running part. The route running and catching is different. Same with pass blocking ability from the RB position.

Right, I'm just saying there are intricacies within the OL that experience teaches the RB how to read the hole.

I.E. - edge blitzer comes in, and someone like Brown is the guy picking him up. Does he ride him wide, does he prefer to turn the guy inside - what is his "style" and typical reaction. When a hole starts to close on a particular play, do the Guards crash down more, or kick out more? There's a lot of small things that, I think, a lot of people don't think about when it comes to RB's and OL play. It's more than just "run here" and then the OL is supposed to block there.

Just like when defenses bring stunts, twists, extra guys, or drop extra guys back...that communication between OT and OG is such a key - and you start learning without even having to talk that "when this happens, he's passing his guy off to me"...etc...etc...

 

[DanBengalfan]

because it's the preseason.


this is their chance to get full speed reps on certain plays, and they can review the results on film and build from there. they don't need to do "great"

if one of them can go on the practice squad (browning I guess) great, otherwise we keep one and the other may end up released.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

because it's the preseason.


this is their chance to get full speed reps on certain plays, and they can review the results on film and build from there. they don't need to do "great"

if one of them can go on the practice squad (browning I guess) great, otherwise we keep one and the other may end up released.

I just read an article that Brandon Allen is going to be the odd man out in SF, so Allen may be available and a reunion with the other two QB's struggling is a real possibility. Thoughts? I was not a big Allen fan myself. I was really hoping one would take this chance and run with it. I think it is getting close to needing a quality backup for the next several years. Maybe draft one to groom in the 3rd round next year? I know that is a premium draft slot, but hell, if Burrow gets hurt, that is THE premium position. We need something that we can live with if that disaster ever happens again.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I just read an article that Brandon Allen is going to be the odd man out in SF, so Allen may be available and a reunion with the other two QB's struggling is a real possibility. Thoughts? I was not a big Allen fan myself. I was really hoping one would take this chance and run with it. I think it is getting close to needing a quality backup for the next several years. Maybe draft one to groom in the 3rd round next year? I know that is a premium draft slot, but hell, if Burrow gets hurt, that is THE premium position. We need something that we can live with if that disaster ever happens again.

I think there's a real good chance this happens, and I'm here for it.

Why?

Continuity. Allen knows the offense. Between the guys currently on the roster, Allen has a clear leg up. Don't blame him for looking for a bigger chance...but as it happens, he's a heck of a backup, does have a couple of wins under his belt here...I think it makes total sense.

You sign Allen, you P.S. Browning, and say thanks to Trevor for coming in, we have some lovely parting gifts on his way out....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think there's a real good chance this happens, and I'm here for it.

Why?

Continuity. Allen knows the offense. Between the guys currently on the roster, Allen has a clear leg up. Don't blame him for looking for a bigger chance...but as it happens, he's a heck of a backup, does have a couple of wins under his belt here...I think it makes total sense.

You sign Allen, you P.S. Browning, and say thanks to Trevor for coming in, we have some lovely parting gifts on his way out....

I really loved what I saw out of Reid Sinnett when he played against us when on the Miami squad. Kind of excited to see how he does in the end of the 3rd quarter through 4th quarter. We need someone that can help keep us alive if Burrow goes down for a month. God forbid he does, but right now, that is a death sentence for this team. I know backups are backups for a reason, but they have to be serviceable.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I really loved what I saw out of Reid Sinnett when he played against us when on the Miami squad. Kind of excited to see how he does in the end of the 3rd quarter through 4th quarter. We need someone that can help keep us alive if Burrow goes down for a month. God forbid he does, but right now, that is a death sentence for this team. I know backups are backups for a reason, but they have to be serviceable.

Agreed...why I would take Allen back.

There's no illusion there, but his familiarity with the offense, and a solid OL, running game, and the WR's...he would be servicable.

Then again - Maybe Trevor would be better if he also got to play with the 1's instead of a bunch of borderline roster guys....hard to tell....I think Browning ends up back on the PS regardless because the Bengals like him, want to develop him, and can likely keep him there fairly safe.

The big thing Trevor has - actual game experience at the NFL level, and winning some games.

 

[cincygrad]

I thought Trevor would be better than he has been. He has a good arm and (as pointed out) he has experience. I can't really think of a preseason with these coaches where the offense has actually looked good, so I guess it's really hard to judge.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I think there's a real good chance this happens, and I'm here for it.

Why?

Continuity. Allen knows the offense. Between the guys currently on the roster, Allen has a clear leg up. Don't blame him for looking for a bigger chance...but as it happens, he's a heck of a backup, does have a couple of wins under his belt here...I think it makes total sense.

You sign Allen, you P.S. Browning, and say thanks to Trevor for coming in, we have some lovely parting gifts on his way out....

possible. if we have to waive Browning, someone may wish to make use of his "raw talent" as a backup. and we may end up picking up allen. I suppose Trevor has to be on the active roster if he stays.

 

[DanBengalfan]

MSN

www.msn.com

Browning it is.

in any case, we are betting our marbles on Burrow, if he misses significant time, it probably doesn't really matter who is in at QB.

At least Browning has room to improve and grow, and maybe in a few years he may mature enough to be a very stable backup, if not for his college time injury, he would possibly be starting somewhere.

 

[Cincyfan78]

MSN

www.msn.com

Browning it is.

in any case, we are betting our marbles on Burrow, if he misses significant time, it probably doesn't really matter who is in at QB.

At least Browning has room to improve and grow, and maybe in a few years he may mature enough to be a very stable backup, if not for his college time injury, he would possibly be starting somewhere.

I'd say this is true for the vast majority of the NFL. QB goes down, the backup isn't likely to win you a bunch of games...there are a few exceptions to this, and usually it starts with the fact that the starter isn't high end to being with, and they've drafted or signed a capable veteran as backup knowing that they will, possibly, see significant snaps.

The rest of the NFL has a clear cut starter, and the backup is your typical backup...all the eggs are in the basket of the QB not missing significant time.

All this being said...Allen goes from clear-cut #2, to 3rd string emergency QB...have to wonder if he wouldn't have liked to change that decision and stay in Cincinnati...

 

[Cincyfan78]

Listening to George Vogel on a pod...he said he would be SHOCKED if Burrow isn't starting and clearly this injury is nothing like last year where he came in, no work at all, had to put weight back on, etc..etc....In this one, Burrow has been working like normal on the side, or in private...calf hasn't had the sleeve on in several weeks....