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Lake Shore Drive

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agree with most. but i don't like the idea of assuming bummer will be much of a closer. if you think your team is "on the verge" of seriously challenging then why would you let one of the best closers in the game go? bummer has stuff etc. but NO track record of closing (exactly 1 save in 4 years). please ... someone explain your logic to me.

also collings should not ever be expected to be even a 2nd string catcher. i recall reading he just doesn't have the stuff for it before he was drafted and imo nothing has changed! he'll be a dh at best and i don't believe he's a major leaguer at all.
That was my concern about Bummer - does he have the goods to close out a game. I think he does, but I'm not sure we can bank the season on this. I still prefer that he remains our top setup guy, but that means someone has to step up as the closer, either in house or if the Sox sign someone.

I'm definitely in the camp of those who feel Collins is on the verge of being a total bust. To me, without question, this is a make or break year for him. Like Mingo said, the Sox may want to start him in the minors to see how he works out. I guess for him, his only shot at making the roster when the team breaks camp is if the Sox choose not to sign a backup catcher. That would tell me the job is his...........for the time being.
 

Mingo

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agree with most. but i don't like the idea of assuming bummer will be much of a closer. if you think your team is "on the verge" of seriously challenging then why would you let one of the best closers in the game go? bummer has stuff etc. but NO track record of closing (exactly 1 save in 4 years). please ... someone explain your logic to me.

also collings should not ever be expected to be even a 2nd string catcher. i recall reading he just doesn't have the stuff for it before he was drafted and imo nothing has changed! he'll be a dh at best and i don't believe he's a major leaguer at all.

My thought is Colome is headed for regression at his age. He may be signable for $10 million for year for a two year deal. If the Sox wait out the market for Colome they may get him at $8 million a year for two years - or lose him. Colome lives on the edge as a closer allowing base runners on almost every outing -when the moment comes that he has lost his stuff - we will all wonder why we trusted him in the first place.

Bummer has pitched for 4 years out of the bullpen - and has gotten better each year. He has closer stuff and has shown to have the temperament of a closer having pitched well in pressure situations. It is unusual for a bullpen pitcher - not a closer - improve every year for 4 years - those guys are the class of players who are ready to become closers.

Maybe I didn't understand what I wrote, but I don't think what I wrote supported Zach Collins - I merely said he needs to prove himself in the minors - playing everyday.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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An almost congratulations to Rick Hahn, who finished second in the Executive of the Year to Dodgers team Prez, Andrew Friedman. Maybe this coming year Rick, especially if you make the right moves!!
 

Lake Shore Drive

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So let me ask the stud regulars in here this question. It turns out Edwin Encarnacion has been quoted that he intends to play in '21. Doesn't mean a team will sign him, but he does intend to play. So here's the question. Would anyone here be interested in re-signing him at a fraction of his previous salary or at most, an incentive-laden contract? Just so we're clear, there is absolutely nothing in the sports world indicating that the Sox are interested. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero. This is simply a curiosity question I'm throwing out here just for conversation's sake. Obviously, if there was even the slightest interest from the Sox, it's because they failed to sign anyone this offseason AND they're hesitant at the idea of bringing Vaughn north when breaking camp. Hopefully, at least one of those latter scenarios take place - we either sign a key FA or they feel Vaughn is ready for the bigs.
 

idseer

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So let me ask the stud regulars in here this question. It turns out Edwin Encarnacion has been quoted that he intends to play in '21. Doesn't mean a team will sign him, but he does intend to play. So here's the question. Would anyone here be interested in re-signing him at a fraction of his previous salary or at most, an incentive-laden contract? Just so we're clear, there is absolutely nothing in the sports world indicating that the Sox are interested. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero. This is simply a curiosity question I'm throwing out here just for conversation's sake. Obviously, if there was even the slightest interest from the Sox, it's because they failed to sign anyone this offseason AND they're hesitant at the idea of bringing Vaughn north when breaking camp. Hopefully, at least one of those latter scenarios take place - we either sign a key FA or they feel Vaughn is ready for the bigs.
hoping vaughn IS ready.
as for edvardo .... imo he owes us a season. IF no one else signs him (and some sucker will) a low initial pay highly incentive-laden contract would make the most sense. if he doesn't like it he can take a hike.
 

Jiddy

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I don't think a rational argument could be made for Edwin Encarnacion paying us for a roster spot next year.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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hoping vaughn IS ready.
as for edvardo .... imo he owes us a season. IF no one else signs him (and some sucker will) a low initial pay highly incentive-laden contract would make the most sense. if he doesn't like it he can take a hike.
Gotta say, that was a great line iddy - loved it! Trust me, I too hope Vaughn is ready and I've been reading here and there that the Sox brass feel he will be. But I also have to admit that I'm a bit nervous about bringing the kid up with so little minors experience and of course missing all of it this past season.
 

idseer

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Gotta say, that was a great line iddy - loved it! Trust me, I too hope Vaughn is ready and I've been reading here and there that the Sox brass feel he will be. But I also have to admit that I'm a bit nervous about bringing the kid up with so little minors experience and of course missing all of it this past season.
it's a bit of a gamble but it's been done successfully many times with kids younger than him. assuming he's been keeping himself in shape and he has the right attitude i'd think he could do this.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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it's a bit of a gamble but it's been done successfully many times with kids younger than him. assuming he's been keeping himself in shape and he has the right attitude i'd think he could do this.
Definitely agree. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and to cement the idea further, perhaps the single biggest reason the Sox took Vaughn in that draft was because they felt he possessed the quickest path to the Majors. That was reported in a number of articles. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still be a bit nervous, but I do feel if anyone can play next year with so little time in minor league ball, it's this kid.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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Not sure if this is more applicable to random thoughts or the offseason, but who cares. Here's a couple of ditties on the upcoming Rule 5 Draft and how the Sox may proceed. Some of the info is duplicate or overlapping:


 

Jiddy

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Gotta say, that was a great line iddy - loved it! Trust me, I too hope Vaughn is ready and I've been reading here and there that the Sox brass feel he will be. But I also have to admit that I'm a bit nervous about bringing the kid up with so little minors experience and of course missing all of it this past season.

If the one of the top prospects in baseball can’t hit over .167 after a season in the minors and a spring training, then he sucks. Story needs no further chapters
 

Lake Shore Drive

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If the one of the top prospects in baseball can’t hit over .167 after a season in the minors and a spring training, then he sucks. Story needs no further chapters
Well, of course agreed, but while hitting .200 is definitely better than .167, that would still suck. We shouldn't be using Encarnacion's stats as some kind of benchmark.
 

Mingo

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I suspect the Sox might make a trade with the Rangers. The Rangers are in a rebuild situation and have a very good pitcher in Lance Lynn sitting there with a year left on his contract. Lynn is 33. So why Lynn?

1) He is a very decent pitcher who can eat innings and provide a good role model for the younger pitchers.
2) He has one year on his contract, but I think will like to sign a couple year extension.
3) He was drafted by the Cardinals in 2008 -and pitched for La Russa in 2011.
4) Hahn's best baseball buddy counterpart is Jon Daniels with the Rangers - Daniels is the deal maker.
5) The Sox have some young pitchers in the system -that will entice a rebuilding Rangers team and the Sox plan to add a couple of veteran pitchers for the pennant run -which will log jam the starters rotation for a few years.
6) I think Kopech - Dunning and Cease are not touchable, but then there's Lambert, Stievers, Kelly, Thompson and Dalquist.
7) The Rangers need a middle infielder for the rebuilt - Anderson is still young as short, but the Sox have two SS in their top 30 in Yobert Sanchez and Lynen Sosa.
8) One pitching prospect and one middle infielder and you get Lance Lynn for a year for the possibility of a couple year extension.

Hopefully - the Sox will not be enticed to try Joey Gallo RF - LH for home run power they didn't get from Mazara - Gallo may hit 40 hrs, but he KOs in the 30-45% range, but if they can get Gallo for throwing in Rey Lopez -that might be a deal since the Sox can protect him better in the lineup and the Rangers can't.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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I suspect the Sox might make a trade with the Rangers. The Rangers are in a rebuild situation and have a very good pitcher in Lance Lynn sitting there with a year left on his contract. Lynn is 33. So why Lynn?

1) He is a very decent pitcher who can eat innings and provide a good role model for the younger pitchers.
2) He has one year on his contract, but I think will like to sign a couple year extension.
3) He was drafted by the Cardinals in 2008 -and pitched for La Russa in 2011.
4) Hahn's best baseball buddy counterpart is Jon Daniels with the Rangers - Daniels is the deal maker.
5) The Sox have some young pitchers in the system -that will entice a rebuilding Rangers team and the Sox plan to add a couple of veteran pitchers for the pennant run -which will log jam the starters rotation for a few years.
6) I think Kopech - Dunning and Cease are not touchable, but then there's Lambert, Stievers, Kelly, Thompson and Dalquist.
7) The Rangers need a middle infielder for the rebuilt - Anderson is still young as short, but the Sox have two SS in their top 30 in Yobert Sanchez and Lynen Sosa.
8) One pitching prospect and one middle infielder and you get Lance Lynn for a year for the possibility of a couple year extension.

Hopefully - the Sox will not be enticed to try Joey Gallo RF - LH for home run power they didn't get from Mazara - Gallo may hit 40 hrs, but he KOs in the 30-45% range, but if they can get Gallo for throwing in Rey Lopez -that might be a deal since the Sox can protect him better in the lineup and the Rangers can't.
Good work, Detective Mingo!!! I wanted Lynn in a trade this past season when we could have had him longer than what will now be a one year rental. There was talk that the Sox were one of the teams that contacted the Rangers regarding a trade, but those bozos wanted too much in return. They obviously failed to realize that his trade value was much greater then than it is now. No way should we include any of our top pitching prospects unless Hahn can work an extension prior to the trade. And I particularly highlighted Kelley's name (I'm sure you meant him) to emphasize that he should be as untouchable as Kopech, Crochet, Dunning, and Cease at this point.
 

Mingo

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Good work, Detective Mingo!!! I wanted Lynn in a trade this past season when we could have had him longer than what will now be a one year rental. There was talk that the Sox were one of the teams that contacted the Rangers regarding a trade, but those bozos wanted too much in return. They obviously failed to realize that his trade value was much greater then than it is now. No way should we include any of our top pitching prospects unless Hahn can work an extension prior to the trade. And I particularly highlighted Kelley's name (I'm sure you meant him) to emphasize that he should be as untouchable as Kopech, Crochet, Dunning, and Cease at this point.
Likely the Rangers would want a Stievers or Lambert - closer to MLB ready. I'll give you Kelley back to the Sox for making a good case.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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Likely the Rangers would want a Stievers or Lambert - closer to MLB ready. I'll give you Kelley back to the Sox for making a good case.
Hahaha, I'm glad we can come to a happy agreement. The funny thing is you were the one who introduced Kelley to this board. He really wasn't on my radar at the time, but you made a pretty damn good case for taking him with our 1st pick, which is why I was so deliriously happy that he fell in our laps in round 2. Not saying of course that the kid is untouchable, but I think we'd need to get a damn good pitcher with more than a season of commitment in order to part with him. Kelley is probably 2-3 years away from making the roster, but I'm really excited to see what he'll bring to the table when he does arrive.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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ESPN showing some White Sox luv - we're getting the first Sunday Night telecast for the '21 season. Cub fans will probably file a lawsuit.

 

Mingo

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Hahaha, I'm glad we can come to a happy agreement. The funny thing is you were the one who introduced Kelley to this board. He really wasn't on my radar at the time, but you made a pretty damn good case for taking him with our 1st pick, which is why I was so deliriously happy that he fell in our laps in round 2. Not saying of course that the kid is untouchable, but I think we'd need to get a damn good pitcher with more than a season of commitment in order to part with him. Kelley is probably 2-3 years away from making the roster, but I'm really excited to see what he'll bring to the table when he does arrive.
If you look at the math - a guy with Kelley's experience and even talent - still faces long odds on making it in the majors. He did, however, make to Schaumberg - which tells you the Sox think he is special.
 

Lake Shore Drive

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If you look at the math - a guy with Kelley's experience and even talent - still faces long odds on making it in the majors. He did, however, make to Schaumberg - which tells you the Sox think he is special.
Way, way more often than not we seem to be on the same page with our attitudes and opinions, and once again I couldn't agree more. No prospect is ever a guarantee and it seems that applies in particular to pitchers and especially when they're fresh out of high school. There's no crystal ball out there confirming Kelley to be one of our top starters come '23 or '24. But at least he has the goods at his age and we can only hope that he continues to blossom into a one-day regular in the rotation.
 

Jiddy

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Well, of course agreed, but while hitting .200 is definitely better than .167, that would still suck. We shouldn't be using Encarnacion's stats as some kind of benchmark.

I wouldn't use his stats as a benchmark for ass-wiping...but if anyone is contemplating bringing him back then he most definitely is the benchmark in regards to whether or not we should-as compared to our options.

We could supplant his .167 hitting ass with one of the top prospects in baseball and the argument is that the prospect may crumble because he was brought up too early? Nah...I'll take whatever the prospect gives, because (1) if it's really worse than Encarnacion then good, let's get him off of our radar asap because he's going nowhere and (2) even if he struggles to a lesser degree than Edwin, I never bought into the idea that a player just never recovers if they had a bad first year or two. If they're any good, they can and will flourish...regardless of age and/or experience. It may take a little, but bringing them out early is not a death toll.

Anyone that is brought in as a free agent, well, each of those would be compared to Edwin on their own individual merit.

Soup to nuts: I don't think there can be a worse choice unless Edwin himself rights the ship dramatically, and that would be a leap of faith move way more than a rational one. Hitting .167 at 37 years old is not one of those "oh yeah, this guy still has something in the tank" moments.
 
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