Projecting the 2017 QB Market

[Sportster 72]

Why people don't understand that you don't predict a guys career after 4 or 5 games is beyond me. Nick Foles looked like the real deal too. Maybe they are studs, maybe they aren't.

 

[reptec101]

If the season ends and KC play is indicitive of these first five then the Skins would def be in a bind, but heres why they shouldn't kick him out of bed because of an average year. He's good enough to give you a chance. Yes, he gave Dallas the game and tried to give it to Baltimore, but he also plays well enough to bring home some wins. If we keep drafting or trading or picking up other teams hero's of the day we will never move forward. Garoppolo or how ever you spell his name is with a winning team and a great coach and a better scheme. Doesn't mean he does well here. Not worried about Wentz and Prescock just yet. Dallas run game has opened up wide open receivers for him to shine with and neither has faced adversity yet. Actually, Wentz did last week with a game on the line and threw a pic. Not discounting either just saying give it time.

This team needs a better running game, is all, and watch KC begin to excel. Suddenly things open up down the field as it is happening in Dallas right now. When teams play us LB's are staying back for the most part with coverage help. Give me a great front line and ill show you a great QB. If KC stays average like this I say keep him pay him what he wants and work on your front line and RB situation. We need a quick shifty running back not just a big bruiser. Hate to say it but Dallas has done it right and Dak is benefitting from it.

The answer is not always just "lets put another QB behind center that will work"... sometimes the answer to any problem lies deeper.

 

[skinsdad62]

well lets speculate the other way , what if the team wins 9-10 games and makes the playoffs ? or is contending all the way to the end ?

then what ?

 

[j_y19]

well lets speculate the other way , what if the team wins 9-10 games and makes the playoffs ? or is contending all the way to the end ?

then what ?

Then Kirk probably gets to write his own check.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Why people don't understand that you don't predict a guys career after 4 or 5 games is beyond me. Nick Foles looked like the real deal too. Maybe they are studs, maybe they aren't.

I never said it was a done deal. But given how he has played, and understanding just how a good QB can totally turn a team around, it's not exactly a great time to trot out the "it's stupid to trade picks for a QB" argument IMO.

 

[j_y19]

I never said it was a done deal. But given how he has played, and understanding just how a good QB can totally turn a team around, it's not exactly a great time to trot out the "it's stupid to trade picks for a QB" argument IMO.

OK, I'll bite. Its stupid to trade picks for a college QB. You want to trade pics for a proven, not over the hill, veteran QB, I'll listen.

 

[Stymietee]

Exactly which is why I said we are screwed either way because there are plenty of teams who see him as a huge upgrade and will make a big offer if he became available.. Sure we should let the season play out but does anyone seeing it playing out any differently than what we know already? Even if he lights it up we are left with an inconsistant QB. It should be obvious by now that this is who Kirk is. Occassional greatness, often pretty good, just a middle of the road NFL starter. Good enough to retain but probably never good enough to excell.

So what choice does the team have but to extend? He is certainly better than the vast majority of QBs we have had over the decades, better than half the starters around the league and better than just about every other option available.

I really can't argue with anything that you've written, however the question remains....based on your assessment does the team pay him 24mil under another franchise tag, a bundle of money in a long term deal or move on in some fashion? If only they can get his signature for a less than market contract (12-15 mil).

 

[skinsdad62]

I really can't argue with anything that you've written, however the question remains....based on your assessment does the team pay him 24mil under another franchise tag, a bundle of money in a long term deal or move on in some fashion? If only they can get his signature for a less than market contract (12-15 mil).

this will have to play out if we contend its hard to move on if not then perhaps we do . i think patience ois in order for now

 

[skinzfan]

KC did a much better job at sticking it in the end zone last year. He needs to improve on that starting Sunday. The jury is still out.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK, I'll bite. Its stupid to trade picks for a college QB. You want to trade pics for a proven, not over the hill, veteran QB, I'll listen.

No it's not if we are using Wentz as the example which is what I have been doing here. Wentz is far and away the biggest difference between the last place Eagles of last year and this years contending Eagle.. If, and agani a big if, he turns out to be this good for the next 15 years it is stupid to claim they would have been better off without him and keeping the picks. Especially considering half of the draft choices would bust anyway.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

this will have to play out if we contend its hard to move on if not then perhaps we do . i think patience ois in order for now

So lets say Kirk continues to play as many of us think he will, like the way he has this year with an few real good games mixed in. Don't you think that is good enough to retain him given the lack of better options? It's no secret that I think he will always hold us back but I also remember what life was like with Patrick Ramsey and Tony Banks.

To Syymie's point market value for a middle of the pack starting QB is not $12-$15 milion, that is what Ryan Fitzpatrick is being paid. Like it or not it will have to be a much bigger deal than that.

 

[j_y19]

No it's not if we are using Wentz as the example which is what I have been doing here. Wentz is far and away the biggest difference between the last place Eagles of last year and this years contending Eagle.. If, and agani a big if, he turns out to be this good for the next 15 years it is stupid to claim they would have been better off without him and keeping the picks. Especially considering half of the draft choices would bust anyway.

But you are using wentz as your only example. After 5 games. Please. Let the guy play a couple of seasons before we declare him a savior. When else has it worked?

 

[Sportster 72]

No it's not if we are using Wentz as the example which is what I have been doing here. Wentz is far and away the biggest difference between the last place Eagles of last year and this years contending Eagle.. If, and agani a big if, he turns out to be this good for the next 15 years it is stupid to claim they would have been better off without him and keeping the picks. Especially considering half of the draft choices would bust anyway.

You sure you want to go with Wentz is the biggest difference in the Eagles this year over last? Have you seen Bradford's stats or the Vikings record? I think I will go with Chip isn't in Philly this year as the biggest reason.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

But you are using wentz as your only example. After 5 games. Please. Let the guy play a couple of seasons before we declare him a savior. When else has it worked?

Said several tmes now it's too early to say for sure on Wentz. But are you really suggesting the Eagles want a do over on that deal right now? Again it's always a risk but it hasn't been tried all that often either. Know what is a bigger risk? Taking the Rams approach of stock piling draft picks and trying to get by without a good QB. Worked out so badly they were forced to try the opposite approach because the other way was a disaster.

 

[Stymietee]

So lets say Kirk continues to play as many of us think he will, like the way he has this year with an few real good games mixed in. Don't you think that is good enough to retain him given the lack of better options? It's no secret that I think he will always hold us back but I also remember what life was like with Patrick Ramsey and Tony Banks.

To Syymie's point market value for a middle of the pack starting QB is not $12-$15 milion, that is what Ryan Fitzpatrick is being paid. Like it or not it will have to be a much bigger deal than that.

I never said that it was market value, read it again and you'll see that what I actually said was " If only they can get his signature for a less than market contract (12-15 mil)."

 

[j_y19]

Said several tmes now it's too early to say for sure on Wentz. But are you really suggesting the Eagles want a do over on that deal right now? Again it's always a risk but it hasn't been tried all that often either. Know what is a bigger risk? Taking the Rams approach of stock piling draft picks and trying to get by without a good QB. Worked out so badly they were forced to try the opposite approach because the other way was a disaster.

As have I intimated the same thing. So projecting any thoughts about the eagles comfort level at this point is asinine. As for the rams, if you have an idiot making your picks, then it doesn't make any difference. Oh yeah, by the way Bradford is playing this year, the doubly fucked up. They had the picks and the qb. So not the best example.

 

[gkekoa]

No it's not if we are using Wentz as the example which is what I have been doing here. Wentz is far and away the biggest difference between the last place Eagles of last year and this years contending Eagle.. If, and agani a big if, he turns out to be this good for the next 15 years it is stupid to claim they would have been better off without him and keeping the picks. Especially considering half of the draft choices would bust anyway.

Actually the defense is.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As have I intimated the same thing. So projecting any thoughts about the eagles comfort level at this point is asinine. As for the rams, if you have an idiot making your picks, then it doesn't make any difference. Oh yeah, by the way Bradford is playing this year, the doubly fucked up. They had the picks and the qb. So not the best example.

You have been telling me all along that 5 games is too small of a sample size for Wentz, which is true but it was all we had. Now you are using the same 5 games for Bradford, while throwing out the other 5 years of evidence, to proclaim that the Eagles "had the QB" all along. And you call my argument asinine.

For the record the Rams players from our picks were pretty damned good, they got Ogletree and 4 other starters. But it meant nothing when you trot out Sam Bradford or the other stiffs they had playing QB.

 

[j_y19]

You have been telling me all along that 5 games is too small of a sample size for Wentz, which is true but it was all we had. Now you are using the same 5 games for Bradford, while throwing out the other 5 years of evidence, to proclaim that the Eagles "had the QB" all along. And you call my argument asinine.

For the record the Rams players from our picks were pretty damned good, they got Ogletree and 4 other starters. But it meant nothing when you trot out Sam Bradford or the other stiffs they had playing QB.

Yeah, I chuckled at my comment on Bradford also. He will come back to his 5 year avg eventually. Of course, to do that, he will have to lay a few eggs (or get injured, which I what he is really good at). Hopefully, one of those eggs occurs in 4 weeks or so.

It apppears KC is also settling in as middle of the road QB. It's always that one or two boneheaded plays that stop him from being closer to elite. He did some really good things yesterday. He had 4-5 passes that were as good as they get (including the dropped TD by djax). He moved in the pocket much better, he even moved out of the pocket well. He changed plays and blocking schemes at the line successfullly a couple of times. But that effing INT was ridiculous. Good HS qbs know not to throw the ball aloft off your back foot and back pedaling. Especially when we are close to scoring. We had 3 pts locked up. Throw it away, for gods sake.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah, I chuckled at my comment on Bradford also. He will come back to his 5 year avg eventually. Of course, to do that, he will have to lay a few eggs (or get injured, which I what he is really good at). Hopefully, one of those eggs occurs in 4 weeks or so.

It apppears KC is also settling in as middle of the road QB. It's always that one or two boneheaded plays that stop him from being closer to elite. He did some really good things yesterday. He had 4-5 passes that were as good as they get (including the dropped TD by djax). He moved in the pocket much better, he even moved out of the pocket well. He changed plays and blocking schemes at the line successfullly a couple of times. But that effing INT was ridiculous. Good HS qbs know not to throw the ball aloft off your back foot and back pedaling. Especially when we are close to scoring. We had 3 pts locked up. Throw it away, for gods sake.

Thanks for this. When I saw you had responding I as worried we were getting back into an argument everyone is tired of reading.

I'll close by saying you are obviously right, it is too early to evaluate Wentz and trading up for a QB has failed in the past. However understanding just how a good QB can totally change a franchise, and recognizing the fact that your chances of finding a good QB are much much higher in the early first round then they are in rounds 2+ I think it's a mistake to totally dismiss the idea simply because it has failed a few ttimes in the past. It was a long time ago but it clearly worked with Elway in Denver.