POLL: Last throw by Kap to Crabtree

[rjshull]

I've said this before, all you have to do is look at last year's playoffs and the 3 QBs that all faced the Seahawks. That is a very good barometer and a good apples to apples comparison.

Brees @ Seattle
Kaepernick @ Seattle
Manning vs Seattle at neutral stadium, but outside still and in about the same weather as Seattle (a little colder, a little more frozen and a little less wet)

If I had to rank how the 3 QBs did, I would say Kaep performed the best, with Brees really close behind at #2, and Manning a sucky distant 3rd. Also if you asked me which teams has the most dynamic offenses and the most dynamic pieces on offense, I would rank the Broncos, Saints, then 49ers. Broncos offensive weapons looks like a Pro Bowl roster, Saints are solid too, our offensive weapons are decent.

Plus Kaep has some nice playoff wins on his belt already (2 GB games, ATL game last year, etc.)

I agree with your Position rankings, but not on the performance. I think that even though his team was decimated I think Manning had the best game, but he faced the Seattle D at the worst time possible, The single best game that unit ever played was in the SB, and utterly destroyed Manning and the Broncos. IF Manning had more time under in the pocket it would have been a different game, the OL gave that game away. I follow Manning up with Brees then Kap. For whatever reason, every time Kap goes to Seattle he seems to fall apart, and I watched it again during the NFCCG. I do not think he has the skills to be anything more than Smith. By the end of your 3rd year you typically end up showing what you are made of, either you are a superstar, or you are not. He is a serviceable QB but he will never be anything special.

 

[rjshull]

Given some of the discussion about Kap, I wonder how people would view Wilson if he had lost the Niners' game. A lot of people - <cough> the entire Seattle metro area <cough> - seem to think Wilson has arrived as an elite QB. I don't see him as being much further along than Kap, if at all.

Between the Saints regular season win and the Super Bowl, he was frankly bad. Five passing TDs and four INTs in six games. Three fumbles (granted only one lost). Twenty-one sacks. An average of 161 passing yards and 19 rushing yards a game. His best game passing yardage-wise was his 215 yards against the Niners in the NFCCG - and I think anyone who watched that game can attest that even those yardage numbers were probably inflated a bit as his two biggest passes came on absolutely bone-headed defensive plays. Lucky for him that his D never allowed more than 19 points (15.4 average) in that span.

Wilson ends the year with a win in which he played very well - though his defense was absolutely dominant from the first play - and everyone forgets his struggles to end last season. Now, just like Kap, there's every reason to believe he will continue to improve. And at least in terms of reading the field, I think he's got a leg up on Kap already. But I'm not sold he's the better long-term QB. I'm interested to see how both these guys look in the months and years ahead.

I can agree with your assesment on Wilson, the Hawks fans thing his is a top 3 QB, when in reality he has been bad and if it was not for the beast that is Lynch, and the D they would not have been close to the SB. At this point he is the the Trent Dilfer of Seattle. But who knows what he can turn into.

 

[Rvnight18]

I agree with your Position rankings, but not on the performance. I think that even though his team was decimated I think Manning had the best game, but he faced the Seattle D at the worst time possible, The single best game that unit ever played was in the SB, and utterly destroyed Manning and the Broncos. IF Manning had more time under in the pocket it would have been a different game, the OL gave that game away. I follow Manning up with Brees then Kap. For whatever reason, every time Kap goes to Seattle he seems to fall apart, and I watched it again during the NFCCG. I do not think he has the skills to be anything more than Smith. By the end of your 3rd year you typically end up showing what you are made of, either you are a superstar, or you are not. He is a serviceable QB but he will never be anything special.

So you didn't pay attention in the NFC championship game?

 

[rjshull]

Kap isn't an elite QB at this time. I haven't seen even his most ardent fans claim that he is. He has plenty of weaknesses, particularly in terms of reading the field/defense. But he's already a better passer than Vick ever was, IMO (as frustrating as Kap's 58.4 completion percentage was this year, Vick only surpassed that number twice in eleven seasons as a starter). He is what he is: a young and (likely) ascending player whose mental game is not as far along as his physical game. Unlike Vick, there's reason to believe that, between his coach and his work ethic, he will continue to show marked improvement.

only in his second year of playing. In Tom Brady's second year as the starter, he only had three games over 300 yards. He suffered through a four-game losing streak in which he threw seven INTs and the Pats never scored more than 16 points. He was more prolific than Kap was last year (though not by much if we include Kap's running), but he wasn't really any better. Hell, in Brady's third year as the starter, playing with a good D, he only had two games above 300 yards. That's not to say that Kap will become Tom Brady by any means; we just need to maintain some perspective. He's a young player who is still learning the NFL ropes. Comparing him to Peyton Manning simply isn't fair. That said, passing yards aside, he performed better than Manning against the Hawks.

And Incidentally, it's curious you would use the 300-yard stat while arguing for Alex Smith; Smith broke that barrier three times as a 49er, and went 1-2 in those games.

Kap is not a game manager. He has repeatedly taken control of a game late and clinched a win, both in the regular season and the playoffs. He knocked off the Packers twice in the playoffs, including in very adverse conditions in GB, staged a dramatic comeback against both the Falcons and the Ravens last year, and bounced back to have a very solid game against Carolina. His first two seasons of playing have ended in remarkably similar - and similarly frustrating - fashion. But I don't think many young QBs would have even been in position to make a winning throw in those games. Failing to seal the deal against two of the best Ds in the league is not a huge strike to me, particularly when his defense and STs floundered a bit in both of those games (allowing 20+ points in a half in both our most recent playoff losses). If you think he has no future, you're entitled to that opinion. If you think he doesn't deserve $18 million+ a season at this point, I don't disagree. But saying he's proven he isn't the answer is extremely short-sighted IMO.

I think you are wrong, if his fans are saying he is worth $18MM+ per year then they are also saying that he is a Super Star as that is top of the line QB money. Kap has said he is worth $20 Million so he views himself as a SS while Harbaugh says he has not had his breakout year yet. According to this list, if he got the $20MM he wants he would be a top 5 QB, when in reality I do not see him equal or better than anyone that is averaging more than $10MM per except maybe Sam Bradford.
» Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Quarterback

I feel that he is another version of Alex Smith with better wheels and without the ability to read defenses. If that is what we want then we should have kept Smith and traded Kap, I am sure we could have gotten more for Kap in the trade.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I agree with your Position rankings, but not on the performance. I think that even though his team was decimated I think Manning had the best game, but he faced the Seattle D at the worst time possible, The single best game that unit ever played was in the SB, and utterly destroyed Manning and the Broncos. IF Manning had more time under in the pocket it would have been a different game, the OL gave that game away. I follow Manning up with Brees then Kap. For whatever reason, every time Kap goes to Seattle he seems to fall apart, and I watched it again during the NFCCG. I do not think he has the skills to be anything more than Smith. By the end of your 3rd year you typically end up showing what you are made of, either you are a superstar, or you are not. He is a serviceable QB but he will never be anything special.

Are you serious? On 49 passes, Manning had 5.71 YPA. He threw two INTs - including a pick-six - and lost a fumble. His only TD came with the team trailing by 36. He had an absolutely atrocious game. Now, I will agree that he was under quite a bit of pressure, but even when he was not pressured, and when he had open receivers, he was throwing wounded ducks all over the field. He completely collapsed.

Kaepernick produced 283 yards to Manning's 279, and he just did it on 35 touches instead of Manning's 50. He led his team to almost twice the points Manning did (granted the first three points didn't really involve him at all), despite neither team having any run game - clearly a much greater hindrance to the Niners' usual offense. He was poised and effective in the first half, allowing his team to take an unexpected 10-3 lead into halftime. As acknowledged, he did fall apart a little bit in the second half, but he still mounted a comeback and gave his team a chance. Hell, his first half alone was better than anything Manning did in the Super Bowl.

 

[zman1527]

I feel that he is another version of Alex Smith with better wheels and without the ability to read defenses. If that is what we want then we should have kept Smith and traded Kap, I am sure we could have gotten more for Kap in the trade.

Unbelievable. Opinions like this are just un-freaking-believable to me. Kap got us to a SB and almost won and then almost got us there again. In his first 2 years. You could ask for more, but only a little, but you would still be asking for too much.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I can agree with your assesment on Wilson, the Hawks fans thing his is a top 3 QB, when in reality he has been bad and if it was not for the beast that is Lynch, and the D they would not have been close to the SB. At this point he is the the Trent Dilfer of Seattle. But who knows what he can turn into.

See, I wouldn't agree with that, either. He did have a stretch of games toward the end of the season where he was bad. But prior to that, he was keeping them in games (offensively, at least) that they had no business being in. Their OL was appallingly bad for the first half of the season, and without his ability to escape the pocket and make plays downfield, they would have lost several games. Oddly, when the OL improved, he got worse.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I think you are wrong, if his fans are saying he is worth $18MM+ per year then they are also saying that he is a Super Star as that is top of the line QB money. Kap has said he is worth $20 Million so he views himself as a SS while Harbaugh says he has not had his breakout year yet. According to this list, if he got the $20MM he wants he would be a top 5 QB, when in reality I do not see him equal or better than anyone that is averaging more than $10MM per except maybe Sam Bradford.
» Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: Quarterback

I feel that he is another version of Alex Smith with better wheels and without the ability to read defenses. If that is what we want then we should have kept Smith and traded Kap, I am sure we could have gotten more for Kap in the trade.

No, it's not. Flacco, Cutler, Romo, and Stafford all got money in that area. None are Super Star QBs. That is where the "good not great" QB market has gone recently. I don't disagree that it's absurd, but that's the market.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Kap in his first and second seasons as the starter may be comparable to Smith in his seventh. I think it's pretty clear he's done more in terms of carrying the team, but at least there's an argument there. So how was Smith looking in his second year? Oh, that's right, he was god awful. If Smith could make the strides that he has, why do you assume that Kaepernick has peaked? It is very common for QBs to have a sophomore slump. Kaepernick had one. He's got some impressive strengths that Smith, for instance, could never match. He's a smart person and a hard worker. He hasn't learned from his mistakes as quickly as I would like, but again, let's see what he does coming off his second offseason as the starter.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No, it's not. Flacco, Cutler, Romo, and Stafford all got money in that area. None are Super Star QBs. That is where the "good not great" QB market has gone recently. I don't disagree that it's absurd, but that's the market.

I wanted to add that as far as the distribution of money to QBs, that is entirely a product of when a guy comes up for a contract. Not to mention contract structure. For instance, Brady is way down the list, but his entire contract is guaranteed. That presents a lot of value for an older player.

And if you want a stronger argument that Kap is worth a considerable chunk of change, just look at that list after the top-20 guys. You've got a couple very poorly paid starters (Kap, Wilson), and other than that it's garbage. Unless you want to take your chances with Matt Moore, Chad Henne, or Ryan Fitzpatrick. You scoff at Kap only being what Smith is, well Smith is probably looking at something in the ballpark of $14-15 million if he gets a new contract. As said, that's the market today.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Kap in his first and second seasons as the starter may be comparable to Smith in his seventh. I think it's pretty clear he's done more in terms of carrying the team, but at least there's an argument there. So how was Smith looking in his second year? Oh, that's right, he was god awful. If Smith could make the strides that he has, why do you assume that Kaepernick has peaked? It is very common for QBs to have a sophomore slump. Kaepernick had one. He's got some impressive strengths that Smith, for instance, could never match. He's a smart person and a hard worker. He hasn't learned from his mistakes as quickly as I would like, but again, let's see what he does coming off his second offseason as the starter.

I agree wirh your overall assessment of Kaepernick. It is really good. I would also add that the 49ers did not adequately address the wide receiver position when Crabtree went down before last year. Boldin is no longer considered a number 1. The 49ers put their hope that one of AJ Jenkins, Marlon Moore, Quinton Patton., Klwin Williams would step up and none were able to during the season for various reason. A second quality WR during the season wouldnt have made Kap an allpro but could have made enough of a difference to have earned home field for the playoffs which could have been the difference.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I agree wirh your overall assessment of Kaepernick. It is really good. I would also add that the 49ers did not adequately address the wide receiver position when Crabtree went down before last year. Boldin is no longer considered a number 1. The 49ers put their hope that one of AJ Jenkins, Marlon Moore, Quinton Patton., Klwin Williams would step up and none were able to during the season for various reason. A second quality WR during the season wouldnt have made Kap an allpro but could have made enough of a difference to have earned home field for the playoffs which could have been the difference.

Yeah, though when Crabtree went down it was too late to really add anyone. The inability to develop WRs has haunted this coaching staff, and likely will continue to do so until Morton departs. At this point, I just hope that Boldin is basically coaching these younger guys.

 

[yossarian]

See, I wouldn't agree with that, either. He did have a stretch of games toward the end of the season where he was bad. But prior to that, he was keeping them in games (offensively, at least) that they had no business being in. Their OL was appallingly bad for the first half of the season, and without his ability to escape the pocket and make plays downfield, they would have lost several games. Oddly, when the OL improved, he got worse.

That's exactly what I noticed watching the Seahawk games. I think he's best on the run improvising and the talk here was that as teams were taking that away and keeping him in he was less effective. And before I get jumped on by Seahawk fans, I'm not saying he was bad, but just less effective, and that was a common opinion up here. My hope is that Kaepernick just continues to improve. I think he will, people are a lot less patient with quarterbacks these days, but he has the drive and the IQ to improve.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Hey! Looks who's back! Glad to see you.

 

[sjballer03]

Hey! Looks who's back! Glad to see you.

+1

Welcome back Yos!

 

[-AC-]

Welcome back, Yoss!

 

[yossarian]

Thanks guys. Sickness interceded on my behalf. He gets the credit/blame, depending on your perspective. Good to be back.

 

[sjballer03]

Thanks guys. Sickness interceded on my behalf. He gets the credit/blame, depending on your perspective. Good to be back.

Sickness deserves all credit. He's been trying really hard to reunite the band. Ray is the last holdout.

 

[whysies]

From reinstating banned posters to his work with He Who Shall Not Be Named, Sick has been an excellent mod so far, IMO.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Thanks guys. Sickness interceded on my behalf. He gets the credit/blame, depending on your perspective. Good to be back.

Welcome back!!