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politics thread

Discussion in 'Washington Redskins' started by skinsdad62, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. skinsdad62

    skinsdad62 US ARMY retired /mod.

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    Adam Schiff

    Meets with Glenn Simpson, who hired Nellie Ohr and Chris Steele and paid for the Dossier

    -Doesn’t disclose the meeting

    -Says there’s nothing wrong


    REMEMBER: Schiff demanded that Nunes be investigated for meeting with administration officials.


    Double standard?
     



  2. gkekoa

    gkekoa Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is a double standard. They lost to an outsider in what people were expecting a landslide.
     
  3. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    Try to justify his blackface.

    Im pretty sure if you care more about one race than others yea youre a racist.

    That said I agree trump is an asshole who cares more about himself (and maybe his family), than anybody else. But that doesn't preclude him from being racist.
     
    • Bullshit Bullshit x 1
  4. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    That it can be cruel to be forced to live in circumstances that are still common around the world. I think thats pretty objectively true.
     
  5. gkekoa

    gkekoa Well-Known Member

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    Just because you are used to being a spoiled brat, living like others is not cruel.
     
  6. gkekoa

    gkekoa Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn’t preclude him from being a racist. Being capable of hiring the best people in the world to do a job, acknowledging a black man or woman is best for the job, and hiring them to do the job precludes you from being racist. It is an acknowledgement of one race not being superior to another race.
     
  7. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    But, there is not a sufficient volume of credible accusations.

    There is an alarming amount of them. The fact that you dont find them sufficient is on you.

    He settled. So, your best example was settled out of court which proves nothing, as the rich will often settle out of court to avoid negative press.

    So we're just hand waving away that Trump was sued by the DOJ for racial discrimination? Ooookay then.

    BTW you know what would have saved him negative press? Proving the allegations false.



    Why? I don’t know. Neither do you. But you’re instantly willing to chalk it up to racism, with zero evidence.

    No, Im willing to chalk it up to racism with copious evidence. Theres a big difference.


    My point remains. Acquittal does not mean innocent, though, I’ll take your word these men are. Why does Trump maintain? If he still does I can only assume it’s either from being unaware, or stubborn. Both are bad. But, it’s a far cry from racism.

    Your point does not remain. OJ is wildly irrelevant to this and a terrible example for your point.

    Again - you are 1. throwing away yet another potentially racist moment with a hand wave and 2. arguing that hes not racist - hes just dumb.

    I dont agree that the man is exclusively stupid, rather than racist and stupid, but I suppose if his supporters at least began to recognize he was stupid we would be making progress.



    In a court of law, the burden would be on the accuser to prove it true. As to the second, no, you claimed Trump said that….cite WHERE he specifically said it was likely true. And, if so, PROVIDE these employers examples and evidence. Until you do, it’s hearsay and, not evidence of ANYTHING.

    Last time I checked...we arent in a court of law. And we dont need to go to one to confirm somebody's racism. In fact its not even illegal to be racist.

    You dont have to find the book to be singularly damning. But if you dont find it concerning in light of all the examples posted, I dont think you have a genuine interest in digging into trumps potential racism.


    As for dismissing “multiple claims”, the problem there is when you’re as famous, rich, powerful and polarizing as Trump, you’re going to have far more accusations, true or false, than most people ever would. People could lie being disgruntled (Amarosa for example), or looking to hurt Trump career wise or politically, but in a digital age it’s very surprising Trump’s NEVER ONCE been shown saying or doing anything racist, despite “so many” claims from employees apparently he does? If you don’t find that curious, I think you have some questions to ask yourself.


    And yet plenty of other rich powerful people DONT have these problems.

    Trumps said plenty of racist things. You just dont find them racist.



    Words do matter, but so does context.

    Agreed.


    The same reason everyone did…if Obama was not a citizen he could not be President!

    That applies to every candidate. And yet only Obama ran into this problem.


    Probably because it was plausible? His father wasn’t American, he was a bastard of a hippie mother who was often abroad and it wasn’t immediately produced to silence criticism. And, conspiracy in this case grew because it took SO LONG to produce the birth certificate. I could provide mine within the hour. Why was the President unable to do so for so long? It seemed sketchy, so anyone that felt he wasn’t a citizen felt lack of evidence of his authenticity meant he was illegitimate.

    Except it wasnt plausible based on the evidence. It was only plausible to people who saw a black guy named Obama and thought "hey he doesnt seem American."


    Arguable, but I’ll say when I used to use Twitter, I didn’t look at every persons username, much less visit their page to see who they were.

    You wouldnt notice if you were retweeting somebody named "whitegenocideTM"?? And that wouldnt make you say "hmmm"??


    I’ll grant you, the president shouldn’t tweet things out without verifying it first. You must forgive me though if someone not fact checking a tweet is akin to racism, as if it were 99% of Twitter users are.

    See comments like this suggest you dont really care about digging into this.

    You're argument is... "yea he shouldnt have tweeted something without checking the facts, but incorrect facts arent equivalent to racism."

    But thats not what happened. He retweeted a BLATANTLY false graphic about racial violence. Why did he believe it? Why did he not fact check it? Why did he like what it said? Why does he assume (wildly incorrectly) that blacks commit 80% of murders with white victims? Why does he assume the other numbers there are correct?




    On June 2, 2016, Trump told the Wall Street Journal that Curiel had "an absolute conflict" in presiding over the litigation given that he is "of Mexican heritage" and a member of a Latino lawyers’ association. (When Trump said in a separate interview that Curiel "is a member of a club or society, very strongly pro-Mexican" in referfence to the group, PolitiFact National rated his statement Mostly False.) Trump told the journal the judge’s background was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the southern U.S. border. "I’m building a wall. It’s an inherent conflict of interest," Trump said.



    See, this isn’t racist. He wasn’t claiming him unable to judge based on his race but because he’s part of a Mexican-proud organization. It’s nationalistic perhaps and even rude but not racist.

    He quite literally says that because he is Mexican, he is biased and shouldnt preside over his case. That is at best bigoted and xenophobic.


    In ONE example he said that, when, talking quickly to a crowd (and Trump struggles with public speaking anyway), he said “all Muslims”. In hundreds of times before and after he’d say radical Islam, or extreme Islam, etc. Anyone with common sense, anyone not blatantly biased knew he didn’t mean ALL Muslims from anywhere. And, Trump himself came out clarifying he didn’t mean ALL Muslims.

    Thats one time too many. Its not hard to not say blatantly bigoted things like that - unless your trump of course.


    When you take a partial truth and make it a lie, that’s a problem. As stated above, ONE TIME Trump said “all Muslims”. That’s what the left uses to justify the bullshit lie that he means ALL Muslims when he had often before and continually after said me meant Muslims from spheres of islamic terrorism. AS EVIDENT BY THE FACT THAT HE NEVER TRIED BANNING ALL MUSLIMS.

    Except it isnt a partial truth - it is an objective fact that he said that. That isnt up for debate. Saying that is indefensible.


    Aye, your mind is made of regardless of a lack of evidence. Bet you think Kavanaugh tried raping Ford, and the Covington boys started the shit with the old man.

    And yours appears to be made up in spite of evidence.

    Im not sure why you presume to know what I think about either of those topics.



    Racial profiling works. It’s demonstrable. It’s also unethical. So, it’s a complicated practice….doing something wrong, despite it’s effectiveness. it’s just a matter of whether you think it’s justifiable. I’m honestly on the fence on it, to be honest. As for ALLEGEDLY infringing on the rights of criminals, alleged by criminals? I don’t care. Fuck them. Infringing on illegals? They have no rights, as they are not citizens. Treat them humanely, sure, but, if they get upset by it? Who cares?

    Dear god. You do realize that "i dont care about the rights of criminals, screw them, theyre criminals" allows for the government to make who they wish a criminal through whatever means necessary and therefore take away your own rights right?

    Plus theres the whole racial discrimination thing.


    Sigh, if you insist.



    “I think there is blame on both sides. You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.”


    That’s his exact quote. And he’s absolutely right. Literally word for word. Unless you feel there was no one of value on either side, there was an over abundance of white nationalists on the side defending the statues, and an overabundance of antifa, BLM and communists on the side attacking the right. Both sides got violent, both sides looking for a fight. So, Trump’s right. And, the motivations of people on both sides range from hateful, to noble.

    No i dont think there was value in the group of neo nazis.

    Also worth noting that even if you hate communists, antifa, and blm....counterprotesting neo nazis is significantly more admirable than ya know...being a new nazi.



    It’s true. That’s why it’s a good defense.

    Except it doesnt make sense as a defense for the reasons i outlined. Even if true, you cant blame claims of racism on leftists, when non leftists are saying the same thing.


    That is a lie.

    No the eff it is not. You can look this stuff up dude. He has a low approval rating in a strong economy. That entire statement is factual.



    People of many walks of life, races, and political beliefs think he’s NOT a racist, is brilliant, and a great President, and on and on.

    Right. So if i said, "its just the right wingers and right wing media who think he isnt racist" that would be a dumb argument.

    Hence why I pointed out that you saying that was a bad argument.



    No. Leftists is an insult, and progressives are evil. The left, as in democrats and liberals, make up a large portion of the country. Leftists make up a small, but belligerently loud and violent and activist portion of that left side. Leftists are cowards, and human trash. Democrats/liberals are just people….I disagree with them on many things but they’re just folks.

    Progressives are evil? Thats a hot take.


    I’d say it’s the democrats who care more about party than country. And FWIW, plenty of RHINOs have opposed and undermined Trump all along.

    Oh this certainly isnt a problem thats exclusive to one party.

    I would argue its pretty rampant in both parties. The MAGA crowd just being a large and highly visible/guilty offender.
     
    • Bullshit Bullshit x 1
  8. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    EVERY politician is supported by racists! Obama was! It’s just his racists were from the left side of the spectrum. You are foolishly equating racism with ONLY WHITE NATIONALS. White nationals love Trump because Trump is a NATIONALIST. But he’s not a WHITE nationalist. Jesus Christ. You can tell the difference, right?? RIGHT??

    Huh? Did I not just say that if he were just supported by a few racists that wouldnt automatically be his fault? Did you read what I wrote?


    So what? Racism should be condemned/shamed, right? Your words? Why do you feel that only applies to white racism? I’m all for Trump criticizing BOTH sides’ racists.

    Why are you making things up?

    Im all for that too. Its just that trump seems to encourage and incite a very specific group of racists and then struggle with actually condemning them.



    He doesn’t struggle with it. He literally does so EVERY time it’s brought up.

    He does. Theres only been bipartisan (albeit shortlived from the GOP) outrage over his comments on this a handful of times. Hes only had to walk back and clarify his comments a couple times. Totally normal.

    No, that’s ignorant, and excuse me if I won’t let your ignorance and nativity put others in harms way. And fearing a culture of violence IS- NOT - RACISM!

    Yea. THAT'S the ignorant part. Sheesh. Fearing a "culture of violence" that...*check's notes*... commits fewer crimes than native born citizens.



    Wrong. You listed several things, and none of them are verifiable. The closest you have is Trump retweeted a guy named WhiteGenocide’s inaccurate meme. Nothing you provided was damning, and you had to reach to even construe some as, but hoped the number of them would appear to make your case. You can shoot a million blanks of non-evidence at me, or one bullet of evidence, and guess which would kill my argument? Right, the real bullet. Which you don’t have. Firing those blanks might be loud but, harmless, and frankly, just annoying.

    Actually, they're almost all verifiable. You just find it a coincidence that they all happened.


    ILLEGAL immigrants. ILLEGAL. Trump doesn’t shit talk ACTUAL immigrants. Stop lying. Ripping families apart? They make that choice when they risk coming here illegally. Another lie. Making this as difficult as possible? Another lie. He’s done nothing to make actual immigration harder, in fact, the opposite.

    Actually he seems to make most of his comments about immigrants as a whole. Or at least immigrants from the southern border as a whole.

    Those arent lies. You know a lie isnt just a statement you dont like right? Thats a thing thats been happening whether you want to accept it or not.

    He has proposed and implemented policies that would and do cut down on the number of legal immigrants and refugees to this country.

    Which is weird because every trump supporter i talk to insists they just care about illegal immigration. Until you bring this up and point out we should actually be increasing legal immigration.



    He backed a cop you tried to construe as racist. You failed.

    He backed a discriminatory, abusive, and criminal cop. I didnt construe that. You are attempting to construe him as just a random cop. Thats pretty dishonest of you.


    Agreed. But Trump didn’t do that.

    He did.

    You…you didn’t just seriously say that did you?

    Please - tell me what was wrong with that statement.


    No one, to be fair. Just making sure we’re on the same page. It appeared you were equating things like Trump questioning Obama’s origin of birth as racism, when it’s not, so you can see why I’d have to clarify.

    I was equating questioning Obama's origin of birth as racism.

    I was not equating criticism of Obama with racism.

    There's a pretty clear difference there so no I cannot see why you would need to clarify.



    Again, too clarify. Your arguments are poor, and you keep calling things racism that aren’t. By definition. Hence, I’m trying to understand.

    You're intentionally misconstruing my arguments in order to... clarify them?

    I think im pretty clear and i think youre smart enough to know what I meant in my statements. I think you just wanted to dodge actually having to answer them and instead argue against a straw man.

    That said - if I am not clear - just ask for a clarification. Dont make up things I didnt say to argue against.



    True, a subversive would keep it hidden, though most racists are outright racist because they’re, y’know, proud and feel themselves superior? I agree racism comes in many forms, and from every race. My point is, when you hear Trump say he’s not a racist and hates racists you think, “Pfft, closet racist”, rather than take him at his word…and he would be the best authority on what he is and isn’t.

    No I dont think most racists are outright at all. Maybe most of the violently racist folks. But most racist folks are violently racist imo.

    Trump may well not think he's racist. In fact knowing his narcissism trump probably does think he could never ever ever be racist. But...that doesnt make him not racist.
     
    • Bullshit Bullshit x 1
  9. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    Or maybe you can understand how polling works?
     
  10. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    I TOTALLY agree.

    But the freaking President DOES THE SAME EXACT THING.

    And hes got a hell of a lot more power than her.

    If it only bothers you when its from her than you're a partisan hack.
     
  11. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    Dude ive explained this to you countless times.

    I dislike trump because of his actions and words. Its very simple.

    You know full well I present facts to support my arguments. You just dont like them.

    You're welcome to have a discussion with me and call upon facts, but you dont seem interested. Im still waiting on the source of that video remember?
     
    • Bullshit Bullshit x 1
  12. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    Those allegations were not found to be false.

    Its possible I missed something so correct me if I am wrong, but Kavanaugh being confirmed doesnt have anything to do with proving his innocence and to suggest so would be blatant lie.
     
  13. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    So you believe climate change isnt real? Isnt a problem? Is made up?

    Whats your position here?
     
  14. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    What the fuck?

    How is she a terrorist?
     
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  15. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    What? Are we both spoiled brats then?

    And my statement is objectively true. Forcing the conditions that millions of people in the world live in onto somebody could most certainly be inhumane.
     
  16. ehb5

    ehb5 HTTR

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    No it does not.
     
  17. j_y19

    j_y19 ESPN Cast Off

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    What ever happened to self responsibility? No one "forced" them into anything. They made a decision to try and illegally enter this country knowing that if caught, they were going to be held in these conditions. THEY MADE THE DECISION. Place responsibility where it lies. This is exactly the root of the rot that is eating this country from within. No one is responsible for their actions anymore.
     
  18. gkekoa

    gkekoa Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. Let us go back to the day where words had meanings.
     
  19. gkekoa

    gkekoa Well-Known Member

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    Everybody living in the US is spoiled. Brats just don’t realize it.

    Do those conditions actually cause true pain or is it simply discomfort? Sorry, but a little discomfort is not the same as pain. Hell, discomfort can be good for you.

    Were they “beating” their prisoners?

    Were they withholding needed medical treatment?

    Is wearing pink cruel?

    Is mocking an adult cruel?

    Were the prisoners dying? Well, there was one that died because of an altercation with a guard and another was killed by inmates. Is that any different than other jails, except for the rarity?
     
  20. Toadman005

    Toadman005 The Scorpio

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    There is an alarming amount of them. The fact that you dont find them sufficient is on you.



    Wrong.


    So we're just hand waving away that Trump was sued by the DOJ for racial discrimination? Ooookay then.



    And what came of it?



    BTW you know what would have saved him negative press? Proving the allegations false.



    On that I actually agree. I’ve never been someone who feels people should settle if they’re innocent. Years ago, Nick Saban’s daughter was sued by a sorority sister for assault. She went to court. I remember Clay Travis was on Paul Finebaum’s show saying Nick should have settled out of court to keep things quiet as it wasn’t worth the negative press. I called in and took Travis to task using the same logic you use…if innocent, don’t reward/cave. Fight it and win. Travis mocked my nativity (he’s a “lawyer” besides just being a “journalist”). Saban’s daughter WON the suit. So, I maintain my logic, and you share it. But, that doesn’t change the fact that a lawyer suggested settling out of court. This sort of thing happens everyday on advice of counsel. So it proves nothing. But I actually AGREE with you.


    No, Im willing to chalk it up to racism with copious evidence. Theres a big difference.



    But, there is no copious evidence. You’ve given very few examples, and even fewer of them are even subjectively racist, and even then, they’re poor examples.


    Your point does not remain. OJ is wildly irrelevant to this and a terrible example for your point.



    Again - you are 1. throwing away yet another potentially racist moment with a hand wave and 2. arguing that hes not racist - hes just dumb.





    Wasn’t terrible at all, maybe you just don’t understand/follow? Regardless Ill drop the analogy. Trump maintaining his opinion is as likely and far more likely to be because he is stubborn, than he is racist. But since YOU see him as racist, and you suffer from confirmation bias (to be fair, we all do, just to differing degrees), you see this as inarguably racist. It isn’t.


    Last time I checked...we arent in a court of law. And we dont need to go to one to confirm somebody's racism. In fact its not even illegal to be racist.



    Sigh. That’s a pitiful deflection.


    You dont have to find the book to be singularly damning. But if you dont find it concerning in light of all the examples posted, I dont think you have a genuine interest in digging into trumps potential racism.



    “All” the examples you posted? Again, you provided VERY few and NONE of them are good. A disgruntled former employee slandering his boss is a commonplace occourence. Ask an angry scored ex-girlfriend about her former boyfriend, and you’re gonna hear all sorts of things that may be true…and may not be true. But they’re gonna be said to try and harm, either way. The guy who wrote the book was hardly objective, and his quote cannot be verified (when, if true, someone would be able to corroborate it).


    And yet plenty of other rich powerful people DONT have these problems.



    Irrelevant.



    Trumps said plenty of racist things. You just dont find them racist.



    No, you just find things he says racist. You use the term incorrectly. You’ve yet to provide one verifiable quote Trump’s said that is racist. Not. One.


    That applies to every candidate. And yet only Obama ran into this problem.


    Because he’s the only Presidential candidate it really applied to. No one doubted if George W Bush was born American given his father was, y’know President? The Bush family was well known, long empowered, etc. Obama was an unknown politically, and his father is not American, and his hippy whore mother a globetrotter. Questioning Obama’s origin of birth was NOT RACIST, it was a sincere doubt in people’s eyes. You think because Oabam ran into this, and he was “the only one”, it’s chalked up to bigotry, when in reality it was because of the reasons I just mentioned.


    Except it wasnt plausible based on the evidence. It was only plausible to people who saw a black guy named Obama and thought "hey he doesnt seem American."



    Wrong. This is, once again, just your biased opinion, and attributing that motive on others.


    You wouldnt notice if you were retweeting somebody named "whitegenocideTM"?? And that wouldnt make you say "hmmm"??


    I used to retweet based on the tweet, not the handle. I often never looked at the handle. To be fair, the subject matter wasn’t anything along these lines. Regardless, if he DID see the name was WhiteGenocide, so what?




    But thats not what happened. He retweeted a BLATANTLY false graphic about racial violence. Why did he believe it? Why did he not fact check it? Why did he like what it said? Why does he assume (wildly incorrectly) that blacks commit 80% of murders with white victims? Why does he assume the other numbers there are correct?



    Was it blatantly false? Isn’t that subjective? I didn’t see it as blatantly false. As for why he believed it or not fact check it, I don’t know, and it would be conjecture to try. YOU, of course, have no problem doing so, and your conclusion will always come back to “cuz he’s a racist”.


    He quite literally says that because he is Mexican, he is biased and shouldnt preside over his case. That is at best bigoted and xenophobic.



    Sigh. I’m wasting my time here. I could type out a length analogy that would prove otherwise, but why?


    Thats one time too many. Its not hard to not say blatantly bigoted things like that - unless your trump of course.



    Wasn’t blatantly bigoted, and I’ll take hundreds of times he was talking about islamic terror versus one flub where he said “all”.


    Except it isnt a partial truth - it is an objective fact that he said that. That isnt up for debate. Saying that is indefensible.



    Yes, he said it ONE TIME as a mistake, a flub. Anyone and everyone objective acknowledges that.


    And yours appears to be made up in spite of evidence.


    You’ve yet to provide any. Heresay and conjecture aren’t evidence.


    Dear god. You do realize that "i dont care about the rights of criminals, screw them, theyre criminals" allows for the government to make who they wish a criminal through whatever means necessary and therefore take away your own rights right?



    The irony. Jesus.


    Plus theres the whole racial discrimination thing.



    Claimed, not substantiated.


    No i dont think there was value in the group of neo nazis.



    Not everyone on the right was a neo-nazi. That’s simply a fact. Many were in defense of confederate statues, or just conservative. Many on the left were good people protesting nazi’s. Many were anarchist, progressive, communist leftist terroritsts.


    Also worth noting that even if you hate communists, antifa, and blm....counterprotesting neo nazis is significantly more admirable than ya know...being a new nazi.


    No, it isn’t. That’s subjective. The NAZIs are no better nor worse than those groups.


    No the eff it is not. You can look this stuff up dude. He has a low approval rating in a strong economy. That entire statement is factual.



    His approval rating is higher than many presidents who won reelection at this time in their first term. His approval rating really isn’t that low, and is higher than anticipated. Additionally, that’s been when he’s been in an opposition less period, and now that the democrats have selected a frontrunner in Warren, his ratings will rise.


    Progressives are evil? Thats a hot take.



    They’re as evil as NAZIs.


    I would argue its pretty rampant in both parties. The MAGA crowd just being a large and highly visible/guilty offender.



    In your eyes. The madness and anarchy I saw at Kavanaugh’s hearing and swearing in is, visibly and demonstrably, a larger and more highly guilty visible offender.