politics thread

[fredsdeadfriend]

So your reasoning is one that insists that once it leaves the body it no loner belongs to that male, correct? Also once the follicle is germinated it no longer belongs to the female, correct? Then using YOUR logic, since it doesn't belong to either, don't they have a right to remove themselves of property not belonging to themselves?

Not in an America that doesn't allow you to murder innocent people.

And an unborn baby is NOT property.

If you assault a pregnant woman and her unborn baby dies, you do not get charged with theft, you get charged with manslaughter.

 

[Sharkinva]

Illegal immigrant kills woman in front of her children, later kidnaps and sexually assaults 12yo girl

Again almost daily you can post a story like this

Yes.. you can cant you

Jayme Closs case: A chilling tale of murder, kidnapping and escape in rural America - CNN

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Look around dude, there are plenty who call for a wall and then deportation of ALL who entered the country illegally. Hell even the President has said it once or twice, he wants more deportation judges. Not immigration Judges. He wants judges on the bench who will deny as many assyluum cases as possible.

Words have context. And i dont think that was a slip of the tongue on his part.

Yeah, but I can almost guarantee you that no one would go out of their way to track them down. They'd simply wait for them to commit crimes or come in asking for free government assistance.

Hence, if an illegal alien keeps his/her nose clean and gets a job and doesn't need to strain our welfare funds, they could stay forever.



What are the reasons MOST who oppose illegal immigration do so?

They don't like THEIR MONEY, ie taxes, going to support people who are not supposed to be here.
They don't like THEIR PEOPLE, ie fam & friends, being murdered or robbed or raped or assaulted.
They don't like THEIR LANGUAGE, ie English, being shunned in schools, etc..
They don't lilke THEIR INCOME, ie jobs, going to cheaper insourced labor.


None of that has to do with their race. In fact, Mexicans have a very good reputation here in Minnesota as being VERY good workers. They work hard, and fast and do some of the highest quality work and are honest in their dealings, from what I've heard. But then again these particular Mexicans ARE WORKING, and not on welfare. They are not committing crime. They LEARN/SPEAK English.

 

[Sharkinva]

give me the wall e verify and end chin migration and i'll grant amnesty to everyone here , with no citizenship until 2nd generation

I had to run out and didnt want to rush this response.

In Chess I would call that proposal sacrificing a pawn. And here is why.

So you would get the wall, E-verify (ya'll seem real giddy for this government program) And no family reunification immigration.

For that these people would get,

To pay taxes, live here with little or no chance of bringing their family, and no chance to vote ever in their life. Or to look at it another way

1. Taxation without Representation.
2. The choice between staying here alone, or self deporting to be with their family.
3. No ability to vote. Which i understand because people always assume undocumented immigrants would automatically become democrats. This makes sense considering that Republicans have been trying to deport them for the last 20 years or more. So I can see as to where 10-20M new voters that you spent 20 years trying to get rid of and the last two years demonizing might not want to vote Republican.

 

[skinsdad62]

I had to run out and didnt want to rush this response.

In Chess I would call that proposal sacrificing a pawn. And here is why.

So you would get the wall, E-verify (ya'll seem real giddy for this government program) And no family reunification immigration.

For that these people would get,

To pay taxes, live here with little or no chance of bringing their family, and no chance to vote ever in their life. Or to look at it another way

1. Taxation without Representation.
2. The choice between staying here alone, or self deporting to be with their family.
3. No ability to vote. Which i understand because people always assume undocumented immigrants would automatically become democrats. This makes sense considering that Republicans have been trying to deport them for the last 20 years or more. So I can see as to where 10-20M new voters that you spent 20 years trying to get rid of and the last two years demonizing might not want to vote Republican.

why should you come into this country illegally and then get to vote ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Yeah, but I can almost guarantee you that no one would go out of their way to track them down. They'd simply wait for them to commit crimes or come in asking for free government assistance.

Hence, if an illegal alien keeps his/her nose clean and gets a job and doesn't need to strain our welfare funds, they could stay forever.



What are the reasons MOST who oppose illegal immigration do so?

They don't like THEIR MONEY, ie taxes, going to support people who are not supposed to be here.
They don't like THEIR PEOPLE, ie fam & friends, being murdered or robbed or raped or assaulted.
They don't like THEIR LANGUAGE, ie English, being shunned in schools, etc..
They don't lilke THEIR INCOME, ie jobs, going to cheaper insourced labor.


None of that has to do with their race. In fact, Mexicans have a very good reputation here in Minnesota as being VERY good workers. They work hard, and fast and do some of the highest quality work and are honest in their dealings, from what I've heard. But then again these particular Mexicans ARE WORKING, and not on welfare. They are not committing crime. They LEARN/SPEAK English.

The Majority of Mexicans legal or illegal, work pay taxes and are not nearly the drain on public resources some would have you believe. By comparison they commit less crimes than Americans.

And Im sorry, but when I see people telling folks go back to Mexico not knowing if they are here legally or not.. to me that says it is more about race for a good portion of these people.

 

[Sharkinva]

why should you come into this country illegally and then get to vote ?

Because you are paying your taxes just like the rest of us?? Novel concept I know.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

1. Such the "American" thing to do huh? Sad! especially if there are Libertarians reading this.

2. Self inflicted

3. You do know that religion is simply man's attempt to understand that which we currently cannot fathom, right? Religion puts a human face and twist on something that exists universally. At best, it's primitive in both concept and continued construct and carries no weight other than as a means to slow development or create strife.

Yeah, I know being Atheist is the new cool thing to be, right? lol

I do not agree with you about religion. IMO, there is a Higher Power, a Creative Being/Force that created the universe and who all people will have to answer to after their death.

As for being primitive, if you knew anything about ancient history, you would know that ancient man was far more advanced in knowledge than modern man. We've devolved. Sure technology has progressed and made up for our lack of advanced mental abilities, now we can do with computers what ancient man could do without. So religion being primitive just means to me that it comes from a time when humankind was more advanced in their mental abilities. And now that we are devolving, it makes sense that we'd lose our ability to understand religious truth.

You should look into the highly advanced make up of the Bible. The first verse alone defies belief. Even the first word. The first word of the Bible tells the entire Bible story/Theme with just one word.

 

[j_y19]

Let's face it gentlemen, the entire abortion thing is about control, borne out of fear, some BS made up religious propaganda, and inadequacies that have nothing to do with females. BTW: I'm on the side that insists that Roe was not properly decided. Want an explanation?...Ask!

Actually, its not out of control. The current law will not change. All that is happening are people blowing smoke. Like most major issues that confront our nation with our current crop of politicians in place.

 

[Stymietee]

Not in an America that doesn't allow you to murder innocent people.

And an unborn baby is NOT property.

If you assault a pregnant woman and her unborn baby dies, you do not get charged with theft, you get charged with manslaughter.

Really?? are you still debating this?

I agree that you don't murder innocent people, but there's no one being murdered in this instance.

The union of sperm and egg is not an unborn baby. Sperm in a cup or on a Kleenex is indeed property, as is discharged follicles during menstruation. The union of the same is merely a mass of material and blood.

Let's see: Manslaughter

Murder

Nope, not the same thing! Oh and if that woman miscarries as a result of that assault that has to be proved against case law related to spontaneous abortion in assault cases. You're opening up legal argument now that ends terribly for everyone remotely close to a pregnant female, assault and what causes miscarriages. Do you really want to go there?

By the way, nice pivot away from the challenge that I presented to you against yourself.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

The Majority of Mexicans legal or illegal, work pay taxes and are not nearly the drain on public resources some would have you believe. By comparison they commit less crimes than Americans.

And Im sorry, but when I see people telling folks go back to Mexico not knowing if they are here legally or not.. to me that says it is more about race for a good portion of these people.

Sorry dude, you seem like a pretty cool person, so I am not enjoying disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure where you get your crime stats? All the crime stats I've seen have Hispanics committing more crime than whites, but fewer crimes than blacks.

And the stats I've seen regarding illegal aliens(of any/all races), the crime rates are WAY above average.

3.5% of the population are here illegally.

12% of all murders are committed by illegal aliens
16% of all drug crimes are committed by illegal aliens
20% of all abductions are committed by illegal aliens


But yeah, the ones that are here legally seem to me and those I know, to be very good people, law abiding and hard working and highly skillful.

 

[Sharkinva]

Actually, its not out of control. The current law will not change. All that is happening are people blowing smoke. Like most major issues that confront our nation with our current crop of politicians in place.

The reason they dont want it federally protected is so that states can make their own laws. I forget which state, but recently a state tried to pass a law that would allow them to charge attending doctors, nurses and the mother with murder for an abortion. Note: they do this now in Venezuela. And I thought we didnt want to be like them??

 

[Sharkinva]

Sorry dude, you seem like a pretty cool person, so I am not enjoying disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure where you get your crime stats? All the crime stats I've seen have Hispanics committing more crime than whites, but fewer crimes than blacks.

And the stats I've seen regarding illegal aliens(of any/all races), the crime rates are WAY above average.

3.5% of the population are here illegally.

12% of all murders are committed by illegal aliens
16% of all drug crimes are committed by illegal aliens
20% of all abductions are committed by illegal aliens


But yeah, the ones that are here legally seem to me and those I know, to be very good people, law abiding and hard working and highly skillful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/

Illegal Immigration Does Not Increase Violent Crime, 4 Studies Show

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...ommit-less-crimes-than-Americans-12729578.php

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Because you are paying your taxes just like the rest of us?? Novel concept I know.

Women, many of them, originally did NOT want the right to vote, because along with the PRIVELEGE of voting, those who got to vote were EXPECTED/required to give national service, either military service or some other kind of work seen beneficially to everyone, maybe cleaning streets of garbage, or working in hospitals, etc..


How far have we fallen from the days when the PRIVELEGE of voting came AT A COST.


Now Dems are begging illegal aliens to flood into the country promising them other hard working types that Dems are now ignoring as a voting base will take care of them with our taxes, and will give them the vote for free, knowing that they will vote mostly Dem.


Dems can't win the argument otherwise.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sorry dude, you seem like a pretty cool person, so I am not enjoying disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure where you get your crime stats? All the crime stats I've seen have Hispanics committing more crime than whites, but fewer crimes than blacks.

And the stats I've seen regarding illegal aliens(of any/all races), the crime rates are WAY above average.

3.5% of the population are here illegally.

12% of all murders are committed by illegal aliens
16% of all drug crimes are committed by illegal aliens
20% of all abductions are committed by illegal aliens


But yeah, the ones that are here legally seem to me and those I know, to be very good people, law abiding and hard working and highly skillful.

I will also note, that these types of stats have also been used to justify harsher penalties on black youth in years past.

 

[Stymietee]

Yeah, I know being Atheist is the new cool thing to be, right? lol

I do not agree with you about religion. IMO, there is a Higher Power, a Creative Being/Force that created the universe and who all people will have to answer to after their death.

As for being primitive, if you knew anything about ancient history, you would know that ancient man was far more advanced in knowledge than modern man. We've devolved. Sure technology has progressed and made up for our lack of advanced mental abilities, now we can do with computers what ancient man could do without. So religion being primitive just means to me that it comes from a time when humankind was more advanced in their mental abilities. And now that we are devolving, it makes sense that we'd lose our ability to understand religious truth.

You should look into the highly advanced make up of the Bible. The first verse alone defies belief. Even the first word. The first word of the Bible tells the entire Bible story/Theme with just one word.

First of all, I'm not an atheist, I believe that there's a greater force in the universe and we know NOTHING about it. Humanizing that force does nothing beyond making people feel comfortable with whatever they want it to be.

See you just did exactly that when you wrote..."and who all people will have to answer to after their death."

Devolved huh? well I am a bit of a history buff, but humor me, what are some of those "mental abilities" that have been lost over time?

 

[Sharkinva]

Women, many of them, originally did NOT want the right to vote, because along with the PRIVELEGE of voting, those who got to vote were EXPECTED/required to give national service, either military service or some other kind of work seen beneficially to everyone, maybe cleaning streets of garbage, or working in hospitals, etc..


How far have we fallen from the days when the PRIVELEGE of voting came AT A COST.


Now Dems are begging illegal aliens to flood into the country knowing that they will vote mostly Dem.


Dems can't win the argument otherwise.

And i would say that without suppressing the vote, Republicans cant win in alot of areas.

As an Independent, I actually realize most of these people wouldnt vote to begin with. My mother in law had been here 20 years legally before she got her citizenship and voted at my behest.

Also you dont find issue with poll taxes, which is what requiring a woman to do military service in order to vote was. It was yet another way of trying to suppress a vote that could not be predicted or easily controlled.

 

[Stymietee]

I almost forgot about this, when you all talk about Dems, Repubs, Conservatives, liberal, and the like there's one fact that holds true no matter which standard you want to defend or rail against.

"In politics, there are no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests."

Argue if you must, pick a side to defend, but recognize the game that's being played against YOU!!

 

[Stymietee]

Once again, I'll be back in a bit.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

First of all, I'm not an atheist, I believe that there's a greater force in the universe and we know NOTHING about it. Humanizing that force does nothing beyond making people feel comfortable with whatever they want it to be.

See you just did exactly that when you wrote..."and who all people will have to answer to after their death."

Devolved huh? well I am a bit of a history buff, but humor me, what are some of those "mental abilities" that have been lost over time?

The ability to construct things like Manchu Pichu(sp?), the Pyramids of Giza, Stonehenge, etc.. And that is just scratching the surface. The mysteries of ancient mankind/history are mind blowing. Some of the things they have dug up over the years like ancient batteries as just one example. Please tell me you have some hint of what I am talking about in your head?