Pitching: need to fix?

[msgkings322]

Obviously I don't have to tell youse guys about our pitching issues. Curious your thoughts about what to do about it, if anything.

Realistic stuff I mean.

Option 1: just keep throwing Timmy and Vogelsong (when he gets back) out there and hope they can pull something together.

Option 2: See how Gaudin does over a few more starts, then plug him into the rotation. If we go this route, I'd put Timmy in the pen, and I really don't care if he likes it or not.

Option 3: Deal for a guy. We won't be getting a CLiff Lee level guy, but how about a Jake Peavy? Pitching well, and likely would be able to keep it up in the NL West again in a pitchers park. Makes $14.5 mil this year and next, but he can replace Timmy next year. Player option of $15 mil in 2015 if he pitches 400 innings over 2013-2014. The White Sox aren't going anywhere this year or next, and are desperate for bats. Maybe we could send them Pill, Oropesa, Villalona, Peggs, etc, some mix of those.

Option 4: something I haven't though of?

And of course we could do options 2 and 3.

Thoughts?

 

[Stokes1931]

Interesting thoughts on Peavy.

I think we need to add a starter. Timmy is not cutting it, and I don't know how Vogie will come back from his broken finger.

There is no one in AAA that is any better than what we now have, though the case could be made to bring a kid up and let him get his lumps. However, that has not been the Giants' way.

Probably some high priced pitcher who is doing reasonably well on a team going nowhere sounds about right. Josh Johnson might be a guy from the Blue Jays. He has been mentioned here before. He has been hurt, but is expected back soon. He is signed for $13.75 million this year, and is a free agent. He might benefit from pitching at the Phone Booth.

My guess is option one until the ASB.

 

[Stokes1931]

Bud Norris from the Stros is a name that has been tossed around. He is a Bay Area kid. Arb in 2014, FA in 2016. Only $3 million salary this year.

Houston would be foolish to deal him, but Sabey Sabes can do it if it is to be done.

 

[Stokes1931]

Or how about Timmy, a whole bunch of cash, and the pick of the minors for King Felix?

 

[tzill]

Interesting thoughts on Peavy.

I think we need to add a starter. Timmy is not cutting it, and I don't know how Vogie will come back from his broken finger.

There is no one in AAA that is any better than what we now have, though the case could be made to bring a kid up and let him get his lumps. However, that has not been the Giants' way.

Probably some high priced pitcher who is doing reasonably well on a team going nowhere sounds about right. Josh Johnson might be a guy from the Blue Jays. He has been mentioned here before. He has been hurt, but is expected back soon. He is signed for $13.75 million this year, and is a free agent. He might benefit from pitching at the Phone Booth.

My guess is option one until the ASB.

I don't know...there is an argument that either Kick or Heston would be better than Freak.

 

[tzill]

I don't see us adding a SP with more than this year on his contract. Johnson makes sense.

 

[SFGRTB]

Lincecum on being a reliever in his future:

“I’m always open. It’s just, right now I don’t want to be open to it,” said Lincecum, adding he is committed to remaining a starter for the rest of this season. “I’m sure if my career takes that turn, I’m definitely open to changes, especially if it’s beneficial to the team I’m playing for.”

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/andrew-baggarly/exclusive-tim-lincecum-considers-second-career-relief

Smart, careful words from the kid. I'm still in the wait-and-see side with him, but it might just be us 2 at this point. I don't want to hijack this into a Tim Lincecum thread, but just throwing this out there. He might be a reliever by next season and he's open to it.

That being said, I'm sticking with option 1. We need to restock the farm system if we are going to potentially be losing Tim and Volgy and Zito next year and 1/2 year rentals are would be worst case. I'm okay going to war with what we have.

Now Bud Norris, maybe. He may be out of our price range, but I think under Boch, Raggs, Posey and Cain he could learn a lot. Agreed with Stokes though, Astros would be silly to let him go for cheap.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I am for Josh Johnson,seems like the best fit depending on price. We can watch him pitch at AT&T on Tuesday.

Norris is an interesting name, I think Stros move him by July 31st

 

[dredinis21]

I think that although Josh Johnson is a great thought in theory, his penchant for the DL and other knicks that keep him from the lineup make him an expensive piece to get for a half year rental.

I could see Los Doyers going after JJ in FA much like Greinke.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I think that although Josh Johnson is a great thought in theory, his penchant for the DL and other knicks that keep him from the lineup make him an expensive piece to get for a half year rental.

I could see Los Doyers going after JJ in FA much like Greinke.

I just want him for one year. His injuries could drive the trade price down though

 

[msgkings322]

I think that although Josh Johnson is a great thought in theory, his penchant for the DL and other knicks that keep him from the lineup make him an expensive piece to get for a half year rental.

I could see Los Doyers going after JJ in FA much like Greinke.

That's why I threw Peavy out there, he stays healthy (after he threw his shoulder literally off his body, he's come back strong) and he's signed through 2014 and maybe 2015, but he makes less than Lincecum this year, and Cain, and Zito, etc.

Not sure if we have enough bats to outbid other suitors though.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would assume Norris would cost too much, so I would like to avoid him. Not sure we have the proper trade chips anyway. High ceiling A+ prospects are worth more to the current team than they are to the acquiring team, and that is where our strength is at.

The fact that JJ has not pitched in about a year means his price will be low-ish. What he does in the next 10 or so starts will determine his value. He will be worthless or worth 1 lower elite prospect. Not sure if there is a middle ground on him.

Lee is making bank. If the Phil's are looking to dump salary, I think he can be had relatively cheap. If they are not, he will cost at least one elite prospect.

Peavey is probably the name that makes the most sense. He has now been pitching for about a year and a half, so he has track record, but he is not elite anymore. I think he could he had for Stratton + (Roger, Pegs, Susac, something along those lines). I have no prob parting with Stratton.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Talking to some baseball fans about potential guys. What about Yovani Gallardo.


Brewers are a mess and may need to rebuild. He is young, and here is his contract
13:$7.75M, 14:$11.25M, 15:$13M club

 

[msgkings322]

Talking to some baseball fans about potential guys. What about Yovani Gallardo.


Brewers are a mess and may need to rebuild. He is young, and here is his contract
13:$7.75M, 14:$11.25M, 15:$13M club

Also a good option but do we have enough to get him?

 

[msgkings322]

And calsnow, I hope your tagline (which is hilarious, I saw it on a t-shirt once) wasn't directed at my use of 'literally'

LOL

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Another name. Scott Feldman

30-year-old with a 2.82 ERA this year

 

[calsnowskier]

And calsnow, I hope your tagline (which is hilarious, I saw it on a t-shirt once) wasn't directed at my use of 'literally'

LOL

No. I hear it on the radio ALL THE TIME and it drives me crazy. I heard it again from a new source a couple weeks back, and it triggered the tagline.

I saw it on a shirt or a bumpersticker as well (don't remember the exact source). I am not trying to claim originality with it

 

[tzill]

Lincecum on being a reliever in his future:



Exclusive: Tim Lincecum considers a second career in relief | CSN Bay Area

Smart, careful words from the kid. I'm still in the wait-and-see side with him, but it might just be us 2 at this point. I don't want to hijack this into a Tim Lincecum thread, but just throwing this out there. He might be a reliever by next season and he's open to it.

That being said, I'm sticking with option 1. We need to restock the farm system if we are going to potentially be losing Tim and Volgy and Zito next year and 1/2 year rentals are would be worst case. I'm okay going to war with what we have.

Now Bud Norris, maybe. He may be out of our price range, but I think under Boch, Raggs, Posey and Cain he could learn a lot. Agreed with Stokes though, Astros would be silly to let him go for cheap.

I just don't see that as likely. I'm fairly certain that the Giants will pick up Tron's 6.5MM option for next year. I'd expect Zeets to get reworked into a two year deal for 2014 and 2015 for something like $10MM/year. That leaves one spot in the rotation, and a number of minor league guys to compete for it.

Timmah may end up a reliever at something like 8-10MM a year. If we make the playoffs and he shines again in relief I could see the Giants signing him for that role.

 

[SFGRTB]

I just don't see that as likely. I'm fairly certain that the Giants will pick up Tron's 6.5MM option for next year. I'd expect Zeets to get reworked into a two year deal for 2014 and 2015 for something like $10MM/year. That leaves one spot in the rotation, and a number of minor league guys to compete for it.

Timmah may end up a reliever at something like 8-10MM a year. If we make the playoffs and he shines again in relief I could see the Giants signing him for that role.

I forgot Volgy had a team option, but I agree. Loosing all 3 isn't likely, but it is a possibility (albeit slim). I just wanted to point out the fact that giving up some of our younger pitching depth for a 3 month rental could really backfire since we TECHNICALLY only have 2 SP under guaranteed contracts next year.

I would rather target Norris, Peavy or Gallardo, guys under future contracts.

 

[SF11704]

This is a really TOUGH question. If I look at it through the eyes of a Giant fan I just can't imagine that this is happening or that it can't last much longer. Last year we had one of the best rotations in baseball. This is just a temporary aboration!

But is it?

Timmah has been like this for 3+ years now. Maybe the 'relief role' was the exception. He sure as hell is struggling as a starter. Maybe Vogie is returning to what he was prior to his 'magical' year. I still have hopes for him but they are dimming. Having surgery can't help his case either. Bum and Cain seem to be in the same funk. They pitch great for 5 of their innings but we played 7 and the other 2 were horrible. Cain gave up 7 (maybe 8 hits) in that damn STL game. Bum seems to have this one bad inning each outing as well. Or it seems that way. Zito is still Zito. When he loses his focus it becomes a walkathron. I also get the feeling that many of the hits that we are giving up come with 2 strikes on the batter. Maybe it's just my perception but sure seems that way. The real question is about the depth of this problem. I don't believe it's just 1 SP. I'm guessing at least 2 and maybe another 1 between the other 3. One additional SP may not solve this problem at all. if at least 3 of them don't come back to form one additional one is not going to fix this. If I had a plan ... I'd consider an additional SP (Peavy would be great) and if possible an outfielder (left) with power. I think we need another Cody Ross type of pick-up. An everyday player that grabs hold of this team and drags it out of this muck (this may have been what Herk did last year). But 2 WS in 3 years makes this much easier to deal with .... at least I haven't broken any furniture yet