Pierre Garcon a Legit #1 WR

[cdumler7]

Garcion/Smith...on their respective teams they are ranked as such, but both are really the same guy. Both have good speed but are run a limited route tree.

Smith imo had the perfect complimentary type WR in Boldin. A tough, reliable WR like Roddy is for Julio.

Agree with this. Usually the best WR duos have complimentary skill sets. This year watching the Broncos (I would actually say Welker is the #2 guy this season) Thomas is the big strong fast guy that excels at the go route and the screen passes for big yards. He doesn't work a whole heck of a lot over the middle. Welker on the other hand is the middle guy who picks up the tough yards and keeps the safeties honest to help out Thomas. I just don't see how Garcon and Smith compliment each other. You need that guy who can be the possession receiver and pick up the tough first downs. I just don't really see that out of either of them.

 

[Money]

Agree with this. Usually the best WR duos have complimentary skill sets. This year watching the Broncos (I would actually say Welker is the #2 guy this season) Thomas is the big strong fast guy that excels at the go route and the screen passes for big yards. He doesn't work a whole heck of a lot over the middle. Welker on the other hand is the middle guy who picks up the tough yards and keeps the safeties honest to help out Thomas. I just don't see how Garcon and Smith compliment each other. You need that guy who can be the possession receiver and pick up the tough first downs. I just don't really see that out of either of them.

I understand that's the perception, but 32 of Torrey's 41 receptions are for 1st downs (78%). That's 11th in the league. The only guys with 40+ receptions that are higher are Calvin Johnson (79.2%) and Vincent Jackson (78.3%).

 

[Lonewate44]

Agree with this. Usually the best WR duos have complimentary skill sets. This year watching the Broncos (I would actually say Welker is the #2 guy this season) Thomas is the big strong fast guy that excels at the go route and the screen passes for big yards. He doesn't work a whole heck of a lot over the middle. Welker on the other hand is the middle guy who picks up the tough yards and keeps the safeties honest to help out Thomas. I just don't see how Garcon and Smith compliment each other. You need that guy who can be the possession receiver and pick up the tough first downs. I just don't really see that out of either of them.

Well you dont watch much skins games then...garcon picks up tough first downs...makes unbelievable 1 handed grabs, runs great routes, picks up big chucnks of yards after the catch....he can do it all... and he does it all as you say as the only option the Skins have....So the Defense knows its going to him....yet......he just keeps getting catchs, yards, and moving the chains

 

[Money]

Well you dont watch much skins games then...garcon picks up tough first downs...makes unbelievable 1 handed grabs, runs great routes, picks up big chucnks of yards after the catch....he can do it all... and he does it all as you say as the only option the Skins have....So the Defense knows its going to him....yet......he just keeps getting catchs, yards, and moving the chains

Absolutely agree. I feel like he was labeled with the Colts and it will be hard for him to lose that label.

 

[Octoberfest23]

For those nay sayers out there that say he isn't......Really???

Tied for 6th in total catchs, 15th in yards.....he is 2nd Julio Jones in the NFC for catchs...How is he not a true #1????

He's a # 2 for a lot of teams, a number 3 for a couple, and a #1 for a handful of teams.

 

[cdumler7]

Well you dont watch much skins games then...garcon picks up tough first downs...makes unbelievable 1 handed grabs, runs great routes, picks up big chucnks of yards after the catch....he can do it all... and he does it all as you say as the only option the Skins have....So the Defense knows its going to him....yet......he just keeps getting catchs, yards, and moving the chains

I do not watch many Redskins games you are right. I like Garcon and I like Smith. The two of them together might be a pretty darn good duo. I think there are quite a few teams in the league that would love a chance for something like that. Now having said that there are other WR duos that I would rather have than these two. Part of the reason and this is mostly in response to Money's thoughts on 1st down grabs by Torrey Smith and yours towards Garcon and in response to that of why they are both in the top 11 for yards this season is because they are thrown to quite a bit. Both are in the top 13 in targets this season so it makes sense that they have as many yards as they do. Even though they might be doubled more often than some others the more opportunities that they are given helps them in actually compiling stats.

Now where I see both of them hurting a team more than helping is that in the Red Zone. This is why I bring up the tough yards comment in when things get tight and the big grabs need to be made or the big plays need to be made can these two rise up like the other combos I have listed? Maybe they can but right now of the top 15 in yards this year they are last and tied for 2nd to last in touchdowns. Now I know touchdowns don't paint the whole picture as Calvin Johnson didn't have that many last year but then again we are talking about the guy who is triple covered or more when the Lions got down in the Red Zone.

 

[Lonewate44]

He's a # 2 for a lot of teams, a number 3 for a couple, and a #1 for a handful of teams.

Well nobody on the browns stacks up...Dez Bryant...worse....Vitcor cruz....all these elite players, and their numbers pale in comparrison...so they are at best #2's or 3's as well huh?

So there are very few #1 recievers...Got it!!!

 

[Lonewate44]

I do not watch many Redskins games you are right. I like Garcon and I like Smith. The two of them together might be a pretty darn good duo. I think there are quite a few teams in the league that would love a chance for something like that. Now having said that there are other WR duos that I would rather have than these two. Part of the reason and this is mostly in response to Money's thoughts on 1st down grabs by Torrey Smith and yours towards Garcon and in response to that of why they are both in the top 11 for yards this season is because they are thrown to quite a bit. Both are in the top 13 in targets this season so it makes sense that they have as many yards as they do. Even though they might be doubled more often than some others the more opportunities that they are given helps them in actually compiling stats.

Now where I see both of them hurting a team more than helping is that in the Red Zone. This is why I bring up the tough yards comment in when things get tight and the big grabs need to be made or the big plays need to be made can these two rise up like the other combos I have listed? Maybe they can but right now of the top 15 in yards this year they are last and tied for 2nd to last in touchdowns. Now I know touchdowns don't paint the whole picture as Calvin Johnson didn't have that many last year but then again we are talking about the guy who is triple covered or more when the Lions got down in the Red Zone.

I see what you say about the red ZOne......But we have a damn fine rushing attack that runs the ball in alot......

I did conceede his Tds are down...no disputing that....but he does put his team in position to get them

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

I used to say he was a product of Manning, but no longer do I feel this way. RGIII loves him and has become a legit weapon in that offense and a big deep threat.

 

[cdumler7]

I see what you say about the red ZOne......But we have a damn fine rushing attack that runs the ball in alot......

I did conceede his Tds are down...no disputing that....but he does put his team in position to get them

I'm not disputing that he is or isn't a good player. I think he is a good player. Now as for the idea if I was starting a team today which WR would I like to have on my team Garcon would be down on my list. Right now I would take...

Megatron
Julio
Roddy
Dez
D. Thomas
Welker
Fitz
Green
Marshall
Cruz
Wayne
Jackson
A. Johnson
V. Jackson
and probably Gordon

Percy Harvin when healthy would be another hard to pass up. Steve Smith is another I think I would probably add to the list about the same area of Garcon.

 

[Money]

I'm not disputing that he is or isn't a good player. I think he is a good player. Now as for the idea if I was starting a team today which WR would I like to have on my team Garcon would be down on my list. Right now I would take...

Megatron
Julio
Roddy
Dez
D. Thomas
Welker
Fitz
Green
Marshall
Cruz
Wayne
Jackson
A. Johnson
V. Jackson
and probably Gordon

Percy Harvin when healthy would be another hard to pass up. Steve Smith is another I think I would probably add to the list about the same area of Garcon.

I disagree with about half your list, but it's a very subjective area of course. I'm assuming you are talking for more than a year and quite a few on this list are winding down or will be winding down soon career-wise. Also...when IS Percy Harvin healthy and doesn't that factor in?

 

[cdumler7]

I disagree with about half your list, but it's a very subjective area of course. I'm assuming you are talking for more than a year and quite a few on this list are winding down or will be winding down soon career-wise. Also...when IS Percy Harvin healthy and doesn't that factor in?

Obviously yes some of these guys are beginning to wind down on their careers but when we are talking about is Garcon a true #1 in this league I would say yes but there are quite a few other receivers that I would say are better #1's right now.

Now if we are talking over the next 5 years Garcon would move up the list above some of these guys but then again you have to suspect that others will come into the league in the next 5 years that would probably replace him for those guys. Such as a guy that is already in the league that I wouldn't take right now because of suspensions and legal trouble but I would say talent wise is better is Blackmon. The guy can't quite get his head on straight though.

Harvin's health and some of these other guys would have to factor in but the same could be said for Garcon who has had some injury issues. Throw in then when picking these receivers say for the scenario I was talking about it would depend on the quarterback that was throwing to them and what receivers would fit better with their scheme. Such as with Alex Smith a speedster doesn't do a whole lot of good since he really doesn't throw it deep very often so guys like Garcon and Torrey Smith would not fit well in my opinion with him.

Now on talent alone though the list that I made is one that I would stick with ahead of Garcon at this time. He would be right in the mix with a group of them and would be hard to pass up compared to guys like Steve Smith. Who on my list do you disagree that when healthy you would rather take Garcon compared to them? Now remember when healthy.

 

[Octoberfest23]

Well nobody on the browns stacks up...Dez Bryant...worse....Vitcor cruz....all these elite players, and their numbers pale in comparrison...so they are at best #2's or 3's as well huh?

So there are very few #1 recievers...Got it!!!

Stats don't tell the entire story. He could have better stats than Larry fitz but he'd be a #2 in Arizona. As for josh Gordon, he missed the first 2 games and has gone through 3 quarterbacks including Brandon Weeden and still stacks up to the rest of the league. Not to mention he's younger than Garçon. Teams like Atlanta or Denver though he'd be a #3 I would think. He's definitely a #2 in Detroit, Dallas, Miami, Houston, Cincinnati, Antonio Bryant is playing great in pit. Tampa, Carolina, Chicago and there are a couple more.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I disagree with about half your list, but it's a very subjective area of course. I'm assuming you are talking for more than a year and quite a few on this list are winding down or will be winding down soon career-wise. Also...when IS Percy Harvin healthy and doesn't that factor in?

You're really defending Garcion to the hilt...give or take 2...I think his list was pretty spot on and I would add A. Brown from PIT.

That's not really a slight to Garcion imo...64 WRs plus slots....90 plus guys play the position...I think he's top 20...maybe top 15.

 

[JDM]

Well nobody on the browns stacks up...Dez Bryant...worse....Vitcor cruz....all these elite players, and their numbers pale in comparrison...so they are at best #2's or 3's as well huh?

So there are very few #1 recievers...Got it!!!

Lol at garçon over Dez.

 

[JDM]

I'm not disputing that he is or isn't a good player. I think he is a good player. Now as for the idea if I was starting a team today which WR would I like to have on my team Garcon would be down on my list. Right now I would take...

Megatron
Julio
Roddy
Dez
D. Thomas
Welker
Fitz
Green
Marshall
Cruz
Wayne
Jackson
A. Johnson
V. Jackson
and probably Gordon

Percy Harvin when healthy would be another hard to pass up. Steve Smith is another I think I would probably add to the list about the same area of Garcon.

You can make an argument for all but Gordon. Putting him in this discussion is dumb IMO.

 

[JDM]

You're really defending Garcion to the hilt...give or take 2...I think his list was pretty spot on and I would add A. Brown from PIT.

That's not really a slight to Garcion imo...64 WRs plus slots....90 plus guys play the position...I think he's top 20...maybe top 15.

Brown is laughable. He's not special.

 

[Money]

You're really defending Garcion to the hilt...give or take 2...I think his list was pretty spot on and I would add A. Brown from PIT.

That's not really a slight to Garcion imo...64 WRs plus slots....90 plus guys play the position...I think he's top 20...maybe top 15.

He mentioned starting a franchise and I went with that angle. I have the utmost respect for Wayne, Welker, S. Smith and Fitz, but I'm not taking them over Garcon if I'm starting a franchise now. I'm taking Garcon over Roddy, Gordon and Harvin regardless. I consider Dez the 2nd coming of Owens and I don't want him. A. Johnson has been (and still is) a beast, but I just don't know how much he has left. I feel like it's not much. I would have to think about Cruz, Desean and Vincent.

I absolutely love A. Brown and that would be a tough call. I remember a few years ago when Ladarius Webb got tired of everyone asking about Mike Wallace and said that Brown was the guy he was worried about. Steelers fans were up in arms (on the ESPN boards) and were saying Webb was trash talking. I got into several arguments with their fans saying I thought Brown was more dangerous than Wallace. I don't think I would get into many arguments now.

Garcon is the #1 for the Redskins and until Reed popped into the picture, was really their only weapon in the passing game. He is obviously thriving in the role. I feel like he developed a reputation in Indy and people aren't letting that go. You're right...I obviously have more respect for him than the majority. Kinda funny since I absolutely hate the Redskins organization.

On a side note...I also actually defend RGIII more than most (although I've always fallen on the Luck side in that comparison). I love the kid and hope he succeeds. Snyder and Shanahan are absolutely useless in my mind, so I don't think he will.

 

[JDM]

If you're saying fitz doesn't have enough years left, I think you're wrong, but you have a case. If you're saying that right now Garçon is in a discussion with Fitzgerald you're oh some crazy drugs.

 

[Money]

If you're saying fitz doesn't have enough years left, I think you're wrong, but you have a case. If you're saying that right now Garçon is in a discussion with Fitzgerald you're oh some crazy drugs.

Fitz has entered the regression years of his career. I think he has a couple good years left and I hope to see them. He's one of my favorites.