Game Thread: Philadelphia Flyers at Columbus Blue Jackets 1/23/14 | 7:00pm

[Cobiemonster]

eventually he will start back to back games.. down the stretch.. january isn't part of the stretch run so he's trying not to burn him out until then.

mase has started 11th most games for a goalie this season with 37 starts. niemi is tops at 43. not a big disparity.

the goalies above him,

niemi
smith
fluery
lehtonen
price
pavelec
rask
lundqvist
bishop
varlamov

are either elite goaltenders, or on teams that have 0 goaltender depth. having emery be able to share the load right now, would help mason immensely in the long run, if there were to be a long run.

My main problem is that Chief picks the dumbest games to start Razor, and it puts the team's back against the wall and behind the 8-ball before it even starts - a lot of those road games were against really good teams and you'd think Mase would get some of those games

 

[Cobiemonster]

1. disagree strongly. i think emery is one of the better backups in the league.

2. i dont think the defense is soft. i think it's slow and can't pass for shit though.

3. agree

4. i'm ok with the dump and chase in principle, but when the flyers win approximately 2.7% of board battles (thanks simmonds) in a game, it's not a good plan.

5. PK has been good. dominant if you take in to account the penalty count. discipline has been a major problem

6. i'm good w/ berube too.

7. giroux at 22(ish) was pretty good. a lot of the good draft picks are still TBD, but look promising. i think a bigger problem than scouting poorly has been a lack of picks in general.

Remember when there was the rumor out there that the Oilers had offered three 2nd round picks for Braydon Coburn at the draft last year and the Flyers declined? In retrospect, you think the Flyers should have taken that deal?

 

[awaz]

Remember when there was the rumor out there that the Oilers had offered three 2nd round picks for Braydon Coburn at the draft last year and the Flyers declined? In retrospect, you think the Flyers should have taken that deal?

i dont know.. i'm torn.. i'd like the flyers to be able to restock the system, which they seem to have done pretty well with lately.. ghost is looking like a steal.. cousins looks like a decent pick.. leier looks like more than they thought they would get.. laughton looks to be better than expected.. morin and hagg we just havent had enough time with yet.. stolarz has improved greatly since they drafted him.. they have some decent players in the pipeline and i'd like to see them increase the quantity

however, i think the flyers would be so much worse without coburn. he leads the team with 22+ minutes a night. he might not do it in spectacular, or even plus, fashion, but he does a fairly good job. he's pretty much the only d-man that can move at an NHL pace, his passing isn't always horrible, he blocks a lot of shots.. plays the PK.. etc.. and who do you fill those minutes with if you trade him? streit, grossmann, or mesz at 22+ minutes a game is terrifying to think about.

so i guess what i'm saying is.. in a vacuum, three 2nd round picks for coburn is good value IMO, but i think coburn has more value than that to the flyers specifically. if that makes sense? so i'd be ok with moving him for three 2nds, but i would also be prepared to be patient and rebuild in a proper fashion

 

[Cobiemonster]

i dont know.. i'm torn.. i'd like the flyers to be able to restock the system, which they seem to have done pretty well with lately.. ghost is looking like a steal.. cousins looks like a decent pick.. leier looks like more than they thought they would get.. laughton looks to be better than expected.. morin and hagg we just havent had enough time with yet.. stolarz has improved greatly since they drafted him.. they have some decent players in the pipeline and i'd like to see them increase the quantity

however, i think the flyers would be so much worse without coburn. he leads the team with 22+ minutes a night. he might not do it in spectacular, or even plus, fashion, but he does a fairly good job. he's pretty much the only d-man that can move at an NHL pace, his passing isn't always horrible, he blocks a lot of shots.. plays the PK.. etc.. and who do you fill those minutes with if you trade him? streit, grossmann, or mesz at 22+ minutes a game is terrifying to think about.

so i guess what i'm saying is.. in a vacuum, three 2nd round picks for coburn is good value IMO, but i think coburn has more value than that to the flyers specifically. if that makes sense? so i'd be ok with moving him for three 2nds, but i would also be prepared to be patient

I agree - I wish the Flyers had kept Matt Carle honestly, he's a better skater and overall defenseman than lets say, Mark Streit - I think if they kept Matt Carle, they wouldn't have needed to get Mark Streit and then maybe you could trade Braydon Coburn for those three 2nds because Matt Carle can play a lot of minutes

 

[awaz]

I agree - I wish the Flyers had kept Matt Carle honestly, he's a better skater and overall defenseman than lets say, Mark Streit - I think if they kept Matt Carle, they wouldn't have needed to get Mark Streit and then maybe you could trade Braydon Coburn for those three 2nds because Matt Carle can play a lot of minutes

ya, hindsight is 20/20.. i think carle was really under-appreciated during his time with the flyers.. i didnt want him at 5.5 mil either, but looking at where we are now, i'd take him at 5.5

 

[Cobiemonster]

ya, hindsight is 20/20.. i think carle was really under-appreciated during his time with the flyers.. i didnt want him at 5.5 mil either, but looking at where we are now, i'd take him at 5.5

And he was much younger than Mark Streit too - I hate how the Flyers handled the offseason two years ago - they let him, Jaromir Jagr and JVR go and didn't get anyone to replace those guys - they were banking too much on the young guys to make the next step right away

 

[Cobiemonster]

I have an idea(might be far fetched):

If they want to really do something bold, move Braydon Coburn for those three second round picks, and then package two of them plus one or two of the prospects and one of the young players on the Flyers and get Shea Weber - I don't know if the Preds are really going to move Shea Weber but this is something the Flyers could consider

 

[awaz]

And he was much younger than Mark Streit too - I hate how the Flyers handled the offseason two years ago - they let him, Jaromir Jagr and JVR go and didn't get anyone to replace those guys - they were banking too much on the young guys to make the next step right away

yep, agreed. i dont mind letting jagr go, and i liked the trade JvR for schenn. but voracek cant seem to get his consistency down to replace jagr, and schenn just refuses to blossom in to what he was supposed to be.

more on jagr.. i just dont think he's worth the money he's paid. older guy that wears down in the playoffs. if they were more of a cup contender, i'd like to have him, but i dont think having him makes them that cup contender. his minutes are better used on a younger guy given the state of the team IMO

 

[awaz]

I have an idea(might be far fetched):

If they want to really do something bold, move Braydon Coburn for those three second round picks, and then package two of them plus one or two of the prospects and one of the young players on the Flyers and get Shea Weber - I don't know if the Preds are really going to move Shea Weber but this is something the Flyers could consider

see i just think the flyers are between a rock and a hard place when trying to improve the team. because that addresses their biggest need, in the biggest way. no doubt, flyers would love to have weber.

weber replaces coburn --> huge upgrade
lecav replaces bschenn in your top 6 --> fine for the next couple years, i'd say a wash
laughton replaces lecav on the 3rd line --> probably a downgrade short term, but long term its fine
hagg --> replaced by a 2nd round pick, just a lost year of development, no biggie
cousins --> not replaced

question is.. can you get weber for two 2nds, hagg, cousins, and bschenn? i think the flyers win that, but i think the preds would demand morin and/or laughton instead of hagg/cousins.. if that's the case, do the flyers still win?

 

[Cobiemonster]

see i just think the flyers are between a rock and a hard place when trying to improve the team. because that addresses their biggest need, in the biggest way. no doubt, flyers would love to have weber.

weber replaces coburn --> huge upgrade
lecav replaces bschenn in your top 6 --> fine for the next couple years, i'd say a wash
laughton replaces lecav on the 3rd line --> probably a downgrade short term, but long term its fine
hagg --> replaced by a 2nd round pick, just a lost year of development, no biggie
cousins --> not replaced

question is.. can you get weber for two 2nds, hagg, cousins, and bschenn? i think the flyers win that, but i think the preds would demand morin and/or laughton instead of hagg/cousins.. if that's the case, do the flyers still win?

Honestly I wouldn't mind giving up Sam Morin with two 2nds, Robert Hagg and Brayden Schenn - those guys are a long long ways away and Shea Weber makes them instantly better and he's still relatively young - that way you still keep Couts and Laughts and you can mix and match them and guys like Vinny from wing and center

 

[Cobiemonster]

yep, agreed. i dont mind letting jagr go, and i liked the trade JvR for schenn. but voracek cant seem to get his consistency down to replace jagr, and schenn just refuses to blossom in to what he was supposed to be.

more on jagr.. i just dont think he's worth the money he's paid. older guy that wears down in the playoffs. if they were more of a cup contender, i'd like to have him, but i dont think having him makes them that cup contender. his minutes are better used on a younger guy given the state of the team IMO

My main problem is that the Flyers never even really considered bringing him back, and I think Jaromir himself didn't really like how that took place - it's like they wanted no part of him anymore - I know he's older and might wear down in the playoffs, but from all accounts this season, on a Devils team starving for scoring, he's held the fort there pretty well - and I think the Flyers would have been a better situation for him too because he's had a million linemates in NJ already, in Philadelphia he'd probably stick with G and whoever most likely