Percy Harvin vs Tavon Austin

[SeattleOspreys]

I think we all thought it was a bit risky to trade for Harvin and for me, it
was the salary component and not the draft picks at all. Immediately, I thought
is was the Jacoby Jones factor that our Hawks lacked, and having a team that
could win the SB, I said "ok" PC/JS, you've rebuilt this squad incredibly well and
you get 4 or 5 mulligans from me.

Jacoby Jones factor = game tying last reg play speed reception vs Denver in the AFCCG,
a 50+ yd TD reception in the SB and a kickoff return for TD in the SB.
Speed kills and it's often 1 play that makes the difference.

Oh, yes, Harvin vs Austin with draft and salary consequences since they're comparable
players.

As total draft compensation to grab Austin, the Rams used their 1st, a 2nd and a 7th
in their move up from 16 to 8 to snag Austin, an unproven rookie.

Had the Hawks wanted that Austin speed, it would've been a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, a 6th and
a 7th. That has been market conditions to add a 3rd and 6th for Hawks to move to
16 and then the jump to 8th. Remember when the 9ers gave a 4th rdr just to move
2 spots to snag ADavis.

That is a HEFTY price to pay in draft considerations for Austin. The Harvin injury risk
was there with Harvin but his production capabilities and NFL talent were documented. Austin
is unproven and Harvin is still young.

Harvin has 2 years guaranteed at $25mm (including the $12mm signing bonus), so his
cap is excessive in 2014 and 2015 which is either restructure year or adios. Harvin is
a fairly expensive rent a player but we want to win NOW. We will still have a very solid
core over the next 7 years.

I can understand the Hawks going for Harvin based on the win now strategy and the
fact we didn't need another rookie at #25 to scratch to make the squad.

I understand the move, albeit a bit risky and still believe PC/JS are gurus.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

One more area that is an

for me, is the constant view that we also gave up a 3rd rdr for Harvin.
( This is for trolling fans, especially on Football talk).

If you borrow $1,000 today, you don't pay $1,000 next year. You
obviously pay more. This has been going on for the last 20+ years in
football and for the life of financial transactions.

The Hawks loaned Denver a 2nd rd pick or Alphonso Smith in 2009.
For that loan, we received a 1st rd pick in 2010 as interest compensation
and their fee of using that Smith "asset."

For Harvin, the Vikes loaned us a 2013 - 4th rd selection and we pay
them back a 2014 - 3rd rd selection for the ability to utilize the
asset (Harvin) in 2013, which is now a bit less than we bargained for.

I'm not sure why this is such a but it's common sense and
basic 101 knowledge.... and yet, no one has ever mentioned this
or refuted the other concept.

The draft compensation for Harvin is still a solid deal, the $$ is the issue and
we'll see how PC/JS manipulate...

 

[dumbrabbit]

Harvin has been in the league for four years, is established and is one of the best receivers in the game.

Austin is rookie, we haven't even seen him play a preseason down yet and you're already comparing him to Harvin?

Facepalm.

 

[Logicallylethal]

With Tavon there's a risk that he might not even pan out as a player...

With Percy...you know you are getting one of the most dynamic play makers in the NFL. He established himself last year as an MVP candidate. Even if Tavon turns out to be a good player...he may never be as good as Percy is

Only real issue with Percy are the injuries. I personally think he will be good moving forward once he recovers from the hip surgery.

A more interesting comparison and hypothetical would be Percy Harvin and Mike Wallace...

Knowing what you know now (that Percy will miss 10-12 weeks) and the draft picks you would have to give up to get him. Would you have rather preferred the Hawks to have tried to sign Mike Wallace straight up...or would you have still traded for Percy?

 

[NinerSickness]

Harvin has been in the league for four years, is established and is one of the best receivers in the game.

Austin is rookie, we haven't even seen him play a preseason down yet and you're already comparing him to Harvin?

Facepalm.

Comparing one player to another and the pro's & cons of having them long-term isn't the same thing as saying their immediate, respective, on-field performances are going to be similar.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Harvin has been in the league for four years, is established and is one of the best receivers in the game.

Austin is rookie, we haven't even seen him play a preseason down yet and you're already comparing him to Harvin?

Facepalm.

The point is that the Hawks would've had to give up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th to get a ball player that is like Percy Harvin as we stood in the draft at #25. You still lost? When PC/JS had to
decide on acquiring an all purpose player for their O, trading for Harvin or drafting Austin were the
2 options and yes, they're comparable.

DumbRabbit, you obviously need some insight on how to respond to a post and if you want to refute or try to facepalm someone, please follow some simple steps.

1. Read the actual post you're responding to.
2. Use the quote feature located at the bottom of the post.
3. Bold the statement(s) in the quote that you are attempting to refute.
4. Have just a semblance of knowledge of the topic you're discussing.
5. Corroborate with your "eye test", move into stats if appropriate and/or a 3rd party statement.


Referring to step #4, I don't believe you know the difference between Tavon Austin, Miles Austin or
Steve Austin.

Percy vs Tavon Austin.

Austin has burner speed. Check.
Austin was an all-purpose bad @$$ at West Virginia. Check.
Receiver, Rusher, Kick Returner (&punt) for 3,000 yds in 2012 alone. Check.
Paramount position is slot receiver. Check.
Passes the "eye test". Check

You still following, dumbrabbit?

Need additional corroborating support from tactic #5 above?

Here's a John Clayton quote and article published 4 days "after" this post on 8/4/13.

.........During his first three seasons, Bradford had to manage long, plodding offensive drives. No more. Austin is the one who changes the equation the most. He'll bring to the Rams' offense what the Seahawks thought they had when they traded a first- and third-round choice to acquire Percy Harvin. At West Virginia, Austin worked exclusively out of the slot. Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer is moving him around to a few different positions, but most of his work will be in the slot.

2013 NFL training camp -- Rams generating buzz - ESPN


DumbRabbit, are you getting the idea or are you still confused? Yes, it's appropriate to talk about Austin and Harvin. Plus, the point is to refute that the Hawks gave up so much in draft choice compensation which I refuted in both post #1 and #2 above.

Besides, what did I say in post #1 that you didn't read, comprehend or have knowledge about?

That is a HEFTY price to pay in draft considerations for Austin. The Harvin injury risk was there with Harvin but his production capabilities and NFL talent were documented. Austin is unproven and Harvin is still young.

DumbRabbit, I said that Harvin's production capabilities and NFL talent are documented while Austin is unproven! You're main refute and facepalm was already stated in post #1 above...

In conclusion, please follow steps 1 - 5 above and it's imperative that you have knowledge of the topic or you will ultimately be the one getting .

Next time, "U better bring ur A Game"

 

[SeattleOspreys]

With Tavon there's a risk that he might not even pan out as a player...

With Percy...you know you are getting one of the most dynamic play makers in the NFL. He established himself last year as an MVP candidate. Even if Tavon turns out to be a good player...he may never be as good as Percy is

Only real issue with Percy are the injuries. I personally think he will be good moving forward once he recovers from the hip surgery.

A more interesting comparison and hypothetical would be Percy Harvin and Mike Wallace...

Knowing what you know now (that Percy will miss 10-12 weeks) and the draft picks you would have to give up to get him. Would you have rather preferred the Hawks to have tried to sign Mike Wallace straight up...or would you have still traded for Percy?

Surprised you didn't follow along, either, LL. You have solid football knowledge. I already stated that Harvin's production is documented while Austin is an unknown. C'mon, LL. See above post delineating that exact quote.

Do you know why I didn't compare Mike Wallace to Percy Harvin, LL?

Besides the fact that Wallace has a 2014 cap hit of $17,000,000 which the Hawks would've been competing with, there is one obvious answer.

You know this because it's common NFL knowledge..... Think about it and you'll figure it out. If not, I will be back later in the week.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Knowing what you know now (that Percy will miss 10-12 weeks) and the draft picks you would have to give up to get him. Would you have rather preferred the Hawks to have tried to sign Mike Wallace straight up...or would you have still traded for Percy?

NEITHER!

I would've drafted DeAndre Hopkins, who is going to be an NFL go to receiver.

I never wanted Mike Wallace and "knowing what I know now" with Harvin hip issues, I'd pass
on Harvin.

 

[Clayton]

Percy Harvin is a little over 3 years older and is missing most of this year. So you'd be getting an extra 4 years out of Tavon Austin. Thats where the value comes in.

That said...never comfortable comparing a proven player with an unproven player.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Percy Harvin is a little over 3 years older and is missing most of this year. So you'd be getting an extra 4 years out of Tavon Austin. Thats where the value comes in.

That said...never comfortable comparing a proven player with an unproven player.

The Hawks wanted instant Harvin production that is "documented" like I already previously stated.
I would have gone for Harvin over Austin. With that said and mentioned by John Clayton,
they are "very similar" players and the scheme fits are IDENTICAL and Harvin is in his prime at 25.

Are both players identical scheme fits, Clayton?

If you didn't follow Austin at WVU, I'll answer it and tell you, "yes" they're identical scheme fits if there ever was a perfect scheme fit match. These 2 are it. Obviously, you don't know about Austin production because he hasn't played a NFL game yet. and reason I would've gone Harvin.

There were 2 doors for that all purpose player that can be a slot receiver, a kick returner
and a rushing threat out of the backfield and a guy that can move all over the los:

Behind door #1 was Percy Harvin and Seattle gives $$ and their 25th pick, a 2014 3rd and a 7th or:

Behind door # 2 is Austin which is more expensive in draft comp but less $$. Austin which
would cost us our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th. Remember, Rams at #16 used a 1st, 2nd
and 7th to move to #8.

Rams gave up a top half 1st, 2nd and 7th for Tavon and reason I'd rather have gone Harvin,
which was $$ expensive but minor in draft selection compensation because of the "documented"
NFL success. Many blogs had fans laughing at what the Hawks gave up in draft picks but it
was less than what the Rams gave up for Tavon.

Think! 2 Choices... Door #1 or Door #2 for "comparable players". 1 proven and 1 draft prospect.
Hawks went door #1 with the goal to hoist a Lombardi, which Hawk fans fully understand.

This is way toooo easy to comprehend for fans to be so confused...

 

[Clayton]

I think Austin's value was slightly inflated because teams Ninja'd WRs ahead of the Rams last year. Blackmon in particular but Arizona also grabbed Floyd.

Im guessing both deals made sense for the teams that got them.