P.J. Fleck >>> Jim Harbaugh

[Wamu]

And I stand by that. Harbaugh is a great coach. There are 10-20 great coaches in CFB right now. Very few are elite.

Okay name the 10-20 "great coaches" out there right now. This should be interesting.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Okay name the 10-20 "great coaches" out there right now. This should be interesting.

That shouldn't be hard. I'll rattle off 10 "great" coaches off the top of my head. I'm going to include Saban and Dabo because elite coaches would also be considered great.

Saban, Dabo, (in no order) Harbaugh, Dantonio, Kelly, Fleck, Franklin, Riley, Day, Patterson, Peterson (before he quit), Jimbo, Smart, Mullen.....

There's 14 off the top of my head. I think that already meets the great 10-20 comment I made.

 

[Wamu]

That shouldn't be hard. I'll rattle off 10 "great" coaches off the top of my head. I'm going to include Saban and Dabo because elite coaches would also be considered great.

Saban, Dabo, (in no order) Harbaugh, Dantonio, Kelly, Fleck, Franklin, Riley, Day, Patterson, Peterson (before he quit), Jimbo, Smart, Mullen.....

There's 14 off the top of my head. I think that already meets the great 10-20 comment I made.

You can't mention a coach (Peterson) that's not longer coaching. If you're gonna do that why not mention Meyer & Bowden?

I guess your defintion of a great coach varies from mine. You mentioned several good coaches. And only three of them (Saban, Dabo & Fisher) have a complete CFB coaching resume. You know, have won everything a coach can. The only great coaches out there like I've said before are Saban & Dabo. It's them, and then the others.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

You can't mention a coach (Peterson) that's not longer coaching. If you're gonna do that why not mention Meyer & Bowden?

I guess your defintion of a great coach varies from mine. You mentioned several good coaches. And only three of them (Saban, Dabo & Fisher) have a complete CFB coaching resume. You know, have won everything a coach can. The only great coaches out there like I've said before are Saban & Dabo. It's them, and then the others.

I'd call a "good" coach someone like Pat Fitzgerald, though I guess an argument could be made that he's a great one. Or even Allen at Indiana or Brohm at Purdue (maybe?) or Fickell at Cinci. Those are good coaches, at lower end schools or maybe even major schools and right at the cusp of doing something great or being poached by a major school in the next coaching cycle.

 

[Wamu]

I'd call a "good" coach someone like Pat Fitzgerald, though I guess an argument could be made that he's a great one. Or even Allen at Indiana or Brohm at Purdue (maybe?) or Fickell at Cinci. Those are good coaches, at lower end schools or maybe even major schools and right at the cusp of doing something great or being poached by a major school in the next coaching cycle.

Back to what I was originally talking about. What exactly makes JH a great coach? He's won nothing. Just because you hope he accomplishes what he was brought to ann arbor to do (which after 5 years he's failed on all levels) doesn't mean he's a great coach like you keep claiming.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Back to what I was originally talking about. What exactly makes JH a great coach? He's won nothing. Just because you hope he accomplishes what he was brought to ann arbor to do (which after 5 years he's failed on all levels) doesn't mean he's a great coach like you keep claiming.

The answer to that is - a lot of games, and has a great winning percentage. Despite the lack of upsets/championships.

 

[7Samurai13]

I'd call a "good" coach someone like Pat Fitzgerald, though I guess an argument could be made that he's a great one. Or even Allen at Indiana or Brohm at Purdue (maybe?) or Fickell at Cinci. Those are good coaches, at lower end schools or maybe even major schools and right at the cusp of doing something great or being poached by a major school in the next coaching cycle.

I’d argue Fitz is a better coach than Harbs.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I’d argue Fitz is a better coach than Harbs.

No matter how you rank them, calling them great coaches shouldn't be controversial

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

The question is why some people care about every over exaggeration on something so unimportant? The point being that they're fucking impressive walkways for students that tower over the Mississippi.

It's the Trump Derangement Syndrome thing. The MSM has been SO Hyper focused on jumping all over every single one of Trump's little exaggerations that it's rubbing off on the rest of society, so odds are anyone ripping on you about it leans to the left or at least does not like and support Trump.

I mean, there are times when the information a person provides should be accurate and precise, like in a term paper, in a newscast, in a published article or book, when giving a public lecture, etc..

But in just casual conversation? Nah, give us all a break, I mean, what the fuck, chill out, relax. I'm from Minnesota, I knew you were exaggerating, subconsciously at least, but didn't care. What harm was your exaggeration doing? NONE, none whatsoever. I could tell you were just being expressive of how high it SEEMED to be.

Now I'm responding early, haven't read the next couple of pages, I'm hoping this didn't end up being a back and forth thing for the next 2-3 pages, lol. Now I'll keep reading and see, haha.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

A pure gem from mNb09 (from the Bo Pelini >>> Jim Harbaugh thread, comment # 86)

"I believe I've argued he's a great college coach; one of the best 10-20 in the game. Which I still say he is"




There aren't 10-20 great college coaches right now. There's two. Saban & Dabo. Just more proof that homers will always be homers.

I'd say there is at least 3. And if you don't know who that 3rd one is yet? Well, you will soon.

 

[Wamu]

The answer to that is - a lot of games, and has a great winning percentage. Despite the lack of upsets/championships.

You're such a funny homer. So a .661 winning % for his college coaching career's great? He's also 2-5 bowl game (.286). His .723 winning % at meeeechegan isn't great either.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

It's the Trump Derangement Syndrome thing. The MSM has been SO Hyper focused on jumping all over every single one of Trump's little exaggerations that it's rubbing off on the rest of society, so odds are anyone ripping on you about it leans to the left or at least does not like and support Trump.

I mean, there are times when the information a person provides should be accurate and precise, like in a term paper, in a newscast, in a published article or book, when giving a public lecture, etc..

But in just casual conversation? Nah, give us all a break, I mean, what the fuck, chill out, relax. I'm from Minnesota, I knew you were exaggerating, subconsciously at least, but didn't care. What harm was your exaggeration doing? NONE, none whatsoever. I could tell you were just being expressive of how high it SEEMED to be.

Now I'm responding early, haven't read the next couple of pages, I'm hoping this didn't end up being a back and forth thing for the next 2-3 pages, lol. Now I'll keep reading and see, haha.

It did....sigh.

And now that I'm looking again, the actual walkway has to be 20-30 feet above the bottom of the bridge. So where people are walking over it would be about 100 feet up. But, again, it's pretty unimportant. I thought they were cool as heck.

 

[Wamu]

I'd say there is at least 3. And if you don't know who that 3rd one is yet? Well, you will soon.

I hope you're right about Fleck. I've enjoyed watching his turnaround of the Gophers. I always root for all BigTen teams except for that program in ann arbor.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

You're such a funny homer. So a .661 winning % for his college coaching career's great? He's also 2-5 bowl game (.286). His .723 winning % at meeeechegan isn't great either.

That puts him at top 15 in the span of time he's been here nationally in winning percentage. Of 130+ teams, being top 15 would probably be "great" by most definitions.

 

[Wamu]

That puts him at top 15 in the span of time he's been here nationally in winning percentage. Of 130+ teams, being top 15 would probably be "great" by most definitions.

Great coaches have won things. The only thing JH has won is his Spring Game. What's really bizarre is if a coach from just about any other decent P5 program had JH's career resume you wouldn't be calling that great. But homer on!

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I hope you're right about Fleck. I've enjoyed watching his turnaround of the Gophers. I always root for all BigTen teams except for that program in ann arbor.

Well, SO FAR, he hasn't done anything more, on paper, than Glen Mason did. Mason got KSU(or was it Kansas?) back above .500, then he bolted to Minny, and within 3 years had Gopher fans excited about the future, but then he peaked and what we figured out was he was able to recruit really good starters, but couldn't fill the entire roster up with enough talent, so as soon as one key player went down with injury, the specific example I am thinking about was a defensive guy, well teams were able to throw on us at will, and well, we struggled the rest of that season without that one player. That is NOT a great coach, that's a decent coach. He suffered from that lack of depth throughout his time at Minnesota, and then there were TWO record breaking comebacks he allowed to happen. Which proved he might not even have been a decent coach, just a decent recruiter maybe? And so he got fired. I guess he's an ok commentator?


I think Fleck is different, and his recruiting classes are the best for Minnesota every recorded by 247, best single season(2020), and best 3 year(18-20) classes for Minnesota since 247 has been doing their thing.

So hopefully that means he's filling up the entire roster with quality talent, so that when injuries happen, guys are able to step up without a significant drop in talent level. And hopefully when great players graduate or bolt early for the NFL, he is able to just reload. Mason always had to rebuild.

My intuition says Fleck is doing that. But my intuition has been wrong before. I mean, I'm a frigging Homer, for sure, lol. It's why my gambling rule is this, NEVER bet on the Gophers, and never bet on teams the Gophers have played. This rule as served me well. Although I do occasionally break the rule, I bet on the Gophers twice this season, once against a cocky arrogant co-worker and my really cool boss vs PSU. The boss gave me 10 points, the co-worker gave me 7.5 pts, so that next week at work was a very enjoyable one, lol. The other bet was after game #3 of the season, my father got frustrated that we almost lost that game, and exclaimed, they'll never win another game. I said, want to bet? I offered a 100 a game. I thought he turned me down, but after the PSU game he told me over the phone he owed me 45 bucks. So I guess he said yes to 5 bucks a game? I don't remember it, but I was just happy that me, the optimist, was right, and my dad, the pessimist, was shown to be wrong.


I'll admit, the Iowa loss and UW crushing us turned me a little pessimistic, so I didn't think we'd beat Auburn. Started to wonder if Fleck might not be another Mason? But that game and how he closed out the recruiting for 2020 has my hopes up again. I think Fleck can get the recruiting classes into the high teens by next year maybe, the year after for sure, as long as he wins 9-11 games each of the next 2 years. And that would keep him on pace to match up with what Dabo did at Clemson. I'm cool with that.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Great coaches have won things. The only thing JH has won is his Spring Game. What's really bizarre is if a coach from just about any other decent P5 program had JH's career resume you wouldn't be calling that great. But homer on!

Hey, I'm NOT taking his side, but the one thing I think that can be said, and is why Michigan fans like JH, and while an OSU fan might not be impressed, is that Michigan was seriously sucking wind before JH came. I mean, I'm going off the top of my head memory, but they were struggling to get to 8 wins, as far as I remember, and he bumped them up a notch immediately.

But I'd put JH on the same level/bar as Glen Mason. GM bumped Minny up a notch, up a level, from where they were before he got there, but then hit HIS ceiling. Seems JH was able to bump Michigan up a notch, up a level, from where they were before he got there, but since doing that, it seems he has hit HIS ceiling?

 

[Wamu]

Hey, I'm NOT taking his side, but the one thing I think that can be said, and is why Michigan fans like JH, and while an OSU fan might not be impressed, is that Michigan was seriously sucking wind before JH came. I mean, I'm going off the top of my head memory, but they were struggling to get to 8 wins, as far as I remember, and he bumped them up a notch immediately.

But I'd put JH on the same level/bar as Glen Mason. GM bumped Minny up a notch, up a level, from where they were before he got there, but then hit HIS ceiling. Seems JH was able to bump Michigan up a notch, up a level, from where they were before he got there, but since doing that, it seems he has hit HIS ceiling?

I have always given credit to JH on how he doubled the team win total his first year from 5 to 10. And said countless times he's a good coach. But he's not great like trustme thinks. And looking up their year by year record you're right about the 8 wins. From '08 to '14 they only did that twice.

And while I'd be lying if I said I don't enjoy taking shots at JH & his program what I've been saying to trustme is all facts. But I'll admit I get a good laugh out of his overly homeristic responses. Instead of being totally unbiased & looking at the real numbers he more often than not is judging JH on what he hopes he does & not what he's really done.

 

[Innermind]

Is this the tall bridge thread?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Is this the tall bridge thread?

The second to last bridge is horrifying.