OT: Name some things that drive you fucking nuts

[jstewismybastardson]

5) Illegally infringing upon the rights of the media and others to record officers working. They arrested two members of the media simply because they were members of the media. They went into a McDonalds and forced everyone to leave, stating they were trespassing (although customers). They told the guys they had to stop recording, which someone doesn't have to unless it's interfering with an investigation. These guys were later released with no explanation because the chief found out and knew it'd be a mess. There's also video from the "front lines" last night of the police telling people to turn off their cameras. It's just damning to do that.

There could also be a distinct racial factor from the eye witnesses. I don't know this to specifically be the case, but in a town with significant racial tensions and a population that is something like 70% African American but a police force that's 90% white, it's not a stretch to believe that there could be a (deserved) distrust for the town PD in general.

Regarding #3, I see it as a double-edged sword. In the current situation, they are criticized for being overly militarized and heavy-handed. If this situation suddenly turned into LA 1992 though, the police force would be criticized for not doing enough to keep the situation from getting out of control. It's a tough balance to keep and one that they don't seem to be handling real well. I think part of that comes from the fact that this is a big-city force coming to a small town.

on the bold ... goes the other way with the police too

I think it was one of those washington post reporters that pix mentioned who was detained that said as the officer was manhandling him (paraphrasing) ... "its enough that we have to deal with those animals out there" ... im not paraphrasing the "animals" part ... he called them animals ... like you mentioned this is a town thats 70% black ... Ive also heard there have been no murders in Ferguson during 2014 ... that is until the kid got "killed" ... the town imo doesnt sound like the powder keg that a LA/Watts or Detroit once upon a time was

what i saw/heard during the livestream from last night was of course just a moment in time ... I heard swearing from the protestors ... obvious anger but also alot of choreographed hands in the air and chants of "dont shoot" (mocking the police)

I didnt see anything thrown (could have happened before of course) but a good 15 minutes went on and 3 final warnings from police to leave ... then came the LRAD (which actually hurt my ears) ... then came the tear gas/smoke bombs ... then came the rubber bullets ... the reporter filming the livestream ran with the others and the rubber bullets were then being fired indiscriminately hitting and shattering windows of peoples homes

idk ... a bit much all around imo

 

[pixburgher66]

Didn't want to quote your whole post Pix because it would make things a little crazy-long, but a couple of thoughts.

I don't disagree on #1, except that it's not the individual officer's fault that he has no dashcam, unless he tampered with or removed it. Like I said, I like to have all the facts. There have been a number of interesting studies on the reliability (or lack thereof) of eye witnesses to events. Here's just one example talking about the topic:
Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts - Scientific American

There could also be a distinct racial factor from the eye witnesses. I don't know this to specifically be the case, but in a town with significant racial tensions and a population that is something like 70% African American but a police force that's 90% white, it's not a stretch to believe that there could be a (deserved) distrust for the town PD in general.

Regarding #3, I see it as a double-edged sword. In the current situation, they are criticized for being overly militarized and heavy-handed. If this situation suddenly turned into LA 1992 though, the police force would be criticized for not doing enough to keep the situation from getting out of control. It's a tough balance to keep and one that they don't seem to be handling real well. I think part of that comes from the fact that this is a big-city force coming to a small town.

Regarding #4, I don't know the rules in Missouri specifically, but I know that where I live the PD together with the city/county do have a certain degree of flexibility to establish and enforce temporary curfews.

I certainly agree about the trust factor of eyewitnesses, and I don't blame the officer for not having a dashcam, that's on the department. The curfew thing just scares me because that's stripping very basic freedoms of people. There is blame on both sides, but whomever is leading the charge needs to be removed from the situation. #4, I'm really not sure on. This was information I was given by someone who knew better than I did about the law in general.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

on the bold ... goes the other way with the police too

Absolutely. That's why I posted in my original (and longer) post about the brotherhood possibly interfering with a proper investigation. That's also why I think there's a good chance that the skepticism of the police could be deserved.

I guess it all points back to my original main point that people making judgments on the situation this early on are jumping the gun (no pun intended).

 

[forty_three]

Regarding #3, I see it as a double-edged sword. In the current situation, they are criticized for being overly militarized and heavy-handed. If this situation suddenly turned into LA 1992 though, the police force would be criticized for not doing enough to keep the situation from getting out of control. It's a tough balance to keep and one that they don't seem to be handling real well. I think part of that comes from the fact that this is a big-city force coming to a small town.

First of all, Homeland Security money is flowing like a Snoop Dpgg VIP Room party. Every locality gets a slice. And if you don't spend it, you lose it next year. So a lot of departments are buying toys they really don't need. My town bought lights, surveillance equipment and crash proof bollards for the park around a dam. After replacing every vehicle in their fleet last year. So this "militarization" isn't necessarily happening because they really want it to. But they are getting free stuff from Uncle Sam, so why not?

And when you consider cases like Moncton, Christopher Dorner, Boston Marathon, the two in Vegas that went hunting cops and countless body armored bank shootouts like Burbank, maybe that has something to do with *why* they feel the need to do it. Using it properly is the key. And that isn't happening here, it seems.

In an arms race, the only winner is the arms dealer.

 

[forty_three]

Absolutely. That's why I posted in my original (and longer) post about the brotherhood possibly interfering with a proper investigation. That's also why I think there's a good chance that the skepticism of the police could be deserved.

In my experience, the brotherhood has limits. They will stand up for one another under fire. But if one jurisdiction fucks something up and it negatively affects others... the others will jump all over them for it.

State cops don't like local boys and vice versa. Professionally, they are in the same battle. But most courtesy ends when the attention is turned off. The attention this is getting, the State and St Lou police are probably chomping at the bit to slap around the locals for letting it happen.

 

[Comeds]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Military veterans see deeply flawed police response in Ferguson - The Washington Post

Former Army officer on Ferguson: "I can't think of a [protest] situation where the use of M4 [rifles] are merited."

 

[pixburgher66]

People know this is fake, right?

 

[jstewismybastardson]

People know this is fake, right?

my buddy Mike Hunt told me it was legit shit ...

 

[dash]

People know this is fake, right?

I sure hope so - Although Newsradio 1130 in Vancouver has a reporter named Anita Bathe, so...

 

[pixburgher66]

First of all, Homeland Security money is flowing like a Snoop Dpgg VIP Room party. Every locality gets a slice. And if you don't spend it, you lose it next year. So a lot of departments are buying toys they really don't need. My town bought lights, surveillance equipment and crash proof bollards for the park around a dam. After replacing every vehicle in their fleet last year. So this "militarization" isn't necessarily happening because they really want it to. But they are getting free stuff from Uncle Sam, so why not?

And when you consider cases like Moncton, Christopher Dorner, Boston Marathon, the two in Vegas that went hunting cops and countless body armored bank shootouts like Burbank, maybe that has something to do with *why* they feel the need to do it. Using it properly is the key. And that isn't happening here, it seems.

In an arms race, the only winner is the arms dealer.

Good point, but merely scares me a bit more...because you can't tell me that these guys are all fully trained how to use all this equipment. Those situations indicated let me see this equipment and feel a bit more comfortable, but the other side of the coin is that equipment being misused.

 

[forty_three]

Good point, but merely scares me a bit more...because you can't tell me that these guys are all fully trained how to use all this equipment. Those situations indicated let me see this equipment and feel a bit more comfortable, but the other side of the coin is that equipment being misused.

You also have to consider the culture of the department deciding what to buy, those rules are very loose. Some buy armored vehicles and assault weapons, some protect vulnerable resources.

I always wonder the motivation behind each...

 

[pixburgher66]

Military veterans see deeply flawed police response in Ferguson - The Washington Post

This article is pretty good, but I think that because it pretty much aligns with my position. They're way out of their league. Or they were. It appears the situation has de-escalated as the MO Highway Patrol has been put on "duty" in Ferguson.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Military veterans see deeply flawed police response in Ferguson - The Washington Post

Former Army officer on Ferguson: "I can't think of a [protest] situation where the use of M4 [rifles] are merited."

Military veterans see deeply flawed police response in Ferguson - The Washington Post

This article is pretty good, but I think that because it pretty much aligns with my position. They're way out of their league. Or they were. It appears the situation has de-escalated as the MO Highway Patrol has been put on "duty" in Ferguson.

Attagirl mattola

 

[pixburgher66]

https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery

Good info.

 

[pixburgher66]

Attagirl mattola

Haaaaahhhh...sorry, sorry.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Regarding the idiocy plus militarization equals amateur hour bullcrap nature of those running the show in ferguson .. I was trying to find it but last night i saw an image of a reporter holding unspent flash bang grenades/cartridges that were left on someones lawn

 

[Comeds]

People know this is fake, right?

Sgt. Philip McCracken told me its real.

 

[elocomotive]

Sgt. Philip McCracken told me its real.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I don't believe the name until KTVU confirms it for me.