OT: Hey GP

[calsnowskier]

IIRC, the greek word Knossos = truth and is the root of "gnos". So a "gnostic" would know the truth (i.e. a deist) and an "agnostic" would be one who doesn't know the truth, or is unsure of it.

So "Gnostic" and "Atheist" are redundant, than?

 

[Heathbar012]

I love everything about this thread. Honestly, one of the most reasoned, respectful and worthwhile discussions I've seen. The fact that this discussion exists makes me more proud to be an American (or human for that matter) than any action taken by our government.

 

[tzill]

So "Gnostic" and "Atheist" are redundant, than?

Why yes. Yes they are.

 

[tzill]

I love everything about this thread. Honestly, one of the most reasoned, respectful and worthwhile discussions I've seen. The fact that this discussion exists makes me more proud to be an American (or human for that matter) than any action taken by our government.

Cmon...you KNOW it's better to make attention whore pronouncements and get into long threads where nothing of substance is discuss....oh, wait -- wrong board.

 

[nateistheshi]

A fair analogy, and let me respond like this: I wouldn't celebrate the killing of a shark either. However, other people throwing a "shark is dead" party wouldn't offend me. Sharks aren't human, and are not created in the image of G-d, so their lives are not as precious.

As an aside, I doubt you're really an atheist; more likely you're agnostic.

If you wouldn't celebrate that either, then you make a level-headed argument and I respect you for it. I disagree with you on the bolded part, since the fact that the shark would be a killer of men out of hunger, whereas Bin Laden was a killer of men out of hatred. In my mind that far outweighs any bonus to the value of his life that Bin Laden gets for being human, but to each his own.

 

[CameronFrye]

I think it's pretty clear that capital punishment does not deter murder. However, I may be misunderstanding your point -- you may be making a larger, more philosophical argument.

That said, I give you this:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

The Martin Luther quote has been found to be partially fabricated. King actually did state everything from "Returning hate..." through to the end of the quote. But the first sentence is not his. A Facebook user combined her thoughts with King's quote and the entire thing was picked up on Twitter as a King quote. It spread like a virus before it could be corrected.

That being said, I have to add my $0.02 in here. While I agree that running through the streets waving American flags screaming USA! is a bit over the top, I, for one, cannot help but abandon my basic Libertarian beliefs and smile at the thought of that piece of shit being dead. Could the US have captured him alive and brought him back home for trial? No doubt. Would that have been the civilized thing to do? Yes, it would have. But in the end, did putting a bullet in his brain solve a lot of pain, heartache and sorrow as well as money and potential backlash? You betcha.

I am not a religious person. I believe most Christian religions to be shams and farcical fairy tales. At the very most, I would be a deist. At the least, I am an atheist. Most often, I consider myself to be agnostic. I tell you that to tell you that I do not believe that bin Laden is answering for his crimes to his maker because I do not subscribe to that point of view. What I believe is that the United States gave him the retribution that he deserved and any trial would have been too good for him. I also love the fact that they "buried" him at sea to prevent any kind of shrine to be built at his grave site.

May he rot at the bottom of the sea.

 

[tzill]

The Martin Luther quote has been found to be partially fabricated. King actually did state everything from "Returning hate..." through to the end of the quote. But the first sentence is not his. A Facebook user combined her thoughts with King's quote and the entire thing was picked up on Twitter as a King quote. It spread like a virus before it could be corrected.

That being said, I have to add my $0.02 in here. While I agree that running through the streets waving American flags screaming USA! is a bit over the top, I, for one, cannot help but abandon my basic Libertarian beliefs and smile at the thought of that piece of shit being dead. Could the US have captured him alive and brought him back home for trial? No doubt. Would that have been the civilized thing to do? Yes, it would have. But in the end, did putting a bullet in his brain solve a lot of pain, heartache and sorrow as well as money and potential backlash? You betcha.

I am not a religious person. I believe most Christian religions to be shams and farcical fairy tales. At the very most, I would be a deist. At the least, I am an atheist. Most often, I consider myself to be agnostic. I tell you that to tell you that I do not believe that bin Laden is answering for his crimes to his maker because I do not subscribe to that point of view. What I believe is that the United States gave him the retribution that he deserved and any trial would have been too good for him. I also love the fact that they "buried" him at sea to prevent any kind of shrine to be built at his grave site.

May he rot at the bottom of the sea.

I understand your point of view, and at least you're honest about it. Here's my problem: there are a LOT of people (mostly of the kneejerk, jingoistic right wing "Merca, Luv it or be a commie" type) who feel that OBL's death is a personal victory, ala the Miracle on Ice. It isn't. You can be glad he's dead; that's fine. I'm not; it makes me sick to think of getting glee from another human's demise. He needed to be neutralized and sometimes that means death. I get it.

But celebrating his death is self-absorbed and vile. It's playing G-d and saying "I'm a better person so I live." The guy had family, he had friends, he had people who cared about him. Imagine if one of your cousins turned out to be the unibomber -- a cousin you always kind of liked. How would you feel if people were dancing in the streets over his execution? Pretty shitty, I'd think.

Not to say you do any of that Cam -- you seem like a reasonable dude. I myself was relieved when I heard the news. But joyous? That's just wrong.

 

[gp956]

I understand your point of view, and at least you're honest about it. Here's my problem: there are a LOT of people (mostly of the kneejerk, jingoistic right wing "Merca, Luv it or be a commie" type) who feel that OBL's death is a personal victory, ala the Miracle on Ice. It isn't. You can be glad he's dead; that's fine. I'm not; it makes me sick to think of getting glee from another human's demise. He needed to be neutralized and sometimes that means death. I get it.

But celebrating his death is self-absorbed and vile. It's playing G-d and saying "I'm a better person so I live." The guy had family, he had friends, he had people who cared about him. Imagine if one of your cousins turned out to be the unibomber -- a cousin you always kind of liked. How would you feel if people were dancing in the streets over his execution? Pretty shitty, I'd think.

Not to say you do any of that Cam -- you seem like a reasonable dude. I myself was relieved when I heard the news. But joyous? That's just wrong.

That's just the icing on the cake, IMO.

 

[msgkings322]

I understand your point of view, and at least you're honest about it. Here's my problem: there are a LOT of people (mostly of the kneejerk, jingoistic right wing "Merca, Luv it or be a commie" type) who feel that OBL's death is a personal victory, ala the Miracle on Ice. It isn't. You can be glad he's dead; that's fine. I'm not; it makes me sick to think of getting glee from another human's demise. He needed to be neutralized and sometimes that means death. I get it.

But celebrating his death is self-absorbed and vile. It's playing G-d and saying "I'm a better person so I live." The guy had family, he had friends, he had people who cared about him. Imagine if one of your cousins turned out to be the unibomber -- a cousin you always kind of liked. How would you feel if people were dancing in the streets over his execution? Pretty shitty, I'd think.
Not to say you do any of that Cam -- you seem like a reasonable dude. I myself was relieved when I heard the news. But joyous? That's just wrong.

Interesting thought experiment. Personally if a family member or friend turns out to be pure batshit evil, then they deserve what's coming to them IMO. I don't give friends and family a pass to behave worse than strangers. Would I feel 'shitty' if others celebrated the justice meted out to a family member who deserved it? Not really, no. Not ecstatic, of course, but I would be ok with it, as I am now.

That said, I do wish everyone would show some class on this news. And in fact the majority have. So I'm ok with how it's transpired.

 

[tzill]

Interesting thought experiment. Personally if a family member or friend turns out to be pure batshit evil, then they deserve what's coming to them IMO. I don't give friends and family a pass to behave worse than strangers. Would I feel 'shitty' if others celebrated the justice meted out to a family member who deserved it? Not really, no. Not ecstatic, of course, but I would be ok with it, as I am now.

That said, I do wish everyone would show some class on this news. And in fact the majority have. So I'm ok with how it's transpired.

Nobody sane is arguing OBL didn't have it coming, so let's leave that out. I've no idea if OBL's mother is alive but if she is do we really need to rub her face in it? We got him. It's over. No need to jump up and down and puff up our chests. It's at LEAST classless and if you're a person of faith (as many of these jingoistic douchebags claim) it's fucking WRONG.

That's it. Ranting over.

 

[gp956]

I think it's pretty clear that capital punishment does not deter murder. However, I may be misunderstanding your point -- you may be making a larger, more philosophical argument.

That said, I give you this:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

“Fake quotes born on the internet are totes lame” - Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Heathbar012]

“Fake quotes born on the internet are totes lame” - Abraham Lincoln.

Hahahaha. If I could rep that, I would.

 

[msgkings322]

“Fake quotes born on the internet are totes lame” - Abraham Lincoln.

Outstanding.

 

[gp956]

Nobody sane is arguing OBL didn't have it coming, so let's leave that out. I've no idea if OBL's mother is alive but if she is do we really need to rub her face in it? We got him. It's over. No need to jump up and down and puff up our chests. It's at LEAST classless and if you're a person of faith (as many of these jingoistic douchebags claim) it's fucking WRONG.

That's it. Ranting over.

I just see it as well within the normal range of responses people usually have over good news. Just take note of human nature and move on. Although this comes from someone who "toasted" the brain death of an old colleague who plagiarized intellectual property from me years before ( objectively, the guy was a POS, who also abandoned his primary mentor when he was no longer useful) . The guy was pulled off life-support on my birthday too - kind of see the Hand of God in those kind of coincidences.

 

[tzill]

This, from Kevin Durant -- who was 12 miles away from Flight 77 on 9/11:

While people in Durant’s hometown of Washington celebrated bin Laden’s death in front of the White House early Monday, Durant didn’t feel the same need to celebrate.

“I’m not big on rejoicing because we killed the enemy,” Durant said. “Jesus wouldn’t do that. …It’s big for our country. It’s someone they were looking for a long time. But I’m not into rejoicing over a killed enemy.”

Preach on it KD...preach on it.

 

[CameronFrye]

This, from Kevin Durant -- who was 12 miles away from Flight 77 on 9/11:

While people in Durant’s hometown of Washington celebrated bin Laden’s death in front of the White House early Monday, Durant didn’t feel the same need to celebrate.

“I’m not big on rejoicing because we killed the enemy,” Durant said. “Jesus wouldn’t do that. …It’s big for our country. It’s someone they were looking for a long time. But I’m not into rejoicing over a killed enemy.”

Preach on it KD...preach on it.

I am going to make a bracelet that says WWKDD? and start selling it.

 

[filosofy29]

I always used if for my own selfish reasons....."we Want Jack Daniels".

 

[filosofy29]

BTw, this thread is the reason why I love this board.

 

[calsnowskier]

BTw, this thread is the reason why I love this board.

I like this board because it is MUCH more intimate. I feel like all of us are actually friends now. Over at the dumdum, it is more of a bar. You sit down and stark talking to whatever jackass happens to be sitting next to you, and more often than not, it either some drunk who can't make a coherent sentence or some punk out to start a brawl.

This is a bit more like the family room. We sit down on the sofa, pop a beer and talk with your bud about whatever happens to come to mind.

Even our spill over convos over on the dumdum have a different feel between us. We are "in the club".

Thanks for putting this together, Filo...

 

[filosofy29]

I like this board because it is MUCH more intimate. I feel like all of us are actually friends now. Over at the dumdum, it is more of a bar. You sit down and stark talking to whatever jackass happens to be sitting next to you, and more often than not, it either some drunk who can't make a coherent sentence or some punk out to start a brawl.

This is a bit more like the family room. We sit down on the sofa, pop a beer and talk with your bud about whatever happens to come to mind.

Even our spill over convos over on the dumdum have a different feel between us. We are "in the club".

Thanks for putting this together, Filo...

Well spoken on the first three paragraphs Cal; I agree.

As for the last one, you guys are all good guys who make this board what it is. I'm just along for the ride.....and to steal all of your guys' collective baseball knowledge and pawn it off as my own.....



EDIT: Also, the championship was SOOOOO (or at least seemed) much sweeter without all Teh Pantchitters and Attention Whores.