• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

OT - France lays down the burqa hammer

Comeds

Unreliable Narrator.
24,205
13,074
1,033
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Location
Baltimore
Hoopla Cash
$ 754.60
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Perhaps... But I can definitely see this issue translated into a liberal/conservative debate. Conservatives are very traditional, for the most part, and would not favor people walking around with their faces covered. Liberals, for the most part, always feel they have to defend those who feel they are oppressed. Its ridiculous.

Stereotypical conservatives are also against passing more laws restricting freedoms and regulating how people live. That's usually what they claim the left does.
 

pixburgher66

I like your beard.
26,285
521
113
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Location
Pittsburgh
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So...the women who are against it probably don't wear them anyway (as was said, the numbers have dropped significantly), which means those wearing them still probably believe they're doing it for a good reason. And if the number of women doing it is so small, why did France feel the need to take this right away? I'm just saying that chances are fairly thin that there's women in France that now feel "free" to show their face because of this law, it's probably more likely that they angered those that are stout in their beliefs and now can no longer do it. I guess I'm just thinking that I'd be really angry if the US government told me I was dressing too conservatively or something along those lines. Why should they control what I dress in? Obviously there are times (like nudity in public) it makes sense, but heck, even in France that doesn't seem to be a big deal.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I dont view this as restricting freedom.
 

KillerVee

Active Member
17,900
16
38
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Location
Austin, TX
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
which means those wearing them still probably believe they're doing it for a good reason.

No. No, no, no. These women are not wearing these by choice. They are wearing them because their husbands and fathers don't allow them to make their own decisions. It's not like there any husbands to people who wear burqa's that are like "Whatever you want is ok with me, babe." It's more like "Wear it, or I will beat you. Or possibly kill you." Because "Honor Killings" are a very real and very scary thing.
 

pixburgher66

I like your beard.
26,285
521
113
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Location
Pittsburgh
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I dont view this as restricting freedom.

It's the government telling women that they aren't allowed to wear a veil, even though many of them believe that it should be done as part of their religion. Religion is a big part of human life, and I understand the sentiment that it shouldn't interfere with government, but that should go both ways. I get what you're saying about things being done in private, like sacrifices or whatever, but this is harming no one.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
It's the government telling women that they aren't allowed to wear a veil, even though many of them believe that it should be done as part of their religion. Religion is a big part of human life, and I understand the sentiment that it shouldn't interfere with government, but that should go both ways. I get what you're saying about things being done in private, like sacrifices or whatever, but this is harming no one.

Says who? Many women are harmed by this, but won't come out and say it out of fear. And like I stated earlier, hiding one's identity is very harmful to the public.
 

Winged_Wheel88

ND 14 UM 45
129,431
12,056
1,033
Joined
May 6, 2010
Location
Michigan, USA
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
No. No, no, no. These women are not wearing these by choice. They are wearing them because their husbands and fathers don't allow them to make their own decisions. It's not like there any husbands to people who wear burqa's that are like "Whatever you want is ok with me, babe." It's more like "Wear it, or I will beat you. Or possibly kill you." Because "Honor Killings" are a very real and very scary thing.

You can say that again.
 

pixburgher66

I like your beard.
26,285
521
113
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Location
Pittsburgh
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
No. No, no, no. These women are not wearing these by choice. They are wearing them because their husbands and fathers don't allow them to make their own decisions. It's not like there any husbands to people who wear burqa's that are like "Whatever you want is ok with me, babe." It's more like "Wear it, or I will beat you. Or possibly kill you." Because "Honor Killings" are a very real and very scary thing.

I realize that. But two things: now the government won't allow it so women have to choose between defying government, or their husbands. But more relevant is that the Muslim population in France is probably a more conservative branch of the religion as is (like you stated, the number which still wear veils even has greatly decreased), so honor killings may not be as typical. I understand the significance of those. Horrendous doesn't even begin to describe them (wrote numerous papers on the subject last year). I'm just of the belief that it should be the choice of a woman to wear one...yes, sometimes it's not a choice because of the family/background/etc., but all the government did here was take away the choice.
 

pixburgher66

I like your beard.
26,285
521
113
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Location
Pittsburgh
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just feel that this law solves nothing and puts women in a bind if they're in a home with extremist beliefs, or takes away the choice to wear or not wear one. I'm out!
 

Comeds

Unreliable Narrator.
24,205
13,074
1,033
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Location
Baltimore
Hoopla Cash
$ 754.60
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If a country passes a law stating that you cannot do tomorrow what you have done it the past, it obviously restricting or taking away freedoms.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I realize that. But two things: now the government won't allow it so women have to choose between defying government, or their husbands. But more relevant is that the Muslim population in France is probably a more conservative branch of the religion as is (like you stated, the number which still wear veils even has greatly decreased), so honor killings may not be as typical. I understand the significance of those. Horrendous doesn't even begin to describe them (wrote numerous papers on the subject last year). I'm just of the belief that it should be the choice of a woman to wear one...yes, sometimes it's not a choice because of the family/background/etc., but all the government did here was take away the choice.

You guys make me feel like a fascist...

Good, case solved. Now they can fit into society. Read that article I posted, wearing these things isn't even that concrete in their religion, it is more of a cultural thing from where they came from. So if France doesn't want this, then so be it. They can return to where that cultural habit, rule, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it was born.
 

KillerVee

Active Member
17,900
16
38
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Location
Austin, TX
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If a country passes a law stating that you cannot do tomorrow what you have done it the past, it obviously restricting or taking away freedoms.

But that's not always a bad thing, Comeds.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If a country passes a law stating that you cannot do tomorrow what you have done it the past, it obviously restricting or taking away freedoms.

Under this premise, forbidding people from killing someone is restriciting ones freedom(s).

People should always be identifiable out in public. Plain and simple.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Lloyd Braun suggested name tags (thanks Elaine Benes), but it cost Mayor Dinkens the election...

Not like that... This isn't the Sims. Your face should always be exposed.
 

SLY

Mr. Knowitall
52,101
703
113
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Connecticut
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I agree 100%. I was just having fun with labels and stereotypes that some like to throw around.

That's the world we live in. Everything is labeled nowadays.
 
Top