OT: Don't They Have More Important Things To Worry About

[deep9er]

Not sure how it is "their land" though since they took it away from other inhabitants and basically exterminated them.

??

who is 'their' in your post above, the State or Hawaiians?

 

[tomikcon1971]

I strongly suspect all cultures have dark periods or less than flattering events.

David Scheimann

 

[Bemular]

there are also Eskimos and native Hawaiians.

the State of Hawaii recently returned lands to 'Hawaiians'. granted, there is no single Hawaiian 'tribe' that everyone adheres to? not all 'Hawaiians' are on the same page so there are splinter groups.

these are very VALUABLE lands, running in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but point is.......it CAN be done. IMO land is ok, wouldn't want to give 'handouts' such as food stamps vouchers, etc.

Land - Good. But handouts such as food stamps - Bad. Interesting point of view.

 

[Rathman44]

My grandma was 100% Native American and I can tell you that my whole family is highly offended by the term Redskins - just like Asian Americans wouldn't like Yellowskins or African Americans wouldn't like Blackskins. It's even more insulting to have a team in our nation's capital named after this derogatory term.

It really is the only mascot that has ever offended us because of the double standard behind it. We thought it was silly when Stanford did away with the Indians as their mascot and replaced it with a color. Indians is a historical term that was never used in a derogatory fashion; just like Patriots, 49ers, Cowboys, etc. If anything, the term Indians is insulting to white explorers' intellect.

I applaud anyone who has the common sense to realize the lunacy in accepting the term "Redskins". It's refreshing to see politicians stand up for the little guy for once, no matter how inappropriate others may think it is to do so. The term is a reminder that people still don't have respect for what Native Americans have been put through in this country. I love the USA and obviously never had to go through many of the awful things that my ancestors were able to survive, but I do have a unique perspective in understanding our culture and painful history. Non-casino based reservations still struggle to this day because of the dark relationship between the US government and Native Americans. So please, before you rush to judgements, put yourselves in our shoes and imagine if you would find it frustrating to have a term like Blackskins, Yellowskins, Whiteskins, Brownskins, Redskins, etc paraded around this country in total ignorance of the dark past it invokes.

 

[MHSL82]

Land - Good. But handouts such as food stamps - Bad. Interesting point of view.

 

[Flyingiguana]

up here they don't pay taxes, dont think they care what we call them

 

[NinerSickness]

Of course stupid ass ESPN is getting preachy about this issue. They don't pose the question: "should the Redskins change their name?" They outright say the Redskins should change it, but they won't. This is despite the fact that their own poll has 78% of the voters saying they shouldn't change the name.

 

[Rathman44]

Of course stupid ass ESPN is getting preachy about this issue. They don't pose the question: "should the Redskins change their name?" They outright say the Redskins should change it, but they won't. This is despite the fact that their own poll has 78% of the voters saying they shouldn't change the name.

the fact that a majority of voters say the name shouldn't be changed is just further support that it should be changed. People clearly don't understand how important it is to many Native Americans, like myself, to not have such a derogatory term representing our nation's capital. If it was a term that insulted a group with a louder voice, like the Blackskins, it would never last and you wouldn't be making this argument. Please show the same respect towards Native Americans.

 

[TobyTyler]

??

who is 'their' in your post above, the State or Hawaiians?

The native Hawaiians.

 

[TobyTyler]

My grandma was 100% Native American and I can tell you that my whole family is highly offended by the term Redskins - just like Asian Americans wouldn't like Yellowskins or African Americans wouldn't like Blackskins. It's even more insulting to have a team in our nation's capital named after this derogatory term.

It really is the only mascot that has ever offended us because of the double standard behind it. We thought it was silly when Stanford did away with the Indians as their mascot and replaced it with a color. Indians is a historical term that was never used in a derogatory fashion; just like Patriots, 49ers, Cowboys, etc. If anything, the term Indians is insulting to white explorers' intellect.

I applaud anyone who has the common sense to realize the lunacy in accepting the term "Redskins". It's refreshing to see politicians stand up for the little guy for once, no matter how inappropriate others may think it is to do so. The term is a reminder that people still don't have respect for what Native Americans have been put through in this country. I love the USA and obviously never had to go through many of the awful things that my ancestors were able to survive, but I do have a unique perspective in understanding our culture and painful history. Non-casino based reservations still struggle to this day because of the dark relationship between the US government and Native Americans. So please, before you rush to judgements, put yourselves in our shoes and imagine if you would find it frustrating to have a term like Blackskins, Yellowskins, Whiteskins, Brownskins, Redskins, etc paraded around this country in total ignorance of the dark past it invokes.

Anyone who denies that the term "redskin", when used to describe Indians, was meant as a derogatory term is either lying or is not very smart.

 

[deep9er]

Land - Good. But handouts such as food stamps - Bad. Interesting point of view.

nothing new, it is like teaching people to fish, not giving them fish.

people with land have a chance to do things themselves, and this isn't only farming.

 

[deep9er]

Not sure how it is "their land" though since they took it away from other inhabitants and basically exterminated them.

ok, you're referring to Native Hawaiians.......didn't get this response because Native Hawaiians were the first peoples living here. the islands of Hawaii are 'their' lands. Native Hawaiians didn't take it away from other inhabitants.

i was referring to Native Hawaiians, like Native Americans and Native Eskimos. it appears you're referring to the 'loose' usage of "Hawaiian", ie being from Hawaii? yes, similar to many places around the world, the white people came in and 'took it away'.

 

[MHSL82]

ok, you're referring to Native Hawaiians.......didn't get this response because Native Hawaiians were the first peoples living here. the islands of Hawaii are 'their' lands. Native Hawaiians didn't take it away from other inhabitants.

i was referring to Native Hawaiians, like Native Americans and Native Eskimos. it appears you're referring to the 'loose' usage of "Hawaiian", ie being from Hawaii? yes, similar to many places around the world, the white people came in and 'took it away'.

I think he's assuming that since Native Americans had several tribes, some of whom who took over others' lands, Native Hawaiians did the same and can't complain that America took over them. He further asserts that the tribes exterminated other tribes.

 

[TobyTyler]

ok, you're referring to Native Hawaiians.......didn't get this response because Native Hawaiians were the first peoples living here. the islands of Hawaii are 'their' lands. Native Hawaiians didn't take it away from other inhabitants.
i was referring to Native Hawaiians, like Native Americans and Native Eskimos. it appears you're referring to the 'loose' usage of "Hawaiian", ie being from Hawaii? yes, similar to many places around the world, the white people came in and 'took it away'.

Have you forgotten about the cliffs on the Pali Highway?

""The Nuʻuanu Pali was the site of the Battle of Nuʻuanu, one of the bloodiest battles in Hawaiian history, in which Kamehameha I conquered the island of Oʻahu, bringing it under his rule. In 1795 Kamehameha I sailed from his home island of Hawaiʻi with an army of 10,000 warriors, including a handful of non-Hawaiian foreigners. After conquering the islands of Maui and Molokaʻi, he moved on to Oʻahu. The pivotal battle for the island occurred in Nuʻuanu Valley, where the defenders of Oʻahu, led by Kalanikūpule, were driven back up into the valley where they were trapped above the cliff. More than 400 of Kalanikūpule's soldiers were driven off the edge of the cliff to their deaths 1,000 feet below""

 

[TobyTyler]

I think he's assuming that since Native Americans had several tribes, some of whom who took over others' lands, Native Hawaiians did the same and can't complain that America took over them. He further asserts that the tribes exterminated other tribes.

As did Kamehameha when he invaded the island of Oahu.

 

[NinerSickness]

the fact that a majority of voters say the name shouldn't be changed is just further support that it should be changed.

:confused2:

It sounds like you're upset that the media & government pay more attention to latino / latina & black people more than they pay attention to Natives. I agree that's not right. However, Native Americans have been given considerations that no other group in the country have been given. And if an NFL franchise were called the blackskins or the brownskins for 80+ years, I still wouldn't support changing the name because those names wouldn't be derogatory. I've never heard someone called "'blackskin" or "brownskin" in my life. People use much more colourful terms when they're trying to be insulting.

I think this country bends over backwards (and ruins a lot of things) in the name of not offending anyone. Daniel Snyder didn't come up with the name of the franchise. The only people who really care about the team name are Redskin fans; the rest of us don't spend any significant time even paying attention to the franchise. You're not wrong for being offended, but that doesn't mean the vast majority who want to keep the name shouldn't be able to because you find it offensive. It's impossible to please everyone.

 

[deep9er]

Have you forgotten about the cliffs on the Pali Highway?

""The Nuʻuanu Pali was the site of the Battle of Nuʻuanu, one of the bloodiest battles in Hawaiian history, in which Kamehameha I conquered the island of Oʻahu, bringing it under his rule. In 1795 Kamehameha I sailed from his home island of Hawaiʻi with an army of 10,000 warriors, including a handful of non-Hawaiian foreigners. After conquering the islands of Maui and Molokaʻi, he moved on to Oʻahu. The pivotal battle for the island occurred in Nuʻuanu Valley, where the defenders of Oʻahu, led by Kalanikūpule, were driven back up into the valley where they were trapped above the cliff. More than 400 of Kalanikūpule's soldiers were driven off the edge of the cliff to their deaths 1,000 feet below""

ohhhhhh, that was what you're referring to. here is why i didn't get that......

although Hawaiians from one island conquered Hawaiians from another, islands aren't as 'unique' as say....Sioux versus Dakotas. it is more like Sioux fighting neighboring Sioux, and becoming united in a larger Sioux Nation. so the original habitants of Hawaii were basically one Native Hawaiian group.

when the State gave back land to the Hawaiians, the lands originally belonged to ONE Hawaiian group. granted TODAY, it is one Hawaiian Nation in theory only.

 

[TobyTyler]

ohhhhhh, that was what you're referring to. here is why i didn't get that......

although Hawaiians from one island conquered Hawaiians from another, islands aren't as 'unique' as say....Sioux versus Dakotas. it is more like Sioux fighting neighboring Sioux, and becoming united in a larger Sioux Nation. so the original habitants of Hawaii were basically one Native Hawaiian group.

when the State gave back land to the Hawaiians, the lands originally belonged to ONE Hawaiian group. granted TODAY, it is one Hawaiian Nation in theory only.

I vehemently disagree. Polynesians came to Hawaii from all over the Pacific. Some were as varying and different as Koreans are to Chinese or Japanese.

 

[deep9er]

I vehemently disagree. Polynesians came to Hawaii from all over the Pacific. Some were as varying and different as Koreans are to Chinese or Japanese.

yes, you are right about Hawaiians originating from other south pacific islands, but that isn't the topic at hand.

the topic was Redskins and Native Americans, not Native Americans are originally from Asia?

 

[TobyTyler]

yes, you are right about Hawaiians originating from other south pacific islands, but that isn't the topic at hand.

the topic was Redskins and Native Americans, not Native Americans are originally from Asia?[/QUOTE]

You lost me. The point, I thought, was that Native Americans were just as guilty of stealing land they wanted away from weaker peoples as the Europeans were. And consequently, they have no gripe.