OT: Don't They Have More Important Things To Worry About

[Gatorchip]

You're misunderstanding some economic principle here. Tickets & merchandise are already at the peak level of market efficiency for the Redskins. They wouldn't raise their prices if the team name changes. In fact, they'd probably lower the price on merchandise because its market value would plummet. Snyder would absolutely lose millions upon millions of dimes. If he wants to spend millions of dollars on some worthy cause, I think he'd be much better off sending it to people who make mosquito nets for 3rd world countries.



I don't agree that it's a racial slur. I believe context matters. Most people agree with me on this one so far.

Most will agree that Snyder is a jerk. He will still make his money, and even if that rich SOB doesn't, who gives a shit that he breaks even for one year?


Redskin is undeniably a slang term for a race that some Native Americans take offense to. How is that not a racial slur? Please be specific.

 

[Gatorchip]

It was costly for the US military to integrate women into the armed forces. Right thing to do?

 

[NinerSickness]

It was costly for the US military to integrate women into the armed forces. Right thing to do?

Hell no! There are all kinds of problems with women in the military besides the enormous cost. You don't want a sexually charged military with cohabitation; that's why they had the don't ask don't tell policy. I just heard an extremely disturbing interview talking about the prevalence of sexual assaults in the military. Here's a CNN story saying there were 26,000 unwanted sexual encounters in one year. And that's just what was reported.

Survey indicates troubling trend in military sexual assaults - CNN.com

Then there's the issue of women getting PREGNANT while fighting the enemy. This can happen from r*pe or if it's consentual. Women are also inferiour at war. They're not as strong, durable, can't carry as much. Women in the military is 100% political correctness gone amuck. The people who allowed it didn't care about having the most effiective mililtary in case of a conflict (it was already extremely expensive without the change), they were pushing a political ideology and sacrificed money and ability to defend the nation.

You're also comparing part of the Federal budget to a private citizen spending his money.

 

[erckm510]

You're misunderstanding some economic principle here. Tickets & merchandise are already at the peak level of market efficiency for the Redskins. They wouldn't raise their prices if the team name changes. In fact, they'd probably lower the price on merchandise because its market value would plummet. Snyder would absolutely lose millions upon millions of dimes. If he wants to spend millions of dollars on some worthy cause, I think he'd be much better off sending it to people who make mosquito nets for 3rd world countries.



I don't agree that it's a racial slur. I believe context matters. Most people agree with me on this one so far.

Please explain the context where it is ok for a white guy to use the N word. Or any other racial slut. This should be fun.

 

[erckm510]

Hell no! There are all kinds of problems with women in the military besides the enormous cost. You don't want a sexually charged military with cohabitation; that's why they had the don't ask don't tell policy. I just heard an extremely disturbing interview talking about the prevalence of sexual assaults in the military. Here's a CNN story saying there were 26,000 unwanted sexual encounters in one year. And that's just what was reported.

Survey indicates troubling trend in military sexual assaults - CNN.com

Then there's the issue of women getting PREGNANT while fighting the enemy. This can happen from r*pe or if it's consentual. Women are also inferiour at war. They're not as strong, durable, can't carry as much. Women in the military is 100% political correctness gone amuck. The people who allowed it didn't care about having the most effiective mililtary in case of a conflict (it was already extremely expensive without the change), they were pushing a political ideology and sacrificed money and ability to defend the nation.

You're also comparing part of the Federal budget to a private citizen spending his money.

Maybe you should tell this to the women in the Armed Forces currently serving and tell them to go back in the kitchen and raise your babies.

 

[Bemular]

Hell no! There are all kinds of problems with women in the military besides the enormous cost. You don't want a sexually charged military with cohabitation; that's why they had the don't ask don't tell policy. I just heard an extremely disturbing interview talking about the prevalence of sexual assaults in the military. Here's a CNN story saying there were 26,000 unwanted sexual encounters in one year. And that's just what was reported.

Survey indicates troubling trend in military sexual assaults - CNN.com

Then there's the issue of women getting PREGNANT while fighting the enemy. This can happen from r*pe or if it's consentual. Women are also inferiour at war. They're not as strong, durable, can't carry as much. Women in the military is 100% political correctness gone amuck. The people who allowed it didn't care about having the most effiective mililtary in case of a conflict (it was already extremely expensive without the change), they were pushing a political ideology and sacrificed money and ability to defend the nation.

You're also comparing part of the Federal budget to a private citizen spending his money.

Our military hasn't fought a real enemy since the '45 so I think having women serve alongside their male corporate security guard counterparts is just fine.

 

[NinerSickness]

[/B]

Please explain the context where it is ok for a white guy to use the N word. Or any other racial slut. This should be fun.

You completely missed my point. I don't believe REDSKIN is a racial slur. Some people take offense to it, I believe context determines whether or not it has negative connotations. Whereas everyone I've ever heard agrees the N word is always a racial slur in just about any context (as long as it ends in "er" rather than "a").

 

[NinerSickness]

Maybe you should tell this to the women in the Armed Forces currently serving and tell them to go back in the kitchen and raise your babies.

I'd be happy to tell any woman in the armed services I don't support women in the military. Whether they have babies (which 95% of women do) or cook has nothing to do with it. But I'll bet you enjoyed the cliche' retort.

 

[erckm510]

You completely missed my point. I don't believe REDSKIN is a racial slur. Some people take offense to it, I believe context determines whether or not it has negative connotations. Whereas everyone I've ever heard agrees the N word is always a racial slur in just about any context (as long as it ends in "er" rather than "a").

Just because YOU don't believe it's a racial slur doesn't mean that is isn't one. You sound just like the politician who said "we had wetbacks" to the media and didn't think it was a racial slur because they used to say it all the time on their farm.

Redskin is a racial slur. It started as one but now people just associate it with the Football team. A team name that was made in the 30's where racism was accepted. It wouldn't be acceptable as a team name if it was made in the last 20 years. Hence the reason most High schools who had Redskins as the team mascot changed it to something else.

 

[erckm510]

I'd be happy to tell any woman in the armed services I don't support women in the military. Whether they have babies (which 95% of women do) or cook has nothing to do with it. But I'll bet you enjoyed the cliche' retort.

Your whole rant about women was a cliche.

 

[NinerSickness]

Your whole rant about women was a cliche.

A rant can't be a cliche'. A cliche' saying something obvious or ubiquitous & doesn't take much original thought. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. A penny saved is a penny earned. Women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. And so on.

I brought up a bunch of real-life issues that affect the military. You made the leap to hyperbole in the form of a cliche'. It's not a good way to make a point.

 

[erckm510]

A rant can't be a cliche'. A cliche' saying something obvious or ubiquitous & doesn't take much original thought. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. A penny saved is a penny earned. Women should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. And so on.

I brought up a bunch of real-life issues that affect the military. You made the leap to hyperbole in the form of a cliche'. It's not a good way to make a point.

A rant can be cliche and there were certain elements in your rant that are very cliche. Like how women are inferior at war. There is clear evidence that some women are better then some men at war. Sexual assaults is another cliche. There are many instances of sexual assaults between men. It usually doesn't get reported because the man wouldn't want to admit it.

Stick to your arguments instead of defining what words mean. We know what the words mean.

 

[NinerSickness]

A rant can be cliche and there were certain elements in your rant that are very cliche. Like how women are inferior at war. There is clear evidence that some women are better then some men at war. Sexual assaults is another cliche. There are many instances of sexual assaults between men. It usually doesn't get reported because the man wouldn't want to admit it.

Stick to your arguments instead of defining what words mean. We know what the words mean.

The point is you deflected from the facts by describing a caricature of downtrodden women. It's a weak point. It's not even a point at all.

And "some" women being being better than "some" men at war is a god point? Yes, I'll take a healthy woman over a paraplegic man in war. But armies are generally made up of men from around 18-30 or so, almost all of whom are vastly superiour physical specimen to almost all women. Or do you want to go back to the ridiculous theory that a woman will play in the NFL one day?

And sexual assaults is a cliche'? What the hell is that supposed to even mean? Are you saying those sexuall assault statistics aren't true? Women are easy tagets for r*pe in the military. They're 100 times easier to r*pe than a man. It would be extremely difficult for one guy to r*pe another guy; the assailant would need help. But you're making my point about why they had the don't ask don't tell policy, and politicians completely ingnored all the senior officers in the military who said it would be stupid to repeal it.

 

[erckm510]

The point is you deflected from the facts by describing a caricature of downtrodden women. It's a weak point. It's not even a point at all.

And "some" women being being better than "some" men at war is a god point? Yes, I'll take a healthy woman over a paraplegic man in war. But armies are generally made up of men from around 18-30 or so, almost all of whom are vastly superiour physical specimen to almost all women. Or do you want to go back to the ridiculous theory that a woman will play in the NFL one day?

And sexual assaults is a cliche'? What the hell is that supposed to even mean? Are you saying those sexuall assault statistics aren't true? Women are easy tagets for r*pe in the military. They're 100 times easier to r*pe than a man. It would be extremely difficult for one guy to r*pe another guy; the assailant would need help. But you're making my point about why they had the don't ask don't tell policy, and politicians completely ingnored all the senior officers in the military who said it would be stupid to repeal it.

Sigh your arguments don't make sense. Why would I say some women are better then some men at war if I don't mean women who went thru the same basic training as men. Do I really need to be clear on that? We are talking about military women are we not? Since women can't do the same NFL training as a man that point is clearly moot.

What does cliche mean in regards to sexual assault? Cmon you just told all of us what cliche is. Using sexual assault is a trite idea. You say it's 100 times easier? Making up statistics to prove a point is good. And yes I'm saying some of the sexual assault statistics aren't true. As you just proved they can be made up. It would be extremely difficult for one guy to r*pe another guy without help? How do you prove this statement? I can disprove it quite easily.

The Pentagon estimates that last year 13,900 of the 1.2 million men on active duty endured sexual assault while 12,100 of the 203,000 women in uniform experienced the same crime — or 38 men per day versus 33 women per day. Yet the Defense Department also acknowledges “male survivors report at much lower rates than female survivors.”

Male r*pe survivors tackle military assault in tough-guy culture - U.S. News

 

[MHSL82]

Unless a woman can bench the same or more as the men, do the same number of push-ups, and run the same distance in the same or faster time, saying women are inferior to men at combat is fair. Exceptions don't negate that, as there's hardly anything that is absolute. Having said that, there are some strong enough women and some skilled non-combat roles that some could be best at.

Women are given more time to complete the mile in training and most use more than most men. There are some who exceed their expectation (all who pass by definition meet or exceed the requirements). The same can be said for push-ups and the like.

 

[MHSL82]

Or do you want to go back to the ridiculous theory that a woman will play in the NFL one day?

Epic is sensitive to women's issues, maybe he is a woman and that's his "epic void?"

Just kidding, my name sounds like an STD and people could say jokes about my fandom of our former QB. It wouldn't be true like joking that Epic would only be sensitive to women's issues if he were a women is not true. I'm sure someone will tell me that gender equality is an all people's issue, not a woman's issue. I'll concede that, but these things are in the same category. Sexism, perhaps. With some support generally speaking in both sides.

Epic is a fine poster, I enjoy his insight and contributions on some matters, and it wouldn't matter what his gender is as long as he's a Niners fan. Yes, I believe he is a man, just a joke. (Though women can be active posters, there is an assumption based upon numbers and gender history like our military aargument).

 

[-AC-]

You completely missed my point. I don't believe REDSKIN is a racial slur. Some people take offense to it, I believe context determines whether or not it has negative connotations. Whereas everyone I've ever heard agrees the N word is always a racial slur in just about any context (as long as it ends in "er" rather than "a").

I think you need to take a trip down to Oklahoma and test your belief that "Redskin" is not a racial slur...

If you make it back in one peice, I bet you'll have a whole new perspective on the term "Redskin"...

 

[NinerSickness]

erck: women who go through basic training are still inferiour physically to the men who go through basic training. And it's not even close. They can't cary as much gear; they can't carry it as far; they can get pregnant in the middle of a tour...

And if you think it's just as easy to r*pe a man as it is to r*pe a woman you're fooling yourself. When it comes to this kind of stuff, men and women are not equal.

 

[Rathman44]

erck: women who go through basic training are still inferiour physically to the men who go through basic training. And it's not even close. They can't cary as much gear; they can't carry it as far; they can get pregnant in the middle of a tour...

And if you think it's just as easy to r*pe a man as it is to r*pe a woman you're fooling yourself. When it comes to this kind of stuff, men and women are not equal.

This topic may be as futile to discuss with you as the racial slur topic, but I must say that you are looking at this in a very generalized sense, not to mention sexist. I got a masters in biomedical engineering and took some exercise science classes that addressed this topic of athletic performance between genders. In terms of absolute strength, power, or speed, research has consistently found that males tend to be stronger than females on average. In interpreting these facts a few things must be kept in mind. These are statistical comparisons of two overlapping populations. The strongest man is certainly stronger than the strongest woman and perhaps, on average, men are stronger than women. The problem with presenting the data based only on these normative statistics is that group means ignore the large numbers of women who are stronger/faster/more powerful than many men. Studies have found that there is a very large overlap. A study on endurance showed that the top 40th percentile of women outperformed the average male. The point being that it is important to recognize the amount of variation within-genders as well as between-genders. The average male may perform better than the average female, but there is a large portion of females who outperform the average male. A great example is Paula Broadwell, who ranked in the top 5% of her West Point class in physical fitness and this was based on an equal point system - no gender bias scoring system needed (she was #1 in the class based on gender scoring). She kicked the butts of 95% of our top military recruits. Try telling her she can't cut it.

These sort of results are what we found in the studies we covered and given this info I think it's ludicrous to completely discount women fully serving in the military. But hey, it's just science and statistics...

And your pregnancy and r*pe arguments are even more absurd. If you can't see the solutions to those on your own then there's no point even addressing it with you.

 

[NinerSickness]

This is another example of letting the exception validate the rule. It's typical of people who aren't interested in the actual result of something but rather the intention of it. Just because Paula Broadwell is athletic enought to be in the military doesn't mean it's a good idea to let women serve in the military. At first, the military had different standards for men & women, and then they just lowered athletic standards for eveyone. If women could hang with men (in general, not the exceptions), there wouldn't be seperate sports leagues for women. Not to mention the problems with cost and cohabitation.

From a practical standpoint women in the military is a terrible idea. Is that fair? I really don't care. The point of the military isn't to be fair; it's to defend the nation from forgeign & domestic threats.