OT: Could the Pats be on the decline?

[erckm510]

1. Guaranteed money for NFL contracts is critical. And yes, he practically doubled his guaranteed money. I don't understand the confusion.

2. If he is still playing at a high level he will be able to command top dollar. The Pats wouldn't want to see him spend his days on a beach with Giselle so they would pay him what he's due. If he's not playing at a high level then they are still on the hook for all the guaranteed money and less cap room.

1. Because he turned his previous base salary/bonuses into signing bonus. That's not doubling it. The Pats weren't going to cut Brady. The new contract in essence turned his old contract into a signing bonus making it guaranteed and lowing his base amount while spreading his cap figure to 2017.

2. This is obvious. But the point is he already took a team friendly contract that will take him into age 40. So they'll keep paying him but Brady obviously doesn't want to be the huge salary cap burden at the expense of his team.

 

[JDM]

Do I think Mallett is going to be Brady? Probably not. Do I think we'll win the division with him with the rest of the team we are building? Yes.

 

[erckm510]

Nobody is arguing that the deal isn't team friendly if it were to be played out like that. I just think it's unreasonable to believe that his contract will be one of the very few franchise QB contracts to not be restructured or leveraged later on. If it doesn't then you should be worried because it means Brady got injured and he's just collecting his guaranteed money. The contract gives Brady more injury insurance money, while the team gets short term cap relief (which they didn't seem to use all that great). The contract will be readdressed in a couple years if he's still playing well - like many franchise QB contracts. The Pats are taking a gamble that he doesn't get injured or drop off in performance in his late 30s. Brady reduces his gamble against injury by increasing his guaranteed money. I see the positives on both sides, but by no means is it a slam dunk awesome deal for the Pats like you made it out to be.

Anyways, I don't think we are going to agree on this so I'll just leave it at that. Good luck to you guys this season. Hopefully we see you in the Super Bowl - I'd love to beat the Pats!

Sorry man but anytime you can pay a top 5 QB under a top 5 QB price then yes it's a slam dunk awesome deal. Rivers will count more against the cap then Brady for the next 3 seasons. Romo and Stafford will count more then Brady over the next couple seasons.

 

[JDM]

Also you're assuming any of that will be available. It is not in the patriots or Brady's best interest to admit money made him leave the table.

 

[Rathman44]

1. Because he turned his previous base salary/bonuses into signing bonus. That's not doubling it. The Pats weren't going to cut Brady. The new contract in essence turned his old contract into a signing bonus making it guaranteed and lowing his base amount while spreading his cap figure to 2017.

2. This is obvious. But the point is he already took a team friendly contract that will take him into age 40. So they'll keep paying him but Brady obviously doesn't want to be the huge salary cap burden at the expense of his team.

1. If Brady gets injured he gets more money now. Yes he practically doubled his guaranteed money.

2. Clearly he wants a good team. But he, his agent, and his union will also want him to be paid a reasonable amount if he is still playing like a top QB.

 

[Rathman44]

Sorry man but anytime you can pay a top 5 QB under a top 5 QB price then yes it's a slam dunk awesome deal. Rivers will count more against the cap then Brady for the next 3 seasons. Romo and Stafford will count more then Brady over the next couple seasons.

I think you're trying to simplify a complicated contract issue where there is a lot more in play beyond just the per year averages that this extension gives. Also, comparing his contract to some of the worst contracts out there doesn't necessarily help your point. Nobody is saying this is an awful deal.

But seriously, I'm gonna let this one go. Can't get dragged into this repetitive debate any further. If he's playing at a high level in 3 years and on the same contract you can come back and tell me "I told you so" and I will bow to you, the master of the universe.

 

[erckm510]

I think you're trying to simplify a complicated contract issue where there is a lot more in play beyond just the per year averages that this extension gives. Also, comparing his contract to some of the worst contracts out there doesn't necessarily help your point. Nobody is saying this is an awful deal.

But seriously, I'm gonna let this one go. Can't get dragged into this repetitive debate any further. If he's playing at a high level in 3 years and on the same contract you can come back and tell me "I told you so" and I will bow to you, the master of the universe.

There isn't a lot more in play. Base Salary, Signing bonus, other bonuses per year. That's it. You can see how the contracts will play out as they are written right now. What else are you looking at? If you don't wanna do the research then don't bother commenting. He's obviously going to play the next 3 seasons as his contract stands right now. For some reason you think it's common for players to re-negotiate their contracts 1 or 2 seasons in.

And yes nobody said it was an awful deal. You said it wasn't a slam dunk awesome deal and yes it is. Because compared to the other contracts for QB's he's playing for a pretty good discount. How else do you form a comparison? Magic opinions?

And he doesn't have to play at a high level for 3 years. Contracts are based on risk/reward for both the player and the team. The team assumed more risk for the health of their star QB to build a better team around him. The player assumed risk getting paid a lower base salary. You're the one making it complicated. But by all means if you think it's repetitive then leave.

 

[erckm510]

1. If Brady gets injured he gets more money now. Yes he practically doubled his guaranteed money.

2. Clearly he wants a good team. But he, his agent, and his union will also want him to be paid a reasonable amount if he is still playing like a top QB.

If for some reason he gets a injury where he's forced to retire THIS season. Otherwise no he didn't.

 

[NinerSickness]

lol again with the rebuilding thing...They have been doing just that the last few years.

To an extent to their detriment. Like trading Richard Seymour. That move may have cost them a SB trophy. It helped the long run, but hurt that season considerably.

They have one of the youngest teams in the league

Young doesn't necessarily mean good; nor does it mean promising for the future. The Pats had the 29th rated pass defense last year, and I don't think Adrian Wilson fixes that. And they team isn't young in the one position that is keeping them in the playoff hunt: QB. If the Pats had a promising young QB running the show, this point would be moot. But I don't think the team has given Brady nearly enough talent to win a SB. I think they have significantly less talent than last year, and I think that last year they had less talent than the year prior. Brady's getting older while the team gets worse. That's a situation I would blow up some time within the next 12 months unless Jamie Collins & Aaron Dobson both prove to be home runs.

Speaking of Collins, is the team planning on using him as a pass rusher or do they foresee him taking Hightower's jorb?

 

[Hangman]

Pats without Welker, Gronk and Hernandez will become more like a team they had in the mid 2000's. Find the open man not force it to any one. The only difference was they had a pretty solid defense. Now it is suspect. They do have a few good running backs and they do have a solid o-line so they can run the clock down if needed. With Talib and Denard they have an OK secondary. They did just lose Chung to free agency so the SS is a weak spot until proven otherwise.

It might be that after this shit they might return to what made them good in the first place. Managing the ball, run a lot, find the open guy, and play solid defense.

 

[Rathman44]

There isn't a lot more in play. Base Salary, Signing bonus, other bonuses per year. That's it. You can see how the contracts will play out as they are written right now. What else are you looking at? If you don't wanna do the research then don't bother commenting. He's obviously going to play the next 3 seasons as his contract stands right now. For some reason you think it's common for players to re-negotiate their contracts 1 or 2 seasons in.

And yes nobody said it was an awful deal. You said it wasn't a slam dunk awesome deal and yes it is. Because compared to the other contracts for QB's he's playing for a pretty good discount. How else do you form a comparison? Magic opinions?

And he doesn't have to play at a high level for 3 years. Contracts are based on risk/reward for both the player and the team. The team assumed more risk for the health of their star QB to build a better team around him. The player assumed risk getting paid a lower base salary. You're the one making it complicated. But by all means if you think it's repetitive then leave.

Haha...wow, don't be so sensitive man. I could be off but I sense a little anger with your comments. We're talking about football. It's a child's game just like any other sport. Just chill man.

You can believe what you want but many big contracts don't play out as they are exactly written - they are often altered a few years down the line. I never said many are altered a year in - those are your words not mine. Heck, even this new contract was built upon changing the terms of his old contract. This new contract guarantees him $57 million (regardless of injury according to Schefter). He gets a cool 30M just for signing and actually makes 3M more in the first 2 years of this deal than what he would have originally. Hey wait, does that mean his contract was restructured? Why yes it does! Beyond that the remainder of his contract is guaranteed up to the 57M - regardless of injury according to the terms. You are guaranteeing that this contract that was partly an addendum to his old contract won't be reworked, which I find interesting. I think if he's 39 years old and playing as a top 10 QB (unlikely) that he will command more money with the threat of retirement looming. You disagree and that's fine. But let's just say that old age catches up and he's not playing so well, do you really want him anyways? Wouldn't you want to move on? You'd have to trade him (unlikely given the comments from Kraft) or play him or bench him and he's going to be banking some big dough and cap room during his 38, 39, 40 year old seasons. It's not a risk I'd necessarily hate if I'm the Pats, but I do see the potential harm it can do to your cap down the line if things pan out like father time usually does. This and the threat of a renegotiation - that's why it's not the slam dunk that many have declared it to be.

So, yes, I have looked at the details, I've done the research, but I know that there is a lot more that goes into play with these situations other than bonuses and salary. All you have to do is look around the league. Anyways, I promise I'm done this time - I just couldn't let the personal attacks go...immature of me I guess. Time to move on to Niners talk anyways. I'm way more interested in how we're going to sign Aldon and Kaep.

 

[Jikkle]

Pats will be in the mix for the SB because the AFC is weak and looks to remain weak for a couple of more years.

The only two teams other than the Pats that are powerhouses are the Broncos and Ravens and even calling the Ravens a powerhouse is debatable since they've become the AFC version of the NY Giants in that they'll play like Super Bowl champions one week and play like a team picking the top 5 in next year's draft the next but still one of the last teams you want to see in the playoffs.

Their last two playoff runs have been nearly exactly the same. Get the bye, somehow get soft tossed an easy opponent in the first game , and play an ugly game in the AFC Championship. 2012 they played ugly but lucked out and got bye to get to the SB and 2013 they played ugly but didn't get so lucky. And it looks like history might repeat itself again in 2014.

The thing I think with the Pats is it seems like for the past few years that Brady and the offense are good for one stinker in the playoffs and their defense hasn't been good enough to pick up the offense when it goes south. In the their SB winning years they had better defenses and the type of defense that would pick up the slack if the offense was struggling.

 

[maniax]

I think the Pats offense actually suffers now especially the passing offense, and they become ordinary.

You lose Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, and Brandon Lloyd all in one season? Who's Brady going to pass to?
Gronk may not be back in time. It's gonna hurt them. You can plug and play a few guys but you cannot plug and play in all your receivers all at once. Plus Brady is getting old.

But they will still probably win the AFC East. But that's about it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I think the Pats offense actually suffers now especially the passing offense, and they become ordinary.

You lose Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, and Brandon Lloyd all in one season? Who's Brady going to pass to?
Gronk may not be back in time. It's gonna hurt them. You can plug and play a few guys but you cannot plug and play in all your receivers all at once. Plus Brady is getting old.

But they will still probably win the AFC East. But that's about it.

Yeah, that's the catch. Weakest division in football BY FAR outside of the Pats. Even with the Pats they're in the mix.

 

[NinerSickness]

Yeah, that's the catch. Weakest division in football BY FAR outside of the Pats. Even with the Pats they're in the mix.

I don't even think the Pats are a lock to win the division any more. Brady will keep 'em competitive, but they don't have much of anything outside of him & a good OL.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't even think the Pats are a lock to win the division any more. Brady will keep 'em competitive, but they don't have much of anything outside of him & a good OL.

Which leaves them with slightly more than any other team in the division.