Series Thread: Orioles vs the Rangers

[Cedrique]

Orioles are a bit ahead of schedule. They're really good, but they overachieved their pythag by 7 wins (94-68) and were 30-16 in one-run games. They've got some promise in that rotation, but outside of Bradish/Rodriguez it's rather meh. I like Means a lot, but he's coming off TJS and has barely pitched the last two years. He's a bit of an unknown going into 2024. There's no reason they shouldn't be active in free agency and at the winter meetings, they've got plenty of prospects/young major leaguers that can be used to land established pitchers. Bullpen looks good but they're likely without Bautista next year. Orioles had one of the better lineups in 2023 and they have a ton of positional depth (six players with 2+ WAR and eleven players with 1+). They only had four players with negative WAR and none of them had more than 80 plate appearances.

That's what I'm thinking too. They did the hard part of getting core franchise guys at key positions in Rutschman, Henderson and probably Westburg. You can always add some bats and starting pitching through free agency if you want it. I think the window is just starting to open for this team.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

if astros and rangers meet in the league final is it a derby? Is there rivalry between the fans?

A massive one. Don’t know that it’s at the level of Yankees / Red Sox or Cardinals / Cubs but the fan bases pretty much despise each other.

Which is fine with me. Fuck the Asstros.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Orioles are a bit ahead of schedule. They're really good, but they overachieved their pythag by 7 wins (94-68) and were 30-16 in one-run games. They've got some promise in that rotation, but outside of Bradish/Rodriguez it's rather meh. I like Means a lot, but he's coming off TJS and has barely pitched the last two years. He's a bit of an unknown going into 2024. There's no reason they shouldn't be active in free agency and at the winter meetings, they've got plenty of prospects/young major leaguers that can be used to land established pitchers. Bullpen looks good but they're likely without Bautista next year. Orioles had one of the better lineups in 2023 and they have a ton of positional depth (six players with 2+ WAR and eleven players with 1+). They only had four players with negative WAR and none of them had more than 80 plate appearances.

I would gladly have the Guardians trade them Bieber for a good young outfielder.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You guys have a great roster of talent but need to be seasoned. Getting to the playoffs and the young guys on your team getting to experience it will benefit them in the years to come but right now y'all are facing a very talented team of veterans managed by a x3 WS champion manager. Hard to overcome.

I think its just more about the pitching. Orioles starting pitching just is not very good. Rodriguez MIGHT get there. Bradish looks better than expected but I am not sure his stuff is ideal for the playoffs.

They can definitely make a deal for a starter in the offseason if they wanted to- or sign one- though I am not sure I would even trust signing a guy like Blake Snell who always seems to over perform in contract years.

I would gladly have the Guardians trade you Bieber for a good young outfielder.

 

[navamind]

I think its just more about the pitching. Orioles starting pitching just is not very good. Rodriguez MIGHT get there. Bradish looks better than expected but I am not sure his stuff is ideal for the playoffs.

They can definitely make a deal for a starter in the offseason if they wanted to- or sign one- though I am not sure I would even trust signing a guy like Blake Snell who always seems to over perform in contract years.

I would gladly have the Guardians trade you Bieber for a good young outfielder.

I'd already say Rodriguez might be getting there with just how well he pitched after he got recalled from AAA

Snell's injury history worries me and most of his other seasons outside of 18/23 aren't that impressive, plus his walk rate is pretty high. He's probably looking at at least a 5 year deal

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'd already say Rodriguez might be getting there with just how well he pitched after he got recalled from AAA

Snell's injury history worries me and most of his other seasons outside of 18/23 aren't that impressive, plus his walk rate is pretty high. He's probably looking at at least a 5 year deal

I would give them Bieber + something pretty substantial for Cowser or Hjestead

 

[WiggyRuss]

Glasnow will almost assuredly be traded this offseason too- though it would be hard for me to imagine the Rays trading him inside the division if there was another option.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

I think its just more about the pitching. Orioles starting pitching just is not very good. Rodriguez MIGHT get there. Bradish looks better than expected but I am not sure his stuff is ideal for the playoffs.

They can definitely make a deal for a starter in the offseason if they wanted to- or sign one- though I am not sure I would even trust signing a guy like Blake Snell who always seems to over perform in contract years.

I would gladly have the Guardians trade you Bieber for a good young outfielder.

See, you had Bradish, Cole and Rodriguez as the top three pitchers in ERA during the second half. Bradish had a rough April but was dominant after. Rodriguez was also dominant after being sent down following his initial struggles. You have John Means next year slotting in there. Dean Kremer is fine as a #5 starter. So that leaves maybe one starting spot- Kyle Gibson’s- to fill next season. Tyler Wells was the opposite of Grayson, great the first half but struggled with “dead arm” after the All-Star break. Does Wells fill this spot, who was putting up #2-#3 starter numbers, or does he go to the bullpen?

Perhaps this was just conjecture, but I sure remember a lot of discussion/rumors on an Orioles board last off-season of a rumored Cedric Mullins for Pablo Lopez swap with the Marlins. Do they do a similar deal this off-season, and if so, is that a deal with the Guardians who do have an excess of starting pitching? I do NOT think it’s going to be done through free agency with Blake Snell.

There are also a large number of Orioles fans right now calling for Brandon Hyde which I just do not understand. Hindsight is 20/20, where we should have gone after another reliever but had no idea that Bautista would go down. Do I agree with Kremer starting last night with his family and country being on his mind? I would have started Gibson with his playoff experience instead, but that same playoff experience was causing Hyde to keep him in reserve as a reliever because Gibson has experience doing that as well. Rodriguez and Kremer were getting a lot of 0-2 counts early, but just couldn’t make the last pitch.

I think the Orioles will get a lot better just by an off-season of development and “seasoning.” You have to remember this is a very young core, that is going to get better. They don’t need to go out and spend massive amounts of money in free agency. But, there are still moves to do. You have to find another starter, ideally a #1 or #2 type, which someone like Bieber fits. I think you have to find another reliever or two to help fill the gap left by Bautista, who can pitch in high leverage situations. And if you make those trades, how are you backfilling the major league pieces?

 

[WiggyRuss]

See, you had Bradish, Cole and Rodriguez as the top three pitchers in ERA during the second half. Bradish had a rough April but was dominant after. Rodriguez was also dominant after being sent down following his initial struggles. You have John Means next year slotting in there. Dean Kremer is fine as a #5 starter. So that leaves maybe one starting spot- Kyle Gibson’s- to fill next season. Tyler Wells was the opposite of Grayson, great the first half but struggled with “dead arm” after the All-Star break. Does Wells fill this spot, who was putting up #2-#3 starter numbers, or does he go to the bullpen?

Perhaps this was just conjecture, but I sure remember a lot of discussion/rumors on an Orioles board last off-season of a rumored Cedric Mullins for Pablo Lopez swap with the Marlins. Do they do a similar deal this off-season, and if so, is that a deal with the Guardians who do have an excess of starting pitching? I do NOT think it’s going to be done through free agency with Blake Snell.

There are also a large number of Orioles fans right now calling for Brandon Hyde which I just do not understand. Hindsight is 20/20, where we should have gone after another reliever but had no idea that Bautista would go down. Do I agree with Kremer starting last night with his family and country being on his mind? I would have started Gibson with his playoff experience instead, but that same playoff experience was causing Hyde to keep him in reserve as a reliever because Gibson has experience doing that as well. Rodriguez and Kremer were getting a lot of 0-2 counts early, but just couldn’t make the last pitch.

I think the Orioles will get a lot better just by an off-season of development and “seasoning.” You have to remember this is a very young core, that is going to get better. They don’t need to go out and spend massive amounts of money in free agency. But, there are still moves to do. You have to find another starter, ideally a #1 or #2 type, which someone like Bieber fits. I think you have to find another reliever or two to help fill the gap left by Bautista, who can pitch in high leverage situations. And if you make those trades, how are you backfilling the major league pieces?

honestly this Orioles team reminds me very much of some of the old Indians teams that had a ton of good young position players - and pretty good pitching- just not the type of playoff pitching to win a World Series (though they got close a few times).

Those Indians teams had Lofton, Baerga, Belle, Manny, Thome, Vizquel, Sandy Alomar---- one of the best collection of young position players I can ever remember- and then added/lost guys but always replaced with guys like Robert Alomar, DAvid Justice , Matt Williams, etc.....

they never won the World Series because A. the umpires in 1995 called anything within a football field of the strike zone a strike, and B. they had guys like Hershisher, Dennis Martinez, Charlie Nagy- but either they werent true aces or not in their primes.

Orioles should not make that mistake.

allthough- i gotta say- that was a long long run of very fun baseball which the Orioles seem to have in front of them.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Glasnow, Bieber, Woodruff, maybe Cease, will be available via trade and all would be a big get for the Orioles

best free agent starters are: Gray, Nola, Stroman, Snell, Yamamoto from Japan, --then it kinda falls off. Montgomery is pretty good. Giolito is okay.

really- the guys that offer a potential significant upgrade in the rotation for Baltimore are Glasnow, Bieber, Woodruff, Cease, Gray, Snell, and maybe Yamamoto - whether through trade or free agency. I am not huge on paying Stroman or Nola big money- and wary of Snell too. Gray at his age has his risks as well.

 

[Drasci]

A massive one. Don’t know that it’s at the level of Yankees / Red Sox or Cardinals / Cubs but the fan bases pretty much despise each other.

Which is fine with me. Fuck the Asstros.

Wow, i like that in the sport. But i am italian and I live in Italy so I don't know these aspects in depth (if we talk about baseball)

I knew about the Red Sox Yankees rivalry, not the Cubs with the Cardinals.

Thank you for this answer, it's just the kind of thing I want to learn in this forum


ps: but logically, shouldn't there also be a rivalry between Cubs-White Sox and Yankees-Mets?

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

Wow, i like that in the sport. But i am italian and I live in Italy so I don't know these aspects in depth (if we talk about baseball)

I knew about the Red Sox Yankees rivalry, not the Cubs with the Cardinals.

Thank you for this answer, it's just the kind of thing I want to learn in this forum


ps: but logically, shouldn't there also be a rivalry between Cubs-White Sox and Yankees-Mets?

I’m sure Cubs/Cardinal fans can explain the history of their rivalry far better than an interloper from Texas can. I defer to them on that topic but my time in the Air Force around fans of those teams made it clear to me that it is a legitimate one.

As far as the intracity rivalries (include the Dodgers & Angels as well), those teams are in different leagues and only play each other one series a season so it’s a much different level of “dislike” as opposed to teams that play each other 10-12 times a year. It’s more of a provincial thing with them. Cubs fans do not root for the White Sox and vice versa. I don’t know that it a level of “hate” as much as how they grew up.