Optimus Prime

[clyde_carbon]

Perhaps. But I've never seen a QB get put through the ringer the way Smith was early in his career, either. Harbaugh's gentle touch might be necessary given Smith's history. Obviously, Harbaugh knows Smith isn't a pro-bowler, isn't elite. He says these things to show support for Smith. But if Kap forces the issue, it will become a competition. That's on him.

True, but it's time to get over it and stop using that as an excuse.

 

[MHSL82]

Perhaps. But I've never seen a QB get put through the ringer the way Smith was early in his career, either. Harbaugh's gentle touch might be necessary given Smith's history. Obviously, Harbaugh knows Smith isn't a pro-bowler, isn't elite. He says these things to show support for Smith. But if Kap forces the issue, it will become a competition. That's on him.

+1 Billion. I was about to type all this... I'm glad I spent the time to read further.

Unless they want to answer more questions about Alex, this was the right thing to say. If they were so sure of Kaep, for this year, they should have not signed Alex. Why build up his confidence if Kaep needs no more time or Alex is clearly not close to trying something bigger? My guess it's somewhere in the middle. One more year, we'll see. They didn't baby Alex until Singletary and we all know that was bullshit - from both sides (Alex haters, supporters). It wasn't conducive until last year and it hasn't failed this year, at least yet.

If we are going to go with him, in order for him to succeed, we need all the first team reps and all the support from the coaching staff (GM is different) and no distractions. It's not like Alex won the SB, he'll get replaced if he doesn't deliver. All the contract and this stuff means is that Kaep isn't close enough or Alex bad enough to say Alex will fail and thus Kaep should get at least half the first team reps just in case. But it also doesn't mean Alex is set because he's guaranteed so little beyond this year. We're rolling with Alex this year and Alex has all the incentive in the world to work hard. He's shown in by all accounts to work hard. If he fails, he will be replaced, babied or not. Babying him doesn't hurt and it may help. In person, they should be pushing competition. The media? Why? What business is it ours if the right thing is being done on the practice field/game? The media has all the rights to be skeptical of Smith, with or without quotes by the coaches.

 

[Epic Voidfield]

+1

It's time to see him transform and roll out.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Btw, how bizarre does Kap's left hand look in this picture?

 

[NinerSickness]

Btw, how bizarre does Kap's left hand look in this picture?

That's his left arm? I thought he had a jumbo copy of War and Peace attached to his shoulder.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

That's his left arm? I thought he had a jumbo copy of War and Peace attached to his shoulder.

Haha. Nice. Made me laugh.

 

[Dodub]

So it doesn't seem like they brought him in to fight for #3 with Tolzien?

Right now they are battling for #2 so it appears that this is the job that he was possibly brought in the take.

I do agree with Crims that he probably wasn't brought in to be the starter since they didn't really push for him that far but I just think it speaks volumes about CK's development that not only is he not even being considered in the conversation as the starter week 1 but he has to battle with a vet who has a history with the coach for the number 2 job.

 

[MHSL82]

Right now they are battling for #2 so it appears that this is the job that he was possibly brought in the take.

I do agree with Crims that he probably wasn't brought in to be the starter since they didn't really push for him that far but I just think it speaks volumes about CK's development that not only is he not even being considered in the conversation as the starter week 1 but he has to battle with a vet who has a history with the coach for the number 2 job.

I'd echo your post except I think 'volumes' is a bit extreme, though it does say something, but why not something about Tolzien? He's the one being pushed out (whereas Kaep could be pushed down). Plus, I think it says that Kaep short-term is not ready for starting*, not that he was a reach or a waste - and not that he isn't first backup material. I think bringing in JJ speaks less about Kaep's future than what bringing in Kaep spoke for Alex's future (at the time of both respective signings).

* I know this is what you meant by 'development'.

 

[BINGO]

I'd echo your post except I think 'volumes' is a bit extreme, though it does say something, but why not something about Tolzien? He's the one being pushed out (whereas Kaep could be pushed down). Plus, I think it says that Kaep short-term is not ready for starting*, not that he was a reach or a waste - and not that he isn't first backup material. I think bringing in JJ speaks less about Kaep's future than what bringing in Kaep spoke for Alex's future (at the time of both respective signings).

* I know this is what you meant by 'development'.

Well if this is true, then HE WAS A REACHED. You don't select a player in the 2nd round, if you don't see him as a potential "impact player" within year 2. Not only did we select him in the 2nd round, we traded up for him. If they knew all this then why trade up for him? When you traded up, why not target someone like Brooks Reed or Kyle Rudolph at that spot (again 2nd rounders are reserved for borderline immediate, or future impact players). The only time you select a QB high in the draft and don't play him by year two is ONLY IF such luxury to do so. What I mean by that, there must be an elite QB at the helm already leading your organization and you as a GM simply have the luxury to wait on this 2nd round QB to develop (see Brock Osweilder with Peyton Manning. See Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre).

The only "non-starter" in that round is Share Vareen. Every team make excessive use of their 2nd round pick from the 2011 Draft Class. With the exception of Leshoure who would have shared plenty of snaps with Jahvid Best had he not get injured. Clemson's Jarvins Jenkins was playing like a beast and would have started had he not gone on IR:

National Football League: NFL Draft History

Teams that decides to trade up to acquire a player in the 2nd round is not thinking, "oh yeah...we're trading up so that we can eventually start him in 2019. By then we will have the steal of the draft". No! It doesn't work like that. If that were the case then (needing to take that long to play him) he didn't deserved to be selected in the 2nd round and could have been drafted in the 4th or 5th round.

Thus, to summarize what I'm saying, if what you are saying is true then it was a reach (drafting him that high)!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Well if this is true, then HE WAS A REACHED. You don't select a player in the 2nd round, if you don't see him as a potential "impact player" within year 2. Not only did we select him in the 2nd round, we traded up for him. If they knew all this then why trade up for him? When you traded up, why not target someone like Brooks Reed or Kyle Rudolph at that spot (again 2nd rounders are reserved for borderline immediate, or future impact players). The only time you select a QB high in the draft and don't play him by year two is ONLY IF such luxury to do so. What I mean by that, there must be an elite QB at the helm already leading your organization and you as a GM simply have the luxury to wait on this 2nd round QB to develop (see Brock Osweilder with Peyton Manning. See Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre).

The only "non-starter" in that round is Share Vareen. Every team make excessive use of their 2nd round pick from the 2011 Draft Class. With the exception of Leshoure who would have shared plenty of snaps with Jahvid Best had he not get injured. Clemson's Jarvins Jenkins was playing like a beast and would have started had he not gone on IR:

National Football League: NFL Draft History

Teams that decides to trade up to acquire a player in the 2nd round is not thinking, "oh yeah...we're trading up so that we can eventually start him in 2019. By then we will have the steal of the draft". No! It doesn't work like that. If that were the case then (needing to take that long to play him) he didn't deserved to be selected in the 2nd round and could have been drafted in the 4th or 5th round.

Thus, to summarize what I'm saying, if what you are saying is true then it was a reach (drafting him that high)!

QB is a different animal, and we're in a fairly unique situation. We don't have an elite player at the position, but we've got a solid player and got within a play or two of the super bowl. You don't want to stir the pot too much in that case. Especially when your second-round QB came from a gimmicky system in a less-than-spectacular conference and he didn't get a full offseason his first year.

I don't think it's an indictment of Kaepernick that he's not "competing" for the starting spot at this point, and if he pans out in year three or four, the fact that he didn't start year two will be completely meaningless.

 

[Bemular]

There is no question Colin was a reach; that happens when there is a run on QB's (or any position for that matter). There have been maybe 3 or 4 other drafts since the 60's where 6 QB's were taken by the 36th pick. ('83 immediately comes to mind).

2011 presented a classic shit storm of teams needing QB's from an otherwise poor QB class (at least thus far). Colin is right on schedule for where he should have been drafted - not what he was.

 

[CalamityX11]

I thought at that time, Prime was viewed as a good prospect at QB. With Dalton being taken by the Bengals, I understand what the niners did considering Oakland was looking for a QB too.

I think Prime is the only guy we traded up for in the Baalke/Harbs draft era IIRC.... at least definitely the highest.

 

[MHSL82]

Well if this is true, then HE WAS A REACHED. You don't select a player in the 2nd round, if you don't see him as a potential "impact player" within year 2. Not only did we select him in the 2nd round, we traded up for him. If they knew all this then why trade up for him? When you traded up, why not target someone like Brooks Reed or Kyle Rudolph at that spot (again 2nd rounders are reserved for borderline immediate, or future impact players). The only time you select a QB high in the draft and don't play him by year two is ONLY IF such luxury to do so. What I mean by that, there must be an elite QB at the helm already leading your organization and you as a GM simply have the luxury to wait on this 2nd round QB to develop (see Brock Osweilder with Peyton Manning. See Aaron Rodgers with Brett Favre).

The only "non-starter" in that round is Share Vareen. Every team make excessive use of their 2nd round pick from the 2011 Draft Class. With the exception of Leshoure who would have shared plenty of snaps with Jahvid Best had he not get injured. Clemson's Jarvins Jenkins was playing like a beast and would have started had he not gone on IR:

National Football League: NFL Draft History

Teams that decides to trade up to acquire a player in the 2nd round is not thinking, "oh yeah...we're trading up so that we can eventually start him in 2019. By then we will have the steal of the draft". No! It doesn't work like that. If that were the case then (needing to take that long to play him) he didn't deserved to be selected in the 2nd round and could have been drafted in the 4th or 5th round.

Thus, to summarize what I'm saying, if what you are saying is true then it was a reach (drafting him that high)!

I think they had high hopes for Kaep and low hopes for Smith. I think Smith did better than they thought and I don't know how Kaep is doing. It's possible that for what they thought was going to happen that selecting him there was reasonable. Now that the case *might* be different, I don't expect them to force him in based upon his draft position... especially when the number one overall pick is the other guy. But I do expect Alex to have a higher standard because of where he was selected, but that obviously isn't as strong given tempered expectations and the contract he signed.

 

[Jikkle]

I thought at that time, Prime was viewed as a good prospect at QB. With Dalton being taken by the Bengals, I understand what the niners did considering Oakland was looking for a QB too.

I think Prime is the only guy we traded up for in the Baalke/Harbs draft era IIRC.... at least definitely the highest.

Kilgore and Looney were both trade ups I believe but to this date with Baalke and Harbaugh we've never really had a major trade up.

 

[CalamityX11]

Looney... true story.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Right now they are battling for #2 so it appears that this is the job that he was possibly brought in the take.

I do agree with Crims that he probably wasn't brought in to be the starter since they didn't really push for him that far but I just think it speaks volumes about CK's development that not only is he not even being considered in the conversation as the starter week 1 but he has to battle with a vet who has a history with the coach for the number 2 job.

I don't so it speaks his development at all, actually. At least not on the surface.

 

[clyde_carbon]

There is no question Colin was a reach; that happens when there is a run on QB's (or any position for that matter). There have been maybe 3 or 4 other drafts since the 60's where 6 QB's were taken by the 36th pick. ('83 immediately comes to mind).

2011 presented a classic shit storm of teams needing QB's from an otherwise poor QB class (at least thus far). Colin is right on schedule for where he should have been drafted - not what he was.

2011 was actully considered a pretty deep QB class.

 

[Bemular]

2011 was actully considered a pretty deep QB class.

You're right, it was considered deep by many, perhaps most pundits. There were a few dissenters and I sided with them. While there were a lot of QB's coming out, I just didn't see a lot of NFL talent coming out.

I whiffed on Newton - as many did. But there were some who thought Locker and Gabbert were going to be 1st year impact players and some even threw Ponder and Mallett in with them as well.

After that group there were still QB's available and a fair amount of noise being made about them. So, you're right the draft was deep with QB's but not very deep with immediate impact talent - at least not so far.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

I think Kap has a lot of work to do on his mechanics....

 

[clyde_carbon]

You're right, it was considered deep by many, perhaps most pundits. There were a few dissenters and I sided with them. While there were a lot of QB's coming out, I just didn't see a lot of NFL talent coming out.

I whiffed on Newton - as many did. But there were some who thought Locker and Gabbert were going to be 1st year impact players and some even threw Ponder and Mallett in with them as well.

After that group there were still QB's available and a fair amount of noise being made about them. So, you're right the draft was deep with QB's but not very deep with immediate impact talent - at least not so far.

Who's the idiot that thought Mallett was gonna make an impact his first year in NE?

Cam Newton and Andy Dalton already made an impact. Locker, Kap, and Mallett are being brought along slowly. Christian Ponder did decent in terms of rookie QBs, and Blaine Gabbert imploded.

You also have T.J. Yates who made an impact for the Texans.

Also guys like Scott Tolzein and Greg McElroy can be solid backups in this league for a long, long time.

It wasn't a shallow QB class by any stretch of the imagination.