Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Having lived through the Ballard years, I feel ya brother.

I think we've reached the point where the past decade of Leaf futility have surpassed the Ballard years. The Leafs still made the playoffs 13 out of 18 years under Ballard...

 

[BGDave]

I think we've reached the point where the past decade of Leaf futility have surpassed the Ballard years. The Leafs still made the playoffs 13 out of 18 years under Ballard...

Fair enough, but until Randy Carlyle comes out wearing a brown paper bag as the "new" coach of the team, I think the Leafs still have some way to go to catch the nonsense that was Ballard

 

[forty_three]

Sigh

You know it's coming, but you just can't look away.

The last three years of "refusing to be patient" got the Jackets Carter (who became Johnson), Bobrovsky and Hartnell.

I will welcome Wayne Simmonds.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

You know it's coming, but you just can't look away.

The last three years of "refusing to be patient" got the Jackets Carter (who became Johnson), Bobrovsky and Hartnell.

I will welcome Wayne Simmonds.

I mean, not to defend the Flyers or anything but I would only probably want one of those guys (excluding Carter since he was flipped) on my team.

 

[forty_three]

I mean, not to defend the Flyers or anything but I would only probably want one of those guys (excluding Carter since he was flipped) on my team.

It's more about the "Patience" part of his comment.

This guy is a party guy, him and his buddy. We need to get rid of them even though we just committed to both long term. - Those two are reunited and lead a team to the cup. Twice in the next three seasons.

This guy is a young goalie, and a little weird. We need to cut losses and move him. - That guy wins the Vezina the next year. And regularly regarded as one of the top 5 - 8 keepers in the league.

This guy is popular, but we goofed and signed him too long. We need to move him for another of his type but on a shorter term. - That guy has a rebirth and is the team's third highest scorer and locker room leader now. The guy you got for him is sometimes a healthy scratch.

Patience. What do it mean?

 

[forty_three]

Jackets lines for tonight against the Isles. Boll in, Dano out.

Anyone know where I can get some morphine? It's the only thing that will kill the pain at this point.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Patience. What do it mean?

You forgot JVR.

 

[Cobiemonster]

It's more about the "Patience" part of his comment.

This guy is a party guy, him and his buddy. We need to get rid of them even though we just committed to both long term. - Those two are reunited and lead a team to the cup. Twice in the next three seasons.

This guy is a young goalie, and a little weird. We need to cut losses and move him. - That guy wins the Vezina the next year. And regularly regarded as one of the top 5 - 8 keepers in the league.

This guy is popular, but we goofed and signed him too long. We need to move him for another of his type but on a shorter term. - That guy has a rebirth and is the team's third highest scorer and locker room leader now. The guy you got for him is sometimes a healthy scratch.

Patience. What do it mean?

Well, the Mike Richards and Jeff Carter trades, as much as I love those guys, it was a pretty good deal for both teams - they were able to win two cups in three seasons with the Kings and the Flyers got two studs in Jake Voracek and Wayne Simmonds, so it didn't end up so bad

But trading Bob was real bad because they thought Bryz was the answer, which is even worse

Scott Hartnell's a guy who can produce points but the problem is that he's not fast enough for the system the Flyers are in and he takes too many penalties - the PK blows as it is this season, imagine with him in the lineup, the amount of penalties they would have needed to kill? He's a good player and I'm glad he's having success in Columbus, but I get the move - doesn't mean it's a great move but I get it

Patience is a problem with the Flyers but stupidity is also a problem and you see that with deals like Vinny and A-Mac - just bad, bad contracts that cripple the team - with Hexy there, hopefully Eddie boy will step back and let Hexy do the work

 

[forty_three]

Well, the Mike Richards and Jeff Carter trades, as much as I love those guys, it was a pretty good deal for both teams - they were able to win two cups in three seasons with the Kings and the Flyers got two studs in Jake Voracek and Wayne Simmonds, so it didn't end up so bad

But trading Bob was real bad because they thought Bryz was the answer, which is even worse

Scott Hartnell's a guy who can produce points but the problem is that he's not fast enough for the system the Flyers are in and he takes too many penalties - the PK blows as it is this season, imagine with him in the lineup, the amount of penalties they would have needed to kill? He's a good player and I'm glad he's having success in Columbus, but I get the move - doesn't mean it's a great move but I get it

Patience is a problem with the Flyers but stupidity is also a problem and you see that with deals like Vinny and A-Mac - just bad, bad contracts that cripple the team - with Hexy there, hopefully Eddie boy will step back and let Hexy do the work

I ask as delicately as I can... would you rather have Simmonds/Voracek or Cup/Cup? I know that there is no guarantee that if they stayed that the Flyers would win, but they went to the Final in 2010 with those two on the team (And JVR, by the way). And those two guys are the only players in league history to play on two teams that have come back from an 0-3 deficit in a series.

Spin it any way you want... It was NOT good for *both* teams.

As for Hartsy, I get that his role in Philly was not ideal for him. But that illustrates the impulsiveness that makes Snider dangerous on a number of levels. Hartnell was in a role that didn't match his game, but they went ahead and gave him a huge deal anyway. Then, when he doesn't live up to the contract (which was ideal for someone far better than him, but way beyond anything he deserved), they cut him loose and wound up putting him in a place where he has had a career year.

The Flyers were the closest team to me growing up, and if asked long ago I would have probably identified as a Flyer fan. And they have ALWAYS had this problem. From their abuse of Tim Kerr and Brian Propp, to the "Go away Recchi, come back Recchi" mess, to their absolute mishandling of every aspect of Lindros.

I mean, in the Lindros deal Quebec didn't ask for Forsberg, and the goalie they wanted was Roussel. The Flyers added Foppa and decided to hold onto Roussel and sent Hextall instead. Any hockey person who does that should have been shot.

Snider has never stepped back and let the GM handle it. And there are trainwrecks all over that team history. I would say that the league should force the Flyers to keep the same Roster for 3 years, but that would rob the rest of us of the spectacle.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I ask as delicately as I can... would you rather have Simmonds/Voracek or Cup/Cup? I know that there is no guarantee that if they stayed that the Flyers would win, but they went to the Final in 2010 with those two on the team (And JVR, by the way). And those two guys are the only players in league history to play on two teams that have come back from an 0-3 deficit in a series.

Spin it any way you want... It was NOT good for *both* teams.

As for Hartsy, I get that his role in Philly was not ideal for him. But that illustrates the impulsiveness that makes Snider dangerous on a number of levels. Hartnell was in a role that didn't match his game, but they went ahead and gave him a huge deal anyway. Then, when he doesn't live up to the contract (which was ideal for someone far better than him, but way beyond anything he deserved), they cut him loose and wound up putting him in a place where he has had a career year.

The Flyers were the closest team to me growing up, and if asked long ago I would have probably identified as a Flyer fan. And they have ALWAYS had this problem. From their abuse of Tim Kerr and Brian Propp, to the "Go away Recchi, come back Recchi" mess, to their absolute mishandling of every aspect of Lindros.

I mean, in the Lindros deal Quebec didn't ask for Forsberg, and the goalie they wanted was Roussel. The Flyers added Foppa and decided to hold onto Roussel and sent Hextall instead. Any hockey person who does that should have been shot.

Snider has never stepped back and let the GM handle it. And there are trainwrecks all over that team history. I would say that the league should force the Flyers to keep the same Roster for 3 years, but that would rob the rest of us of the spectacle.

I'd rather have a Cup/Cup, but the thing is, the Flyers didn't have a Drew Doughty and they didn't have a Jonathan Quick and that makes a big difference - I can make arguments for how Richie and Carts were difference makers but at the same time, it does take a "team" to win a Stanley Cup - I don't think they would have won with the Flyers because Ed Snider's an idiot and Homer would have been gutting the team even more trying to win a cup - I think it was good for both teams because it helped the Flyers get younger, cheaper pieces that are really good now - the Flyers drop off was when Chris Pronger got hurt and once he got hurt, it didn't matter who they had, if those two were still there after his injury, they still wouldn't have won - they put the Kings over the top because those were "the pieces" the Kings needed but it wouldn't have helped the Flyers because they had so many other holes

As for Scott Hartnell, he might be having a good season but this is not a career season for him - his career season was 37 goals in 2011-12, when G and Jags had magic together

Actually, the Flyers have kept pretty much the same roster or at least the core, for four seasons now - G, Jake, Couts, Simmer, Matt Read and Brayden Schenn have all been there since 11-12 and that's their "core" - I think they've been patient with those guys - the problem is that they've signed idiotic contracts to guys like Vinny, A-Mac and to an extent, Mark Streit and of course the JVR for Luke Schenn deal was pretty bad too - at least they fixed their mistake of trading Bob by getting Steve Mason back

If the Flyers would quit going into the well in FA and also trading for guys then thinking they need to sign them to $30 million extensions, they would be fine - Ed Snider needs to tie his hands to the chair and let Hexy do his job - they have some great young d-men in the fold like Travis Sanheim, Samuel Morin, Shayne Gostisbehere, Robert Hagg and Jesper Petterson and if they can ever get out of the jaws of life with those contracts like A-Mac and others, the defense can look really strong

I also blame the media for giving Ed Snider this platform - I don't get why they keep going to him and giving him attention, and then everyone complains that he should shut his trap

I know part of this sounds like I'm trying to defend the Flyers and I'm not but everything I've pointed out is just reality - there's aspects of the team where they're doing the right thing, but ultimately the problems lie with Ed Snider because he puts pressure on everyone involved and it makes him look like an idiot - at least they've cut part of this shit out by letting Homer market the team instead of playing virtual GM so that they could get a real GM like Hexy into the fold

 

[GenJac]

LOL at the Ducks just like last year. They won the President's Cup and went poof in the second round. This is regular season hockey. Playoff hockey is a whole 'nuter ballgame and they don't have that much experience in that kind of competition. The Ducks won't go all the way.

 

[esls79]

LOL at the Ducks just like last year. They won the President's Cup and went poof in the second round. This is regular season hockey. Playoff hockey is a whole 'nuter ballgame and they don't have that much experience in that kind of competition. The Ducks won't go all the way.

Pretty sure the Bruins won it last year and went poof in the second round in seven games but I agree that more often than not the Presidents winnner doesn't go all the way.

 

[dash]

With the Sabres win last night, they are only two points ahead of Arizona in the McEichel Sweepstakes. It's gong to be a heck of a race in this final week.

 

[Cobiemonster]

With the Sabres win last night, they are only two points ahead of Arizona in the McEichel Sweepstakes. It's gong to be a heck of a race in this final week.

Tim Murray just had a temper tantrum after the game

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'd rather have a Cup/Cup, but the thing is, the Flyers didn't have a Drew Doughty and they didn't have a Jonathan Quick and that makes a big difference -

At the time they traded Carter and Richards, they had Pronger and Bobrov still.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I think we've reached the point where the past decade of Leaf futility have surpassed the Ballard years. The Leafs still made the playoffs 13 out of 18 years under Ballard...

The playoff system was different back then. The top 4 teams in each division made the playoffs.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

The playoff system was different back then. The top 4 teams in each division made the playoffs.

...

The divisions may have more teams, but that's still pretty much how teams get into the playoffs my friend.

Besides, the Leafs won at least one round in 7 of those 13 years. I get there were dark days and bad drafts and stupid personnel moves both on and off ice, but how the hell is that any different from today? The 1 playoff round in 11 years (and counting) trumps that in my books.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

...

The divisions may have more teams, but that's still pretty much how teams get into the playoffs my friend.

Besides, the Leafs won at least one round in 7 of those 13 years. I get there were dark days and bad drafts and stupid personnel moves both on and off ice, but how the hell is that any different from today? The 1 playoff round in 11 years (and counting) trumps that in my books.

I here ya, but there will only 5 teams in each division.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I here ya, but there will only 5 teams in each division.

They still won at least one playoff round 7 of those 18 years. In order for the current era to match that, they would have to win a playoff round in 6 of the next 7 years, and even then there would still be an 11 year gap where they didn't win one (and missed 8 straight!). I think the two are comparable but even that is starting to become less and less true. The Ballard era still produced guys named Sittler, Salming, Clark, Macdonald etc. This era, the best players that have been drafted using the Leafs' picks never even played a single game for the Leafs. They haven't had a competent goaltender since 2006. The only half-decent defenceman to come through town is only playing in his second season at the moment. They haven't had a first line centre since 2007. Should I go on?

I think modern Leaf futility trumps all past futility, stomps on its grave, takes a leak on it and gives it a 7 year contract for $35 million.