Omar's Top 15 Players by Position- CATCHER

[Omar 382]

What does a car accident have to do with anything?

Because his career was cut significantly short

 

[Omar 382]

Yes. Watching him does help you understand that. Sabermetrics can be valuable if used correctly, but they must always pass the reality test. Piazza was not a good defensive catcher. Not horrible by any stretch (other than his general inability to throw out base stealers), but he was not a great defender. He was worst in the league in terms of bases stolen off of him in the majority of his years behind the plate. Actually watching the game helps you understand that.

Watching the game is important. But like I explained to that cocksucking piece of shit @NinerSickness, the eye test and memory recall can be very spotty. Best to go with the hard data, while relying a little on intuition for a judgement call here and there (i.e. leaving Campanella off the list. I could go either way, and one is not necessarily right or wrong).

 

[Arizona_Sting]

No one cares about your shitty lists.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Joking, but I can't believe I'm saying this but overall... real solid list. Not much I would change.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yes. Watching him does help you understand that. Sabermetrics can be valuable if used correctly, but they must always pass the reality test. Piazza was not a good defensive catcher. Not horrible by any stretch (other than his general inability to throw out base stealers), but he was not a great defender. He was worst in the league in terms of bases stolen off of him in the majority of his years behind the plate. Actually watching the game helps you understand that.

You don't have to watch the game to know that guys stole a bunch of bags off Piazza

 

[navamind]

Ivan was a bit overrated as a hitter.

 

[Omar 382]

Ivan was a bit overrated as a hitter.

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[MilkSpiller22]

What i do find funny by the masses, the masses all say catcher is primarily a defensive position but yet have Johnny bench as the best ever...

Bench was a very good defender, but nowhere near the best defensively... So clearly the "experts" evaluate offense significantly...

Now this list, clearly values offense more than defense, and i think that is fine, but at the same time, i am surprised that some offensive catchers are not on Omar's list, Wheres Jorge Posada??

 

[Omar 382]

What i do find funny by the masses, the masses all say catcher is primarily a defensive position but yet have Johnny bench as the best ever...

Bench was a very good defender, but nowhere near the best defensively... So clearly the "experts" evaluate offense significantly...

Now this list, clearly values offense more than defense, and i think that is fine, but at the same time, i am surprised that some offensive catchers are not on Omar's list, Wheres Jorge Posada??

Do you understand, at least conceptually, the concept of linearly weighting things?

 

[broncosmitty]

Because his career was cut significantly short

Not really though.

He was on the backend heading into his age 36 season when he broke his neck. His last two years, age had clearly caught up to him.

Might have gone another two seasons, but I think the 58 season probably would've been his last tbh.

If anything it saved his rate stats a little. (That doesn't sound very good, but no other way to put it.)

 

[broncosmitty]

Campanellas MLB career did start later than most though. His career was real short in comparison to most greats.

 

[Omar 382]

Campanellas MLB career did start later than most though. His career was real short in comparison to most greats.

That's my point. He only had 8 seasons with 400 PA or more. I just don't think he played long enough to be in the top 15. Probably top 20, and definitely top 25 (IMO)

 

[broncosmitty]

That's my point. He only had 8 seasons with 400 PA or more. I just don't think he played long enough to be in the top 15. Probably top 20, and definitely top 25 (IMO)

I see your point on the length of career. I just don't think his car accident affected his career much. (Again, that sucks of me to say. He played pro ball for a decade before he played for Brooklyn. That cost him more imo.)

But I don't know if there are many players who affected their teams as positively as he did. Power, average and he's still the best in MLB history at throwing out runners, I think. (Worth looking up. I didn't.)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Do you understand, at least conceptually, the concept of linearly weighting things?

yes I do... But clearly your weights are heavier on offense than defense...

 

[Omar 382]

I see your point on the length of career. I just don't think his car accident affected his career much. (Again, that sucks of me to say. He played pro ball for a decade before he played for Brooklyn. That cost him more imo.)

But I don't know if there are many players who affected their teams as positively as he did. Power, average and he's still the best in MLB history at throwing out runners, I think. (Worth looking up. I didn't.)

Yeah, I think in '58(?) he threw out 57% of runners or something, which is still a record. I, too, am too lazy to look it up. We should start a lazy group- hey, can you start it?

 

[Omar 382]

yes I do... But clearly your weights are heavier on offense than defense...

They are. Do you disagree?

 

[broncosmitty]

Yeah, I think in '58(?) he threw out 57% of runners or something, which is still a record. I, too, am too lazy to look it up. We should start a lazy group- hey, can you start it?

I nominate the Milkman.

Since I haven't talked to him in forever.

 

[Omar 382]

I nominate the Milkman.

Since I haven't talked to him in forever.

I second it- Milkman, organize the meetings, but don't put too much effort into it, me and bronco won't show up anyway

 

[broncosmitty]

Okay, I looked it up.

For his career, Campy is the best of Alltime.

Career Leaders &amp Records for Caught Stealing % | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[broncosmitty]

Boileryard Clarke is 172nd.