OK ABC's

[SoCalWizFan]

For the umpteenth million time Shark, not saying we should get rid of him. As you and many others have said countless times, we don't have any better options in the short term.

I'm a glass half empty kinda guy wrt KC. He hasn't done enough to prove to me that he will guide us to the promised land. Myself, Dean, and a few others are continuously chastised for feeling that way. It's ok, I have thick Skin (no pun intended). But while I would expect most of the rest to be the glass half full types, it seems more are glass all full and running over in the floor. That's ok. Yalls opinion.

Nah - no problem with you - you have a reasonable & well explained take (even though we may agree to disagree on a few aspects). Hopefully - this is resolved soon. HTTR.

 

[Sleepy T]

The fact he had Megatron trumps anything and everything we have ever had. Plus he had Tate which is better than Garçon and DJ.

We collectively had one of the best pass catching groups in the NFL last year. You saying Cousins made Garçon, DJax, Reed, Vernon, and Crowder all better? I think it was more the other way around.

A nice collection of players who worked VERY well together.

 

[gkekoa]

We collectively had one of the best pass catching groups in the NFL last year. You saying Cousins made Garçon, DJax, Reed, Vernon, and Crowder all better? I think it was more the other way around.

I am saying we had a successful passing game. Garçon is a solid possession WR. He is nothing special. DJ was explosive but fragile and inconsistent. Reed is fragile. When healthy, he is just behind Gronk. JC is a good WR.

Megatron is the most talented WR in history. He is somewhere in the top three the game has ever had. Megatron and Tate make them more talented.

 

[skinsdad62]

what answer? Kc is not leaving this year.

figured you would dodge it

ok again in 2018 when carr and stafford could become free agents and are tagged , would you give up tha damn picks ? this is the 3rd time i have asked this

 

[ehb5]

It wasn't arbitrary at all. Read it in context.

I think players can improve all the time. I was using it as an example of the hypocrisy. Who has more to learn and this improve more...a guy with two years or a guy with 8?

Maybe I misunderstood you. I do think it's arbitrary to say at 8 years you can't improve but at 2 you definitely can though.

I don't have very big expectations for either guy improving much at this point. But it's possible.

 

[ehb5]

Sorry if I misunderstood you, it just seemed like you were saying experience doesn't matter when considering a QBs body of work. All I am getting at is I would take Stafford over KC because he has done it over a much longer period of time, and arguably with an inferior supporting cast (minus Megatron).

My point was just if they play exactly the same it doesn't matter who has more experience. Experience only matters when it leads to better performance. Which in this case they're pretty similar qbs imo.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Maybe I misunderstood you. I do think it's arbitrary to say at 8 years you can't improve but at 2 you definitely can though.

I don't have very big expectations for either guy improving much at this point. But it's possible.

It depends how you perceive things, but I truly do not believe that Cousins has to improve that much. It mainly comes down to him performing in the clutch. I see that as something that is correctable - others may not believe that to be the case. If he improves in that area & the team improves somewhat on defense & in the running game then this team could do very, very well (perhaps not to a major degree until 2018).

 

[ehb5]

Not sure about anyone else but my pt was that both of them could improve. I find it amusing that we appear to have several Redskins fans on this board going out of their way to try to prove that Stafford is much better (when he may be marginally better at best).

Why so much distrust of Cousins? Are some of you RG3 lovers? Are you folks that think that only Brady level QBs should command big money? Are you holding out (slim) hope that the Skins would do better waiting on that once-in-a-lifetime QB in the near future? Do you think (incorrectly) that a big contract for Cousins will put the Skins in cap hell? Just curious. I realize that he has flaws (laughable when folks claim that most of us view Cousins as the greatest or don't see his weaknesses), but these are flaws that are correctable - time will tell if he does correct them, but I say take the risk.

Agree with your first paragraph. They both could improve. And I do find Stafford and cousins to be similar. In fact before this past season when I was asked about Cousins and his level of play I said I think he comps to matt Stafford.

As for your second paragraph...I'm not sure if those questions are specifically for me or if they're meant to be more general. But I'll try to answer.

Do I distrust cousins? Depends on your definition. He's a flawed qb. He's not a bad qb. I trust him less than I would aaron rodgers and more than I would ryan Fitzpatrick.

Am I an rg3 lover? No this has been addressed excessively. I think it's a cop out accusation that some people on here like to use to excuse the fact not everybody agrees with them.

Do I think only Brady level qbs deserve big money? No but id be more stingy than most of you. I don't think flacco, alex smith, and Andy dalton deserve it. Stafford, Carr, and Cousins are right in the middle where it probably depends on the contract but is a tough call.

Am I holding out hope for a once in a liftime qb? I guess so? Shouldn't we all be hoping for that? And I think you should always be looking for that player. Doesn't mean you can't keep and roll with and even win with cousins though.

Do I think a big contract for Cousins will put us in cap hell? No. Like you said that would be incorrect. But I don't think that's where the convo about money should end. Just because it won't put us in cap hell doesn't mean it can't be a financially irresponsible decision.

Yes most people on here are pretty realistic about him but there are still some very homer comments made from time to time that overstate his abilities (sometimes significantly). Of course there are also some unfair criticisms made of him too.

 

[ehb5]

It depends how you perceive things, but I truly do not believe that Cousins has to improve that much. It mainly comes down to him performing in the clutch. I see that as something that is correctable - others may not believe that to be the case. If he improves in that area & the team improves somewhat on defense & in the running game then this team could do very, very well (perhaps not to a major degree until 2018).

I don't know if he needs to improve which is the hard part. He may be good enough to win us a SB he may not be. Tough to say.

As for his clutch play. I couldn't care less. He's made big plays in 4th quarters and also made back breaking plays. I don't judge his "clutch" play any differently than the rest of his play.

 

[Sleepy T]

I am saying we had a successful passing game. Garçon is a solid possession WR. He is nothing special. DJ was explosive but fragile and inconsistent. Reed is fragile. When healthy, he is just behind Gronk. JC is a good WR.

Megatron is the most talented WR in history. He is somewhere in the top three the game has ever had. Megatron and Tate make them more talented.

Calvin Johnson I'll give you. If anything he commanded double teams nearly every play which opened up the passing game for other receivers.

Tate is solid, but no better than any of those 3 WRs we had.

 

[deanpet21]

figured you would dodge it

ok again in 2018 when carr and stafford could become free agents and are tagged , would you give up tha damn picks ? this is the 3rd time i have asked this

im not talking about 2018 until it gets here.

 

[Sleepy T]

My point was just if they play exactly the same it doesn't matter who has more experience. Experience only matters when it leads to better performance. Which in this case they're pretty similar qbs imo.

Ok. Fair enough. And that may apply in '16.

But based on the complete body of work, do you still take KC for the next 3-5 years over Stafford? Let's forget about money and "who fits the system". Do you take Stafford and his system over KC and his system in the Burgundy and Gold?

 

[gkekoa]

Ok. Fair enough. And that may apply in '16.

But based on the complete body of work, do you still take KC for the next 3-5 years over Stafford? Let's forget about money and "who fits the system". Do you take Stafford and his system over KC and his system in the Burgundy and Gold?

I take KC and his system. The system is better and KC fits the system. We scored more than three points more than Detroit.

 

[ehb5]

Ok. Fair enough. And that may apply in '16.

But based on the complete body of work, do you still take KC for the next 3-5 years over Stafford? Let's forget about money and "who fits the system". Do you take Stafford and his system over KC and his system in the Burgundy and Gold?

I dont know actually. They're pretty close. I'll agree with gk though if I can keep gruden than I'm sticking with Cousins.

 

[skinsdad62]

im not talking about 2018 until it gets here.

you are a dodger , you talk about 2018 all the time with hypotheticals and when push comes to shove you pussy out

and we all know why . because your talking points are BS and not defensible

 

[skinsdad62]

and dean , werent you running a line of crap about wanting to "wait and see" and keeping your options open for 2018 ?

you are so bogus you dont know what line of crap you are running

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

my stand on kc if he leaves he leaves if he signs a deal he signs a deal im like i dont care

 

[j_y19]

For the umpteenth million time Shark, not saying we should get rid of him. As you and many others have said countless times, we don't have any better options in the short term.

I'm a glass half empty kinda guy wrt KC. He hasn't done enough to prove to me that he will guide us to the promised land. Myself, Dean, and a few others are continuously chastised for feeling that way. It's ok, I have thick Skin (no pun intended). But while I would expect most of the rest to be the glass half full types, it seems more are glass all full and running over in the floor. That's ok. Yalls opinion.

But VT, you are in a way saying we should let him walk if his money demands exceed what you think he deserves. So shark's question is still valid. if we let him walk over a couple of Million, who do we get? What will it cost?

 

[Sharkinva]

But VT, you are in a way saying we should let him walk if his money demands exceed what you think he deserves. So shark's question is still valid. if we let him walk over a couple of Million, who do we get? What will it cost?

I have asked this question many times of many people...

The answer I usually get....

 

[Breed]

I must admit. A trade for Stafford would be VERY tempting. He has a huge arm and has some moxy. I like Carr a lot too.

But if we had an option to keep Cousins and the 2-1st rounders or trade for one of these two, I would be a slight lean to keep KC and hope for the best. If KC walks, I would trade that for either of these guys in a hot minute.

Garropolo. Not really interested. He looks like he could be good...but who knows? Could be Matt Cassell 2.0

Huge arm? Check. Moxie? OK. Kinda goes hand in hand with huge arm. Going into his ninth year as the Detroit Lions signal caller. OK. So what has his huge arm and his moxie done for the Lions the past 8 seasons?

First though. I thought I saw this asked earlier today. Was Stafford the QB of the 0-16 Lions team or something similar. The answer is no, he was not. That was the year just before he was drafted.

OK. What Stafford has done is............lead the Lions to 3 winning (over .500) seasons and each time. The Lions made the playoffs as a wildcard team. In 2011 they went 10-6, in 2014 they went 11-5 and last year they went 9-7. In 2011 they were ass paddled out of the postseason immediately by the Saints and by the Hawks last year. In 14 I do believe they were robbed against Dallas with that first it was a penalty, now its not though call the Cowboys got. Be that as it may.

There it is...........51-61 total in his career reg season with 3 winning seasons including 2 seasons of double digit wins and 3 playoff appearances amounting to an 0-3 postseason record in his 8 years as Lions QB.

What am I missing? It can't just be the rocket launcher and moxie can it? Jeff George had both in spades. The NFL QB boneyard is littered with rocket launchers and moxie. I'm not saying Matt Stafford will never lead the Lions or another team to a SB title. He still has some prime years left. I'm just not seeing the 'He's so much more the guy than Kirk is.' vibe.

Far as moxie goes. I know I used that to describe Colt a few days ago and with VT using it now. Its not like Kirk is a pussy or a lil bitch. He's got some moxie. Kirk also has a better ypa than Stafford, significantly better in some ways if you break it down, the last two years and throughout their careers, as well as being more accurate. Accuracy and more effective down field passing trump strength 10 outta 10 times for me.

I will say the cupboards have been a little bare for Stafford, at least offensively. GThe Lions have always seemed to have decent talent on the defensive side of the ball more often that not. At least that's how I'm recalling it, I could be wrong about that. I know the Lions haven't had a running game for a while now.