OK ABC's

[Breed]

well breed this one wasnt aimed at you but certain people here want to sell this so i just wanted to see. a simple yes or no on the questions would suffice but no there isnt any butt hurt just using the words that described KC by certain posters advocating trades

Okee dokee. I sure hope no posters here actually said or believe that the defense carried Kirk or the offense in general. I also don't really get the Kirk's stats were inflated argument either. Do I think play calling was too slanted towards passing at times? Sure, but that's a long way from purposely inflating stats.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well, to be fair Shark, (as Krush said) draft position is largely dependent on the physical, and mental to a somewhat less degree, upside that a given QB projects to the NFL over the long term. It goes hand in hand. You know this.

Kirk is not the same caliber of QB physically that Stafford, Luck, probably Carr is and never will be. It's not even a debate. Where KC needs to work and continue improving us the mental side of his game. He will have to be close to flawless in that part of his game to make up for some of his physical shortcomings. If he wants to ever be considered elite and wants to gain the trust of everyone.

VT... I tend to disagree. ( I know shocking right??)

I think Draft position has alot more to do with how well your college team did in alot of cases. I will give Stafford the stronger arm, not even worth debating. But as for size, Kirk gives up 16Lbs ( they dont have White Castle or Fat Burger in DC after all) Luck has arm strength and height on them. But I think what they really had ( aside from the Arm strength) was better college numbers from better college programs period. And because they were drafted higher than Cousins, they will always have a longer leash, teams gave up more.

Draft position is dependent on the hype behind your college season. And if it were even remotely an exact science, well we know who would still be our QB on the highest contract ever.

 

[Sleepy T]

VT... I tend to disagree. ( I know shocking right??)

I think Draft position has alot more to do with how well your college team did in alot of cases. I will give Stafford the stronger arm, not even worth debating. But as for size, Kirk gives up 16Lbs ( they dont have White Castle or Fat Burger in DC after all) Luck has arm strength and height on them. But I think what they really had ( aside from the Arm strength) was better college numbers from better college programs period. And because they were drafted higher than Cousins, they will always have a longer leash, teams gave up more.

Draft position is dependent on the hype behind your college season. And if it were even remotely an exact science, well we know who would still be our QB on the highest contract ever.

I agree with your statement that highly drafted players have a longer leash, Griffin was a prime example of that. But there are plenty of very highly drafted QBs that have come from subpar programs and teams. Goff, Wentz, and plenty of QBs from good or even NC teams (Alabama and LSU come to mind) that are drafted low or not even at all. Go take a look at the 1st-2nd rounders drafted over the last 10 years, many of them were what I would call good QBs (some not so good) on just so-so college teams. They were just big strong armed guys who in most cases could make some solid throws. Some weren't so good, but out of desperation teams thought they MAKE them from ok, to great.

NFL.com Draft 2017 - NFL Draft History: Full Draft Year

 

[skinsdad62]

Okee dokee. I sure hope no posters here actually said or believe that the defense carried Kirk or the offense in general. I also don't really get the Kirk's stats were inflated argument either. Do I think play calling was too slanted towards passing at times? Sure, but that's a long way from purposely inflating stats.

his name is dean and yes he did , now throwing out the pokes at dean , would you be willing to give up 2 1st rounders for carr or stafford when they could be tagged in 2018 . i am sure those guys would be exclusive tagged

or would you roll the dice on Grap for 20-22 mil a year based on his body of work to date ?

because legitimately those 3 guys would be our only real options for a vet who is relatively young and could prevent a slide back

 

[Breed]

his name is dean and yes he did , now throwing out the pokes at dean , would you be willing to give up 2 1st rounders for carr or stafford when they could be tagged in 2018 . i am sure those guys would be exclusive tagged

or would you roll the dice on Grap for 20-22 mil a year based on his body of work to date ?

because legitimately those 3 guys would be our only real options for a vet who is relatively young and could prevent a slide back

No go for me on giving up two 1st for Carr or Stafford. I don't know who Grap is, but if he's my only other option to giving up two 1st. I'm rollin with Grap.

 

[Sharkinva]

No go for me on giving up two 1st for Carr or Stafford. I don't know who Grap is, but if he's my only other option to giving up two 1st. I'm rollin with Grap.

Jimmy Garoppolo: Career Stats at NFL.com

 

[Breed]

Jimmy Garoppolo: Career Stats at NFL.com

ahh, thanks, Shark.

 

[skinsdad62]

No go for me on giving up two 1st for Carr or Stafford. I don't know who Grap is, but if he's my only other option to giving up two 1st. I'm rollin with Grap.

the pats BU garapolo

 

[gkekoa]

Well, to be fair Shark, (as Krush said) draft position is largely dependent on the physical, and mental to a somewhat less degree, upside that a given QB projects to the NFL over the long term. It goes hand in hand. You know this.

Kirk is not the same caliber of QB physically that Stafford, Luck, probably Carr is and never will be. It's not even a debate. Where KC needs to work and continue improving us the mental side of his game. He will have to be close to flawless in that part of his game to make up for some of his physical shortcomings. If he wants to ever be considered elite and wants to gain the trust of everyone.

Draft position is highly dependent upon athleticism, something that is mitigated to truly unimportant in the NFL.

Physical prowess is overrated at the QB position...Manning, Brady, And Montana, widely considered the top three ever, were not and are not any better, likely worse, athletes than KC.

 

[Sharkinva]

ahh, thanks, Shark.

No Prob.

And no forking way do I give up two firsts right now for Grap. I just see shades of Cassell/Oswieler. A kid who had a spectacular Defense to lean on, a coach who was NOT going to put the game on his shoulders at all if he could avoid it, and Two 1st rounders plus a contract that at te end of the day will come in just shy of Carr, Stafford or Cousins...

Nope.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK VT would you make the moves proposed in this original post ? 2 numbers ones for either carr or stafford ? or grap for 20-22 mil ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Also for the record, I would not give up two 1st round picks for Cousins either.

I have no problem spending Dans money. And I think the team survives the cap hit no matter what. But if Kirk were the property of another team, THEN I would be willing to roll the dice and still hope we are not in the market to trade up come the next draft.

 

[Sleepy T]

I must admit. A trade for Stafford would be VERY tempting. He has a huge arm and has some moxy. I like Carr a lot too.

But if we had an option to keep Cousins and the 2-1st rounders or trade for one of these two, I would be a slight lean to keep KC and hope for the best. If KC walks, I would trade that for either of these guys in a hot minute.

Garropolo. Not really interested. He looks like he could be good...but who knows? Could be Matt Cassell 2.0

 

[skinsdad62]

I must admit. A trade for Stafford would be VERY tempting. He has a huge arm and has some moxy. I like Carr a lot too.

But if we had an option to keep Cousins and the 2-1st rounders or trade for one of these two, I would be a slight lean to keep KC and hope for the best. If KC walks, I would trade that for either of these guys in a hot minute.

Garropolo. Not really interested. He looks like he could be good...but who knows? Could be Matt Cassell 2.0

so you are on record for giving up 2 1st rounders and the salary it would cost if KC walks ? understanding it isnt your 1st option

 

[Sharkinva]

@skinsdad62

You know I should have filed for a patent for the phrase ABC Fan

Something tells me I would make at least $100 between now and 7/15.

 

[skinsdad62]

@skinsdad62

You know I should have filed for a patent for the phrase ABC Fan

Something tells me I would make at least $100 between now and 7/15.

well shark as edison did to tesla i have done to you , i patented it and i get the 100

 

[Sleepy T]

Draft position is highly dependent upon athleticism, something that is mitigated to truly unimportant in the NFL.

Physical prowess is overrated at the QB position...Manning, Brady, And Montana, widely considered the top three ever, were not and are not any better, likely worse, athletes than KC.

I don't disagree with your points. Even though it may be mitigated to unimportant, it doesn't change the fact that prospects with superior arms, accuracy, intangibles, athleticism, or most likely, a combination of these attributes will be drafted high. Kirk was good in some of these areas, but not superior in any.

The Mannings were exceptional in their mechanics, intangibles, and had the pedigree.
Brady is just anomaly. But his accuracy and intelligence are off the charts.
Montana, not a very good example, from a different era. Not sure how well he would do today?

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't disagree with your points. Even though it may be mitigated to unimportant, it doesn't change the fact that prospects with superior arms, accuracy, intangibles, athleticism, or most likely, a combination of these attributes will be drafted high. Kirk was good in some of these areas, but not superior in any.

The Mannings were exceptional in their mechanics, intangibles, and had the pedigree.
Brady is just anomaly. But his accuracy and intelligence are off the charts.
Montana, not a very good example, from a different era. Not sure how well he would do today?

he would do exceptionally well , he could move and escape and he saw the field as well as anybody

 

[ehb5]

I don't think I'd give up 2 firsts for Cousins, Carr, or Stafford. Not sure if that's the right answer though.

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't think I'd give up 2 firsts for Cousins, Carr, or Stafford. Not sure if that's the right answer though.

no its the answer you gave and it makes sense