OK ABC's

[skinsdad62]

since you all think that KC is a greedy whore who chokes in big games has inflated stats and is carried by our shitty defense what do we do ? since we believe other teams feel the same way but got a case of the dumbass and signed him anyway

i had one poster say carr and stafford were better the the hugely flawed KC so let me ask this

do you trade 2 # one picks to get either carr or stafford if they are franchised ? and next are you willing to pay them the 25 mil franchise tag and /or pay them the highest contract in NFL history

and of course do you give up 2 number ones for a franchised garraplo(not likely scenario ) or do you pay him the luck deal ?

these are your veteran options that could keep us moving in the right direction

 

[Sleepy T]

KC isn't a greedy whore...until he turns down a perfectly great deal. That is yet to be determined. Its gonna be comical to see how you people spin it if he does.

I don't think I would trade 2-#1 picks for Stafford or Carr, but I also believe they are better right now (Stafford) or could certainly be better (Carr) going forward.

No to Grapp. He is much less proven than KC.

I guess the only real option is to give KC the Luck deal and hope that he continues to perform at a high level, given a drop in talent at the WR position. I know you people fail to consider that the last couple of years is a product of the system, lack of D, running game... a bit of a fluke, but it's a real possibility. KC could be the next Brees and he could just as well be the next Cassell. JMHO.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

KC isn't a greedy whore...until he turns down a perfectly great deal. That is yet to be determined. I can't wait to see how you spin it if he does sdad.

I don't think they would trade 2-#1 picks for Stafford or Carr, but I also believe they are better right now (Stafford) or could certainly be better (Carr) going forward.

No to Grapp. He is much less proven than KC.

I guess the only real option is to give KC the Luck deal, not a penny more.

Fair enough. I don't really agree @ Stafford as I stated elsewhere, but I can see your pt & would not disagree too much. However - I would also add that moving forward Cousins is capable of being better than both of these guys - we will see.

 

[Sleepy T]

Fair enough. I don't really agree @ Stafford as I stated elsewhere, but I can see your pt & would not disagree too much. However - I would also add that moving forward Cousins is capable of being better than both of these guys - we will see.

Sure, he could end up better. But if I was a betting man, my $$$ would be on Stafford/Carr as having a better career. That's all Im saying.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sure, he could end up better. But if I was a betting man, my $$$ would be on Stafford/Carr as having a better career. That's all Im saying.

OK im willing to give you Carr, because he is younger.. despite him coming back off of a broken leg so we really have no idea how that will affect his game.

Stafford is an eight year starter who until last year the rumblings were should Detroit move on.

So aside from Carr's youth, and both having a higher draft position.. what makes them such a safer risk that Cousins in your esteemed opinion??

 

[Krusheasy]

So aside from Carr's youth, and both having a higher draft position.. what makes them such a safer risk that Cousins in your esteemed opinion??

we would want them to get paid more ... that is a good thing for us, no ?

and they deserve to get paid more based on where they were drafted ...

Cousins is a 4th round mutt ... and will never have the pedigree of stafford

but that doesnt mean he cant get paid

however ... Carr & stafford will set the asking price ... not the other way around

 

[Sleepy T]

OK im willing to give you Carr, because he is younger.. despite him coming back off of a broken leg so we really have no idea how that will affect his game.

Stafford is an eight year starter who until last year the rumblings were should Detroit move on.

So aside from Carr's youth, and both having a higher draft position.. what makes them such a safer risk that Cousins in your esteemed opinion??

Well, with regards to Stafford, he has gotten it done and played well over a longer period of time for the shittiest franchise (tied with Cleveland) in the NFL. Funny we are debating this because Polian was JUST talking about it on NFL Live. He said Cousins is good, Stafford is in the "elite" category with a handful of others. Doesn't make it truth. None of us know the future.

Carr is a push. He is younger and KCs equal at the moment. I just think physically he is more gifted. Doesn't necessarily mean better, but often, gifted = great, while not so gifted = not quite as great, at least over the long haul.

 

[Sharkinva]

we would want them to get paid more ... that is a good thing for us, no ?

and they deserve to get paid more based on where they were drafted ...

Cousins is a 4th round mutt ... and will never have the pedigree of stafford

but that doesnt mean he cant get paid

however ... Carr & stafford will set the asking price ... not the other way around

Draft pedigree?? So basically you are saying they deserve to make more because they have ALREADY made more than Cousins??

Also, Carr and Stafford wont be signed until after the tag deadline, so for all intents Cousins deal sets the market right now.

 

[gkekoa]

KC isn't a greedy whore...until he turns down a perfectly great deal. That is yet to be determined. Its gonna be comical to see how you people spin it if he does.

I don't think I would trade 2-#1 picks for Stafford or Carr, but I also believe they are better right now (Stafford) or could certainly be better (Carr) going forward.

No to Grapp. He is much less proven than KC.

I guess the only real option is to give KC the Luck deal and hope that he continues to perform at a high level, given a drop in talent at the WR position. I know you people fail to consider that the last couple of years is a product of the system, lack of D, running game... a bit of a fluke, but it's a real possibility. KC could be the next Brees and he could just as well be the next Cassell. JMHO.

If KC turns down a big deal, there is no spin. He doesn't want to be here.

I would say there is more talent at WR this season. Talent doesn't always breed success. Garçon wasn't that talented. He was tough. DJ had talent but lacked in effort. I would say Pryor has more talent than any of them. I would say Doctson has more upside than either. I would expect JC to be better.

 

[Krusheasy]

. He said Cousins is good, Stafford is in the "elite" category.

i would agree with this ...

granted our defense was shit ....

his comeback drive vs us last year ... yeah, thats what makes a QB "elite"

you can not take that away from him just because our defense ran out of gas

 

[Krusheasy]

Draft pedigree?? So basically you are saying they deserve to make more because they have ALREADY made more than Cousins??

Also, Carr and Stafford wont be signed until after the tag deadline, so for all intents Cousins deal sets the market right now.

basically ... yeah ... they must be taller, stronger, quicker, smarter ... all the measurable they use at the combine ?

when is the deadline for carr and stafford to sign ?

its different then cousins ?

 

[Breed]

since you all think that KC is a greedy whore who chokes in big games has inflated stats and is carried by our shitty defense what do we do ? since we believe other teams feel the same way but got a case of the dumbass and signed him anyway

i had one poster say carr and stafford were better the the hugely flawed KC so let me ask this

do you trade 2 # one picks to get either carr or stafford if they are franchised ? and next are you willing to pay them the 25 mil franchise tag and /or pay them the highest contract in NFL history

and of course do you give up 2 number ones for a franchised garraplo(not likely scenario ) or do you pay him the luck deal ?

these are your veteran options that could keep us moving in the right direction

Whole lotta butt-hurt and some bullshit in this ^^^^^^^post.

 

[Sharkinva]

basically ... yeah ... they must be taller, stronger, quicker, smarter ... all the measurable they use at the combine ?

when is the deadline for carr and stafford to sign ?

its different then cousins ?

Carr and Stafford dont have a deadline.

Carr is still on his rookie deal, and even if they dont get him signed, they can always tag him next year.

Same thing with Stafford.

We are the only ones on a deadline because we used the tag. The Lions and Raiders could simply say, play on your current deal and if we cant get something we like next season, we can tag you at what will be around $25 Million for the season.

 

[Krusheasy]

The Lions and Raiders could simply say, play on your current deal and if we cant get something we like next season, we can tag you at what will be around $25 Million for the season.

understood ...

but, according to "un named sources" lol ... back in April ? both Stafford and Carr were working on a deals/extensions to their current contracts ...

true they do not need to get one done this year ... or could be tagged

I feel like Stafford will, because he is such a good guy, be the first to sign a contract.

Can he get tagged ... and then sign a deal after the july 17 deadline ?

 

[Krusheasy]

i get lost in all the minutia ...

we need a contract lawyer to explain this shit

 

[Sharkinva]

understood ...

but, according to "un named sources" lol ... back in April ? both Stafford and Carr were working on a deals/extensions to their current contracts ...

true they do not need to get one done this year ... or could be tagged

I feel like Stafford will, because he is such a good guy, be the first to sign a contract.

Can he get tagged ... and then sign a deal after the july 17 deadline ?

First off.. Much respect for actually being the first to come out and say, Draft position has alot to do with this in your opinion.

Now as for your question on Stafford/Carr and the tag.

Neither is currently tagged. Both are in the last year of their respective deals. So the tag would apply next year 2018. And as always with the tag rule, they can sign the tender, but if they have not signed a long term deal by 7/15/2018, the Raiders/Lions would risk getting into the same situation we are in. So if either does not get a long term deal between NOW and the end of the 2017 season, I expect one or both to be franchise tagged in 2018, and the Raiders and Lions fans get to experience our particular level of hell the past two off seasons.

 

[skinsdad62]

Whole lotta butt-hurt and some bullshit in this ^^^^^^^post.

well breed this one wasnt aimed at you but certain people here want to sell this so i just wanted to see. a simple yes or no on the questions would suffice but no there isnt any butt hurt just using the words that described KC by certain posters advocating trades

 

[skinsdad62]

Carr and Stafford dont have a deadline.

Carr is still on his rookie deal, and even if they dont get him signed, they can always tag him next year.

Same thing with Stafford.

We are the only ones on a deadline because we used the tag. The Lions and Raiders could simply say, play on your current deal and if we cant get something we like next season, we can tag you at what will be around $25 Million for the season.

i am talking about next season and beyond

 

[Sharkinva]

since you all think that KC is a greedy whore who chokes in big games has inflated stats and is carried by our shitty defense what do we do ? since we believe other teams feel the same way but got a case of the dumbass and signed him anyway

i had one poster say carr and stafford were better the the hugely flawed KC so let me ask this

do you trade 2 # one picks to get either carr or stafford if they are franchised ? and next are you willing to pay them the 25 mil franchise tag and /or pay them the highest contract in NFL history

and of course do you give up 2 number ones for a franchised garraplo(not likely scenario ) or do you pay him the luck deal ?

these are your veteran options that could keep us moving in the right direction

i am talking about next season and beyond

I know you were talking about next year. So here is my answer to the original post.

Do I give up two picks for Carr?? Yes.. not so much because I think he is or will hands down be better than Kirk. BUt because I would rather give up two firsts for a player that will let us continue to build and will satisfy the Owner and fan base for the sexy move, more than i want to see us drop 2+ first rounders on a Rookie next year.

Grap.... Nope, not a chance. Two 1st rounders and I get to spend the off season with shades of Matt Cassell dancing through my nightmares AND pay him what Kirk is asking for any way??


Staffords a year older, and aside from "Draft Pedigree" while playing with a true HOF WR, IM just not seeing this all fired greater talent than Cousins.

 

[Sleepy T]

First off.. Much respect for actually being the first to come out and say, Draft position has alot to do with this in your opinion.

Well, to be fair Shark, (as Krush said) draft position is largely dependent on the physical, and mental to a somewhat less degree, upside that a given QB projects to the NFL over the long term. It goes hand in hand. You know this.

Kirk is not the same caliber of QB physically that Stafford, Luck, probably Carr is and never will be. It's not even a debate. Where KC needs to work and continue improving us the mental side of his game. He will have to be close to flawless in that part of his game to make up for some of his physical shortcomings. If he wants to ever be considered elite and wants to gain the trust of everyone.