Offseason, cap, team needs, etc

[NetsGotBanned21]

I'm really confused at how you're coming at me Nets? Why show me a link to what Dallas offered Murray. I never said anything about that. All I said is if Dallas WANTS to keep him its gonna cost more then the 6 million per you thought it would take to keep him. Just cause Jerry offered him a "insulting" offer has NOTHING to do with what I said. All I said is 6 mill ain't getting it done. Could he say, "Man, I don't want to move and uproot my kids and take 6 mill", I suppose so, but I highly doubt it cause this will bw his one an only big money contract and someone will give a superstar RB more then what Jerry just offered.

I don't study contracts but you and Jarntt are saying his 1st year cap hit will be less then 8. Maybe I'm wrong but I think Dez wants a MEGA "I am the best WR in the NFL" type of contract. That's what Fitz got and that's what Megatron got. I just think this is a 9 figure contract and can't see how it will only work out to an 8 million hit. And if francjized I think Dez frigging erupts.

I'm not doubting anything about Dallas. I'm not saying they won't get these deals done. I'm just saying Dez and Demarco are going to get PAID. And in Dez's case... 9 figure mega deal (which he deserves).

No RB is worth anything over 6-7M per anymore due to the talent in college and the talent in FA this year. Simple supply and demand. Demand for RB's are low as the supply is currently high, basic economics brother.

As for Dez players want to be highest paid all the time. Look at Revis, he has had 3 contracts in the last three years and will be 4 after this year that made him highest paid, and all were dummy contracts, won't get into details.

I'll tell you this, lets go on a stretch and say the Cowboys go crazy and give Dez an average of 19M per and 61M guaranteed (will never happen; but lets say it does as the worst case scenario ever in life), we can then use the Colin Kaepernick contract as a tool as that is his contract now.

2014 3.764M cap hit
2015 15.265M cap hit
2016 16.765M cap hit
2017 19.365M cap hit
2018 19.865M cap hit
2019 21.2M cap hit
2020 23.4M cap hit

seems like a lot of money right? Well it's the details that matter for this contract, that after 2015 season none of those years would cost the 9ers a dime to cut Kap before April of the new league year, so basically he is on a 2yr 19M deal basically first two years fully guaranteed, which is the truth of the contract. So his annual average is 9.5M per which is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr less than that of a good quarterback.

In the same breath I could say Dez I'll give you a 10yr/175M contract with 35M in guaranteed money (first two years guaranteed):

2015 2M base 6M bonus 8M cap hit 35M dead money
2016 3M base 6M bonus 9M cap hit 27M dead money
2017 4M base 6M bonus 10M cap hit 18M dead money
2018 5M base 6M bonus 11M cap hit 12M dead money
2019 6M base 6M bonus 12M cap hit 6M dead money 5yr/50M/35M guaranteed/10M per avg
2020 15M base 0 bonus 15M cap hit 0 dead money
2021 20M base 0 bonus 20M cap hit 0 dead money
2022 25M base 0 bonus 25M cap hit 0 dead money
2023 30M base 0 bonus 30M cap hit 0 dead money
2024 35M base 0 bonus 35M cap hit 0 dead money 5yr/125M/0 guaranteed/25M per avg

That's a contract average of 17.5M over 10 years; but a real contract of 5yrs 50M with 35M guaranteed which is a 10M average; so once again I don't care what they give Dez, they can give him a 20M per season average over 10 years to be the first 200M contract in the NFL, and it won't matter on bit. The true contract are in the details, as you can see on the breakdown of the above two contracts. Hope this helps.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

My only issue with that, and yes I know JF isn't in legal trouble and people deserve second chances, but do you want to take what we have right now and basically in the offseason add Brent back to the mix, plus AP, plus JF, but Gordon?

I don't want any part of JFF or Gordon. AP I'm ok with, that deal got out of hand quickly and became a lynch mob.

I'd do it simply because Gordon is a FA next year and cost nothing to cut if we had to, but think of him and Dez and Twill together with AP in the backfield :-O no more doubles on Dez, no more stacking the box to stop the run. We would be best O in NFL easy, worth the risk to me.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

I think you are confusing Cap hit and REAL MONEY. Dez is going to get a huge signing bonus that will go along way towards making him rich and giving him the guaranteed $'s he wants, but along with that his year 1 salary will be very low AS COMPARED to the other years in the contract. The signing bonus from a cap perspective will be split evenly over the maximum 5 years and when added to his low year 1 salary to determine his cap hit will not be over $10M and perhaps well below. Doesn't mean he isn't getting a mega deal, just the way it works against the cap is all we are saying.

Exactly, Dez will probably get a huge deal, he may even get the biggest contract ever for a player at 10yr/150M, but it doesn't mean he will see an average of 15M per nor 150M. All about the details.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

If he really wants it, I'd go with 4 years at $5.5M, but not much more than that. I'm jaded as a Dallas fan. We have seen this before. A RB runs really hard when he's in his contract year, and then plays the "I'm not gonna get hurt, I gotta get ready for the next contract" game.

Personally the only RB and I mean ONLY RB in the NFL that I'd pay 6M per or more for would be AP and I think 7-8M per would be my cap on him. No RB is worth mega bucks anymore they are to easy to replace in todays NFL.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Personally the only RB and I mean ONLY RB in the NFL that I'd pay 6M per or more for would be AP and I think 7-8M per would be my cap on him. No RB is worth mega bucks anymore they are to easy to replace in todays NFL.

I agree with you, I think at RB, you have to almost look at it like WAR in baseball.....meaning, with the Cowboys OL, with defenses always keeping a safety back for Dez, how many yards would other backs have ran for? I think AP would have topped 2000. Even what they have, Randle might not have gone for 1800, but I bet he could have done 1200, which would still be near the top of the league

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

I agree with you, I think at RB, you have to almost look at it like WAR in baseball.....meaning, with the Cowboys OL, with defenses always keeping a safety back for Dez, how many yards would other backs have ran for? I think AP would have topped 2000. Even what they have, Randle might not have gone for 1800, but I bet he could have done 1200, which would still be near the top of the league

I think you can get DMac or CJ Spiller in this O and they could get 1,500 easy. What made Murray special is he got those tough yards that even when someone hit him, he still picked up 2-3 yards more.

Think of it this way, if all the rumors are true about Lynch and AP being cut what the RB market could look like:

AP
Lynch
Forsett
Ryan Matthews
Spiller
DMac
Murray
Gore
Ingram
Moreno
Hell I wouldn't want him on my team but Ray Rice even.

You are looking at 11 RB's that I believe could/would run for over 1,500 yards behind this OL next season, with AP over 2k.

Now include the Talent in the Draft Gurley, Gordon, Duke Johnson, Tevon Coleman, TJ Yeldon, Ameer Abdullah, Mike Davis, Jay Ajayi, Javorious Allen, Jeremy Langford, and Josh Robinson and then ask yourself why in the hell would I pay an RB over 6M per when I could draft one in the first 3 rounds that would get me at least 1,200 yards next season.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Thanks for that Nets. I knew most of that except the penalty being spread over 2 years. I don't think Dezs agent is going to go for a back loaded deal. He will definitely want the big signing bonus but he's gonna want one of those cap breaking deals that are killing the Cards with Fitz and the big deal effecting the Vikings with AP. Looks like Detroit will lose Suh cause of Megatrons deal too. Dez was all ready reportedly mad at the initial offer a while ago. I thin its smart what Philly does. The end the rookie deal after year 3 and give them a big bonus early but are underpaid later. But... sometimes that doesn't work cause the players get angry. Once they get to FA you just have to overpay. I agree Dallas should let Murray go and Gurley would be there most likely when Dallas picks.

The thought of grabbing Clevelands WR scares me as an Eagles fan. That would be one incredible O. I also know Philly hates Leseans deal and he might only be around one more year. Its easy to find RB talent. Not talent like McCoy but Detroit starting RB was our 5th a few years ago. Lesean went down and Bryce Brown put up back to back 165+ yard games. Teams can't pay 9 mill for RBs anymore. I just think Murray is gonna get paid because he hid the flawed Cowboys D.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

Thanks for that Nets. I knew most of that except the penalty being spread over 2 years. I don't think Dezs agent is going to go for a back loaded deal. He will definitely want the big signing bonus but he's gonna want one of those cap breaking deals that are killing the Cards with Fitz and the big deal effecting the Vikings with AP. Looks like Detroit will lose Suh cause of Megatrons deal too. Dez was all ready reportedly mad at the initial offer a while ago. I thin its smart what Philly does. The end the rookie deal after year 3 and give them a big bonus early but are underpaid later. But... sometimes that doesn't work cause the players get angry. Once they get to FA you just have to overpay. I agree Dallas should let Murray go and Gurley would be there most likely when Dallas picks.

The thought of grabbing Clevelands WR scares me as an Eagles fan. That would be one incredible O. I also know Philly hates Leseans deal and he might only be around one more year. Its easy to find RB talent. Not talent like McCoy but Detroit starting RB was our 5th a few years ago. Lesean went down and Bryce Brown put up back to back 165+ yard games. Teams can't pay 9 mill for RBs anymore. I just think Murray is gonna get paid because he hid the flawed Cowboys D.

Glad we are seeing it more eye to eye now. I think Shady get cut after next season. It's funny you bring up the AP deal, because the reality of it is the deal isn't killing the Vikings, there is no dead money left on the books with that deal. The plan I assume was always to do something with AP by this year, either trade, restructure, release, just because of the contracts make up, it's just that AP basically forced his release with the BS he got called out for. I think AP takes a deal less than 6M per to be at home and a chance to win a SB at home, he would be a Texas legend, and if you are from Texas you know how much that would mean personally to him.

 

[tomodach10]

Dmac???? LOL I heard about him on the ESPN board years ago. Why the hell would we want him now lol

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

Dmac???? LOL I heard about him on the ESPN board years ago. Why the hell would we want him now lol

First off because not even AP could run behind that OL in Oakland, as well as DMac had stacked box due to the lack of a QB and outside threat. I'd take a chance on him let's say 3yrs/5M? I'd bet he could get between 1,200-1,500 yards behind this OL

 

[jarntt]

I think you can get DMac or CJ Spiller in this O and they could get 1,500 easy. What made Murray special is he got those tough yards that even when someone hit him, he still picked up 2-3 yards more.

Think of it this way, if all the rumors are true about Lynch and AP being cut what the RB market could look like:

AP
Lynch
Forsett
Ryan Matthews
Spiller
DMac
Murray
Gore
Ingram
Moreno
Hell I wouldn't want him on my team but Ray Rice even.

You are looking at 11 RB's that I believe could/would run for over 1,500 yards behind this OL next season, with AP over 2k.

Now include the Talent in the Draft Gurley, Gordon, Duke Johnson, Tevon Coleman, TJ Yeldon, Ameer Abdullah, Mike Davis, Jay Ajayi, Javorious Allen, Jeremy Langford, and Josh Robinson and then ask yourself why in the hell would I pay an RB over 6M per when I could draft one in the first 3 rounds that would get me at least 1,200 yards next season.

Wow. IMO that is way off base and completely disrespectful to what Murray did this year. The guy proved himself to be one of the top RBs in the league. Yeah, most running backs would do better on our team than their current team, but Murray was a HUGE part of why we were successful running the ball. The OL was great, but it's not like they made Murray. He has been great when healthy since he has been in the league. But to say some of those guys would get 1,500 yards in Dallas next year is nuts. I bet none of those guys ever rushes for 1,500 yards in a year again other than AP and I wouldn't say he is a guarantee for the simple reason that it is very hard. Do you know not one RB in the league other than Murray even had 1,400 yards this year? Do you know who beat out DMac for carries this year? Rice and Gore may never be starters again.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Linehan resigned with the Cowboys as well. Outstanding job by Jerry wrapping those guys up. Now lets get Dez signed and transition tag Murray....

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

Wow. IMO that is way off base and completely disrespectful to what Murray did this year. The guy proved himself to be one of the top RBs in the league. Yeah, most running backs would do better on our team than their current team, but Murray was a HUGE part of why we were successful running the ball. The OL was great, but it's not like they made Murray. He has been great when healthy since he has been in the league. But to say some of those guys would get 1,500 yards in Dallas next year is nuts. I bet none of those guys ever rushes for 1,500 yards in a year again other than AP and I wouldn't say he is a guarantee for the simple reason that it is very hard. Do you know not one RB in the league other than Murray even had 1,400 yards this year? Do you know who beat out DMac for carries this year? Rice and Gore may never be starters again.

Not to be disrespectful; but I do not think you are looking at it correctly. Murray had 392 carries this season, so lets round that up to 400 carries. I think every one of those backs could and would average 4.0 yards a carry behind this OL, I think an average RB in the NFL could average 4.0 per a carry. Well if you take 4 times 400 you get 1,600 yards out of it. Not saying Murray was not good; BUT I will say that AP who has a career average of 5.0 while being the main focus in Minny could get 4.5 per carry and that would be 1,800 yards for the season on 400 carries. To get 1,400 yards on 400 carries all you have to do is average 3.5 per carry, which for most of these backs in the NFL should be no problem. Agree or no? To me if you disagree that a NFL back couldn't get 4 yards per average behind this OL, then that would mean our OL isn't as good as we make it out to be. With a great OL an average back should be able to get 4 per a carry correct?

 

[UK Cowboy]

Not to be disrespectful; but I do not think you are looking at it correctly. Murray had 392 carries this season, so lets round that up to 400 carries. I think every one of those backs could and would average 4.0 yards a carry behind this OL, I think an average RB in the NFL could average 4.0 per a carry. Well if you take 4 times 400 you get 1,600 yards out of it. Not saying Murray was not good; BUT I will say that AP who has a career average of 5.0 while being the main focus in Minny could get 4.5 per carry and that would be 1,800 yards for the season on 400 carries. To get 1,400 yards on 400 carries all you have to do is average 3.5 per carry, which for most of these backs in the NFL should be no problem. Agree or no? To me if you disagree that a NFL back couldn't get 4 yards per average behind this OL, then that would mean our OL isn't as good as we make it out to be. With a great OL an average back should be able to get 4 per a carry correct?

Obviously, it would be great to keep Murray(transition?), but Gordon or Gurley paired with Randle would be interesting IMO

 

[Mrhappi06]

Not to be disrespectful; but I do not think you are looking at it correctly. Murray had 392 carries this season, so lets round that up to 400 carries. I think every one of those backs could and would average 4.0 yards a carry behind this OL, I think an average RB in the NFL could average 4.0 per a carry. Well if you take 4 times 400 you get 1,600 yards out of it. Not saying Murray was not good; BUT I will say that AP who has a career average of 5.0 while being the main focus in Minny could get 4.5 per carry and that would be 1,800 yards for the season on 400 carries. To get 1,400 yards on 400 carries all you have to do is average 3.5 per carry, which for most of these backs in the NFL should be no problem. Agree or no? To me if you disagree that a NFL back couldn't get 4 yards per average behind this OL, then that would mean our OL isn't as good as we make it out to be. With a great OL an average back should be able to get 4 per a carry correct?

We havent even had a 1200 yard rusher since Emimitt and now some folks seem to think that just about anyone can do what Murray did. I disagree. THough I dont think he deserves monster cash, I think he deserves some respect, and maybe baby Mothra cash.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

We havent even had a 1200 yard rusher since Emimitt and now some folks seem to think that just about anyone can do what Murray did. I disagree. THough I dont think he deserves monster cash, I think he deserves some respect, and maybe baby Mothra cash.

2013 Murray had 217 carries 1,121 yards 5.2 per carry
2012 Murray had 161 carries 663 yards 4.1 per carry
2011 Murray had 164 carries 897 yards 5.5 per carry
2010 Felix had 185 carries 800 yards 4.3 per carry
2009 MB3 had 214 carries 932 yards 4.4 per carry

Kind of hard for anyone to get over 1,200 yards when the most carries any back has received in the last 5 years before this past year was 217 in 2013.

Since 2009 24 RB's have carried the rock 300 times or more 23 of those RB's have rushed for 1,200 or more every time expect the one time being Cedric Benson in 2010 when he had a horrible 3.5 per carry, the next year he isn't in the NFL, the fact that in 2009 Benson also had the lowest average of any of these 23 guys to rush for 1,200 plus at 301 carries for 1,253 should've told the Bears something which it did and why they drafted Forte.

So once more if I am going to give a RB 350-400 carries per a season, and my OL is that good, I am telling you that every back in the last 6 seasons and I'm sure more if I went back longer except for Benson being the lone one could rush for 1,200 plus yards easy!

 

[Mrhappi06]

So they didnt, but they could have? Yep, that settles it for me.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

So they didnt, but they could have? Yep, that settles it for me.

Stop being a smart ass and look at the history of RB's that run for 300 carries or more in the NFL. You know what, it's pointless. Probability is Murray won't be a Cowboy next year if he wants more than 6M per, so odds are you see another back run for 1,200 plus behind this line if he gets 300 carries or more. I'd bet on that too, since you're so sure.....call it!

 

[Mrhappi06]

So basically we could have kept Quincy Carter, let him sling the rock 650 times like Romo one year, and he could have broken all of Troys records too. Yep, anybody can do this. You win. And it certainly would have been a cheaper option.

 

[NetsGotBanned21]

So basically we could have kept Quincy Carter, let him sling the rock 650 times like Romo one year, and he could have broken all of Troys records too. Yep, anybody can do this. You win. And it certainly would have been a cheaper option.

Never said anything about QB, but hey like I said bet or shut up. I'm done talking. I'll bet 10,000.00 that if we have a RB not named Murray carry 300 plus times next season, that he will get 1,200 yards or more. If you don't want to bet 10,000.00 then you call it, and trust me I am not bluffing when I put out that number; so put up or shut up, because if you not willing to put up then you don't even believe in what you are saying, you're just talking.