Official Raw thread

[jakedog56]

I will buy that excuse for Shawn Michaels, he was small guy incredible. Which part of Dbags work do you like best, his wind up kicks to the thigh, wind up kicks to the chest or wind up kicks to the head? DBag is a super sized hornswaggle that skips around with his yes chants. He already bowed out of being the man, he will work Reigns to the top, but I highly doubt he will ever get there again. People say Reigns doesnt have enough moves, when they are thunder spears and superman punches, its enough. Reigns in ring is not much worse than Lesnar, please dont make me watch dbag in any match at wrestlemania. I really dont know where he will be booked if its not against reigns, they only have a few weeks to start another feud.

Really?!? Daniel Bryan is a d-bag, but Shawn Michaels gets your praise??

Shawn Michaels was a reprehensible human being and a true d bag in pretty much every respect. He ruined peoples careers just because he could. Additionally, I would say that Bryan is on the same level as he was as a worker. To discount Bryan as a bad worker is pretty ridiculous when you compare him to others in the ring.

Screw Shawn Micheals. Even he now admits that he was a huge tool back in the day but most former wrestlers are quite skeptical when he spouts off about his new found religious, better-man crap.

 

[anotheridiot]

has nothing to do with anyones personal life, Shawn Michaels in the ring is what we should be concerned with. There were never any times where there were just no way when watching shawn in a match.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

has nothing to do with anyones personal life, Shawn Michaels in the ring is what we should be concerned with. There were never any times where there were just no way when watching shawn in a match.

Shawn was a DBag in the ring too. I've lost count of how many times he FAKED injury back in the day to avoid dropping a title in a match. "Lost Smile" anyone?

In wrestling, small men beat big men all the time. How beliveable it is is determined by how well the big man sells the small man's moves and how well the booker/creative scripts (books) the match set up and the match itself. For a Danial Bryan win over Brock to be believeable the booker just needs to have Brock make a fatal mistake such as miss a charge on Danial and run his shoulder repeately into a ring post. Danial then puts Brock in the Yes Lock and Brock is forced to tap or passes out from the pain and loses the match.

Size is relative. A 6 foot 8, 300 pound Hogan looked small next to a 7 foot 4, 550 pound Andre The Giant during WrestleMania 3. Hogan has said many times that going into the WrestleMania 3 match he was never completely sure that Andre would go along and let him win. And if Andre The Giant doesn't let you win, you have no chance whatsoever no matter how big you are! Point is, wresling is scripted. A good script makes any win believable. Although, WWE (read as Vince) is pretty bad at that lately!!!

 

[StanMarsh51]

Shawn was a DBag in the ring too. I've lost count of how many times he FAKED injury back in the day to avoid dropping a title in a match. "Lost Smile" anyone?

In wrestling, small men beat big men all the time. How beliveable it is is determined by how well the big man sells the small man's moves and how well the booker/creative scripts (books) the match set up and the match itself. For a Danial Bryan win over Brock to be believeable the booker just needs to have Brock make a fatal mistake such as miss a charge on Danial and run his shoulder repeately into a ring post. Danial then puts Brock in the Yes Lock and Brock is forced to tap or passes out from the pain and loses the match.

Size is relative. A 6 foot 8, 300 pound Hogan looked small next to a 7 foot 4, 550 pound Andre The Giant during WrestleMania 3. Hogan has said many times that going into the WrestleMania 3 match he was never completely sure that Andre would go along and let him win. And if Andre The Giant doesn't let you win, you have no chance whatsoever no matter how big you are! Point is, wresling is scripted. A good script makes any win believable. Although, WWE (read as Vince) is pretty bad at that lately!!!

Ding ding ding...somebody gets it.

I don't know why people seem to think the little guy has to demolish/beatdown the big guy the entire match to win.

I keep bringing up Bret Hart's title wins wins over big men, but it's a perfect example of how it could be executed....

• Wrestlemania 10 - beats Yokozuna after Yokozuna tries to go for the banzai drop but falls off the ropes, allowing Bret to go for a pin over a 'concussed' Yokozuna.

• Survivor Series 1995 - beats Diesel after Diesel tries going for a 2nd straight powerbomb, and Bret gets him with an inside cradle for the win.

• Summerslam 1997 - Bret vs Taker with HBK the special guest referee. Bret was a heel at this time, and tried to bring in a chair to which HBK pulled it away. Bret then spat at HBK, leading to HBK attempting to hit Bret with the chair but Bret ducked so the chair hit Taker. Bret pinned Taker and HBK reluctantly made the 3 count.

Three great examples of how a smaller guy can win vs a much larger opponent. No sharpshooter needed, no pummeling the larger guy until they're unconscious needed.

 

[anotheridiot]

You keep bringing up Brett Hart, he wrestled at 235-245. He wasnt wrestling at 205 like Bryan or CM Punk, Rey Mysterio at 175.

280-235 is much different than 300-205 or 500-205.

Hart also had more offense than kicks, he also had charisma 10X idiots screaming yes.

As far as hogan, Andre the giant was brought to the ring on a fucking lift. He was gonna get to the mat one time for the pin. He could not stand back up again when he went down. I am pretty sure they had to slack the ring ropes just to get him in the ring.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

You keep bringing up Brett Hart, he wrestled at 235-245. He wasnt wrestling at 205 like Bryan or CM Punk, Rey Mysterio at 175.

280-235 is much different than 300-205 or 500-205.

Hart also had more offense than kicks, he also had charisma 10X idiots screaming yes.

As far as hogan, Andre the giant was brought to the ring on a fucking lift. He was gonna get to the mat one time for the pin. He could not stand back up again when he went down. I am pretty sure they had to slack the ring ropes just to get him in the ring.

Nope!!! I saw WM3 live. Everyone (except Utilmate Warrior) came to the ring on a lift (cart) cause it was so far from the entrance to the arenia to the ring and Vince thought it looked kool. No slack ropes for Andrea either. Andrea was having bad back issues by WM3 but he could still move pretty good. By the early 90's he was pretty much imobile but not at WM3.

Size has NO meaning in Pro Wrestling cause it's all a work (scripted, not real). Who wins is determined by who the booker (and sometimes fans) wants to win and not who should win. You keep talking about believable damage but there is no such thing in wrestling cause they aren't really hitting or kicking each other.

Surely you are just putting us on to get us to agrue with you, right???

 

[StanMarsh51]

You keep bringing up Brett Hart, he wrestled at 235-245. He wasnt wrestling at 205 like Bryan or CM Punk, Rey Mysterio at 175.

280-235 is much different than 300-205 or 500-205.

Hart also had more offense than kicks, he also had charisma 10X idiots screaming yes.

As far as hogan, Andre the giant was brought to the ring on a fucking lift. He was gonna get to the mat one time for the pin. He could not stand back up again when he went down. I am pretty sure they had to slack the ring ropes just to get him in the ring.

Sure Bret weighed more, but those guys I listed all weighed more than Brock, so in the end it kinda evens out.


And Bryan certainly does have a broad move-set (I mean, he was trained by Shawn Michaels), but the obvious issue is that WWE tends to simplify/dumb it down once many guys from the indies do get to WWE. Checkout some of Bryan's indie matches, where he did a lot more things than he does in WWE. The same could be said for CM Punk. HHH even said it in the podcast with Austin: WWE nowadays trains wrestlers their way, where often guys who were from the indies have to have to adapt to WWE's style of wrestling...and I think that's what happened to guys like Punk and Bryan, because they can certainly do a lot more moves than they do in WWE.

 

[OregonDucks]

You guys are over thinking this and giving wwe far too much credit to think they actually have thought this out.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Sure Bret weighed more, but those guys I listed all weighed more than Brock, so in the end it kinda evens out.


And Bryan certainly does have a broad move-set (I mean, he was trained by Shawn Michaels), but the obvious issue is that WWE tends to simplify/dumb it down once many guys from the indies do get to WWE. Checkout some of Bryan's indie matches, where he did a lot more things than he does in WWE. The same could be said for CM Punk. HHH even said it in the podcast with Austin: WWE nowadays trains wrestlers their way, where often guys who were from the indies have to have to adapt to WWE's style of wrestling...and I think that's what happened to guys like Punk and Bryan, because they can certainly do a lot more moves than they do in WWE.

WWE has them tone it down a bit cause of all the injuries the high flying/impact style casues (see Edge broken neck, etc...). Plus the high spots have much more impact if there are only a few per match and not high spot after high spot like they do on the indies. But this is nothing new. Hogan was a much different (technical style vs. brawling) wrestler in Japan than he was in the WWF.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

You guys are over thinking this and giving wwe far too much credit to think they actually have thought this out.

Vince is a big micro manager. So, I'm sure he has thought all this out or had his creative staff do it for him.

 

[futballiscool]

Hogan has said many times that going into the WrestleMania 3 match he was never completely sure that Andre would go along and let him win. And if Andre The Giant doesn't let you win, you have no chance whatsoever no matter how big you are!

I agree with all of the points you were making but just somethin to keep in mind with Hogan.. He constantly lies. Andre wasn't going to turn the match into a shoot and beatup Hulk. I've heard Hogan say those things in interviews and it's just to buildup the mythology of the match at WM3

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

I agree with all of the points you were making but just somethin to keep in mind with Hogan.. He constantly lies. Andre wasn't going to turn the match into a shoot and beatup Hulk. I've heard Hogan say those things in interviews and it's just to buildup the mythology of the match at WM3

I know Hogan "exjaggerates/lies" but there is a kernal of truth in what he said. Although, if Andrea hadn't agreed to do the job there wouldn't have been a match in the first place. I think Vince and Hogan weren't sure Andre would agree to the match in the first place. Once the match was pitched to Andrea and he agreed to do the match, they all knew Hogan was winning. I also think that Hogan adds this not just to build mythology but to distract from the fact Andrea was starting to hurt physically and wasn't as nimble in the ring as he once was. It's particially a cover for why Andre didn't do some of his usual moves.

 

[Judge Fudge]

my my my. What did i step into ?

D-Bry is ok with me. He comes from a different mold though. He is a guy that can go 60 minutes with a hose and make it watchable (ala Kirk Angel remember that). He may not have any charisma but he can talk decent (better than reigns who needs Vince to feed him lines).

Who is the next Flavor of the month IWC?

 

[jakedog56]

has nothing to do with anyones personal life, Shawn Michaels in the ring is what we should be concerned with. There were never any times where there were just no way when watching shawn in a match.

Except for when he came to the ring with that g@y-assed song playing. Horrible intro!

I do get your point though but it is not Bryan's fault if the WWE books him poorly. He should never go up against Big Show with the move set plan that they use but the WWE can't seem to help themselves with the underdog stuff. Think of all of the times we had to see big guys fall across the ropes so Rey could do his finisher for gods sake.

It still seems funny to me that you love Micheals but hate Bryan when so many aspects of their skill sets overlap though.

 

[LASports96]

Wrestling is fake... so anybody can win. And especially as noted if booked properly it's fine.

RAW was pretty good by RAW standards this week.

 

[futballiscool]

Wrestling is fake... so anybody can win. And especially as noted if booked properly it's fine.

This. Especially when someone as talented as Bryan is working the underdog role.

With that said I don't want to see the main event of WM switched back to back years

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

On paper, this honestly looks like the worst PPV since the launch of the WWE Network. Other than maybe Bryan vs Reigns or Cena vs Rusev there's nothing about this PPV that interests me. Wouldn't be surprised if the match between Paige & Nikki Bella turns out to be the high point of the PPV. Should've worked Rollins vs Ziggler into the PPV. Really sad how WWE PPV's have gone downhill since the WWE Network came out. It's honestly as if the WWE doesn't even try anymore.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Wrestling is fake... so anybody can win. And especially as noted if booked properly it's fine.

RAW was pretty good by RAW standards this week.

Very true but I believe the proper terms are scripted & choreographed, not fake.

Side note, this week's Raw will probably turn out to be a better show than Fast Lane.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Problem with Daniel Bryan isn't that he's too small or a douche, it's the fact that he's meant to be an underdog, but how could he remain an underdog when he beat Triple H, Randy Orton, & Batista to win the WWEWHC @ Wrestlemania? He's probably the best in ring performer (him or Seth Rollins), but the underdog story doesn't work anymore since he achieved the ultimate glory @ Wrestlemania.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Problem with Daniel Bryan isn't that he's too small or a douche, it's the fact that he's meant to be an underdog, but how could he remain an underdog when he beat Triple H, Randy Orton, & Batista to win the WWEWHC @ Wrestlemania? He's probably the best in ring performer (him or Seth Rollins), but the underdog story doesn't work anymore since he achieved the ultimate glory @ Wrestlemania.

Good point Doob. DB has outgrown the underdog role but WWE still tries to miscast him that way. Imagine how different it would've been if WWE had cast DB as the returning hero when he came back just before the Rumble. They could've built it up as the man that climbed the maintain and beat all the odds at WM30 is back and looking to do it again but this time he knows how to get it done and NO ONE will stop him. Not superman (Cena), not a beast (Brock), not the fuiture (Rollings), or the flavor of the month (Reigns). I could go on but there is no point. Just another example why Vince needs to retire and ride off into the sunset to play with his grandkids and leave running of WWE to the youinger members of his family (I include HHH in this) who have fresh ideas.