Off Topic Lounge

[redskinsfan]

your conduct ? say like obstructing justice could have an effect on punishment ? or how many times you have violated the law ?

if his play wasnt affected by the balls being deflated , then why do it ? because it does affect it and since 2007 it could have very well been the difference in many games

and how did under inflated balls help wrs hold onto ball when they are walloped . how did it reduce fumbles in RBS ?

i dont buy it doesnt affect the outcome or doesnt give an advantage . its poppycock , why do it if it doesnt help ?

that is the main question and why the rule is in place

Then let's go back to the pine tar rule in baseball. Why is still on the books when MLB clearly doesn't think it's a violation anymore?

And why are there degrees of crimes like murder? Because all crimes / murders aren't alike. And why do sentences wildly vary when defendants are convicted of the same crime? Because of reasons like the ones I've been discussing.

Again, we're not talking about whether Brady violated a rule. He did. It's the type of rule he violated and the impact on the game that are two big issues bearing on his punishment. And the fact that you can't articulate what effect, if any, the deflated balls had on the game is reason enough to show why the penalty was excessive.

 

[redskinsfan]

i am not going to parcel out which offense in society are this or that . the point is pointing out the offense of others arent defense for you

he should have gotten 4 games because he obstructed justice . the colts game wasnt the first time he pulled that and it wasnt the 1st time the pats have cheated .

they didnt learn from the first time so the next punishment was a lot harsher

the offense itself was minor but the rest of the stuff magnified it

i feel 4 games is about right as is the fine and the loss of draft picks . what should have happened is belichek needed to serve some time as well

i dont give a damn if an offense happens everyday or not if you are caught , you are caught period end of story nothing else to see . you pay the piper

so that is my stance and you are wasting your time trying to get me to change my stance because i will not

if it is reduced on appeal then fine i am ok with it but i am never ever going to accept the other people do it defense , or its a minor one , or it really really didnt hurt anything because if it didnt we wouldnt be here at this point would we

the rules are in place for a reason , if you break them you do so at your own risk

For the umpteeenth time, it's not the violation of the rule we're talking about, it's the punishment. As to that issue, it does matter that others commit jt and that it happens every day.

Here's a question I just asked you: can you adduce any proof that the deflated balls had any impact on the competitive aspect of the game? If you can't, which no one can, that's reason enough to show why the penalty was excesive.

 

[skinsdad62]

for the umpteenth time i am talking about the punishment and i agree with it

 

[redskinsfan]

for the umpteenth time i am talking about the punishment and i agree with it

If you are, all those other factors are relevant. MLB at least had the balls to admit that the pine tar rule was bogus in that particular case. As for this one, can you tell me what effect, if any, that the deflated balls had on the game? If you can't, the punishment can't stand as is.

 

[skinsdad62]

If you are, all those other factors are relevant. MLB at least had the balls to admit that the pine tar rule was bogus in that particular case. As for this one, can you tell me what effect, if any, that the deflated balls had on the game? If you can't, the punishment can't stand as is.

i told you the affects on the game and others

 

[Lonewate44]

If you are, all those other factors are relevant. MLB at least had the balls to admit that the pine tar rule was bogus in that particular case. As for this one, can you tell me what effect, if any, that the deflated balls had on the game? If you can't, the punishment can't stand as is.

Well this isnt MLB...ITs Football...2 entirely different sports... 2 differnt rule books...etc.........the biggest thing in this is the NOT Doing what they were supposed to as far as being honest and fortwrith with the investigation!!!

 

[redskinsfan]

i told you the affects on the game and others

You did not. And it's pretty clear that there was zero effect in the Colts game. The Pats put an old-fashioned beat down on them.

 

[redskinsfan]

Well this isnt MLB...ITs Football...2 entirely different sports... 2 differnt rule books...etc.........the biggest thing in this is the NOT Doing what they were supposed to as far as being honest and fortwrith with the investigation!!!

But the concept are the same. Unless there's an extreme case, it's hard to imagine how a pine tar or inflation issue will affect either game.

 

[skinsdad62]

You did not. And it's pretty clear that there was zero effect in the Colts game. The Pats put an old-fashioned beat down on them.

i most definitely did , it made it easier for brady to grip the ball and his wrs to hold onto it in bad weather or in absorbing blows , same with rbs and fumbles

that is how the game was affected and i stated that

and again since 2007 when this was going on dont tell me it had zero effect especially in close games

 

[Lonewate44]

But the concept are the same. Unless there's an extreme case, it's hard to imagine how a pine tar or inflation issue will affect either game.

well......whoever makes the rules have decided that it is an issue.....thus...when you are not going by the rule book you are cheating...and yes...he was over the rule book on the pine tar, was right to be thrown out, and MLB was wrong to overturn it....THE NFL unlike MLB didnt cave to the player

 

[redskinsfan]

i most definitely did , it made it easier for brady to grip the ball and his wrs to hold onto it in bad weather or in absorbing blows , same with rbs and fumbles

that is how the game was affected and i stated that

and again since 2007 when this was going on dont tell me it had zero effect especially in close games

I'm talking about how it affected the result. I know it allowed him to grip the ball better. My point is that even if he didn't do anything to the balls, the Pats win big anyways. And I don't think there's any disagreement on that.

 

[redskinsfan]

well......whoever makes the rules have decided that it is an issue.....thus...when you are not going by the rule book you are cheating...and yes...he was over the rule book on the pine tar, was right to be thrown out, and MLB was wrong to overturn it....THE NFL unlike MLB didnt cave to the player

Again, there's no doubt that there were rule violations in both instances. The issue is with the penalty. You can vindicate the rule and hold that there was a violation, but then intelligently apply the penalty to conform with the extent and nature of the wrong that was committed. In the pine tar incident, there was no way in hell that the extra pine tar gave George Brett any competitive advantage in crushing Goose Gossage's pitch over the right field Yankee Stadium wall. Similarly, as there is no evidence how this rule violation affected the result in the Colts game or any game for that matter, suspending Brady for a quarter of a season is clearly excessive.

 

[skinsdad62]

But the concept are the same. Unless there's an extreme case, it's hard to imagine how a pine tar or inflation issue will affect either game.

pine tar on a bat eh ? but the ball being mucked with does have an effect hence a football and a baseball . you dont throw bats around

and i told you how nwe for the 4th time

it affects the grip in any weather situation , a deflated ball is easier to catch and hold onto again in any weather situation and it makes it easier for ball carriers to secure the football

the rules are in place for a reason .

 

[redskinsfan]

pine tar on a bat eh ? but the ball being mucked with does have an effect hence a football and a baseball . you dont throw bats around

and i told you how nwe for the 4th time

it affects the grip in any weather situation , a deflated ball is easier to catch and hold onto again in any weather situation and it makes it easier for ball carriers to secure the football

the rules are in place for a reason .

Huh? How did the rule violation affect the result of the game? Yes, rules are there for a reason. Wells found that Brady violated them. But that doesn't mean you issue a quarter-season suspension for a violation that had no bearing on competitive play. You can issue a large fine, maybe a one-game suspension, etc. That way you vindicate the rule and the punishment fits a lot more with the crime.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'm talking about how it affected the result. I know it allowed him to grip the ball better. My point is that even if he didn't do anything to the balls, the Pats win big anyways. And I don't think there's any disagreement on that.

it did affect the result how do you know that a nervous wr didnt get a break by having an easier ball to catch or a fumble that didnt happen because the ball wasnt at league specs ?

how do you know that a colts wr let one slip through his fingers because he was playing with a legal ball or lucks passes were a little off because he played with a legal ball . how about a fumble that may not have happened had the ball been deflated

you have no way of knowing how that affects momentum field position how many points are scored

and again you cant be that naive to think this didnt happen before either . how many close games turned on things that did or didnt happen because teams had 2 different standards of balls

look if your standard is its ok to break the rules then fine its your standard . it isnt mine

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

if you dont understand the joe webb comparison i cant help you

yes DGF its a harsh reach , ok it is used to disparage Rg3's play .

right now he is about as effective a qb as webb /jackson/stewart .

that is his level of play , CRAP

you know its CRAP , I know its CRAP , ITS CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

the fact is joe webb couldnt play the position , jackson cant play the position , and stewart wasnt a pocket guy and at this point Rg3 cant play the position

do i need to trot out Rg3's game tapes to show you he cant play the position ? do you need to see they multitude of missed reads , poor passes un-needed sacks taken , confused drop backs staring at wrs who are open but not throwing it ?

the guy is playing like hot garbage .

if trotting out joe webb stats makes you feel better that Rg3 is a better passer then him then have at it , yeah Rg3 is a better passer then joe webb and tavaris jackson woohooo boy i feel better !!!

too bad he is, so far, a failure just like him

so let RG3 prove it on the field he is better then anyone because so far he is a colossal failure as a pro qb .

i will continue to bash him until he shows up on the field and PROVES otherwise

potential , upside, are for losers in year 4 . we should be talking about mastering the position not "gee i really really hope he learns how to drop back and throw correctly read defenses , studies film "

he is a bust

Calm down there big fella.

You are right, Griffin has played like crap. This is not news. But here's what he can do that Joe Webb can not do:

Hit what he is throwing at.

As I said the problems Griffin has MAY be correctable. Everything you just described fits under the heading "correctable". So there is still a slim chance. I'm not claiming it will happen, I agree it's a long shot, but it's at least possible.

With a guy like Joe Webb all the coaching and experience in the world won't change the fact that he simply can not deliver the ball. And that is job #1. He can make the perfect read, the perfect drop, perfect mechanics but if the ball is behind the receiver, which was often the case with Poor Joe Webb, none of the other stuff matters.

So you have one QB who is a 3 legged race horse, he never had a chance due to his limitations. You have another QB who has all the tools but needs to learn to play the position. To use your line if you can't see the difference between the 2 then I can't help you.

 

[skinsdad62]

Huh? How did the rule violation affect the result of the game? Yes, rules are there for a reason. Wells found that Brady violated them. But that doesn't mean you issue a quarter-season suspension for a violation that had no bearing on competitive play. You can issue a large fine, maybe a one-game suspension, etc. That way you vindicate the rule and the punishment fits a lot more with the crime.

i just told you for the 5th time how it affected the game . you just dont want to see it

 

[redskinsfan]

i just told you for the 5th time how it affected the game . you just dont want to see it

You haven't told me how it affected the result. How can you not get that?

 

[Dolemite censored]

I predicted about 4 games.

Should have bet that somewhere.

The punishment is about right.
I think the monetary fine and draft pick forfeiture also disciplined the organization correctly.

I'm ready to move on, but will stick around for the laughs.

 

[skinsdad62]

Calm down there big fella.

You are right, Griffin has played like crap. This is not news. But here's what he can do that Joe Webb can not do:

Hit what he is throwing at.

As I said the problems Griffin has MAY be correctable. Everything you just described fits under the heading "correctable". So there is still a slim chance. I'm not claiming it will happen, I agree it's a long shot, but it's at least possible.

With a guy like Joe Webb all the coaching and experience in the world won't change the fact that he simply can not deliver the ball. And that is job #1. He can make the perfect read, the perfect drop, perfect mechanics but if the ball is behind the receiver, which was often the case with Poor Joe Webb, none of the other stuff matters.

So you have one QB who is a 3 legged race horse, he never had a chance due to his limitations. You have another QB who has all the tools but needs to learn to play the position. To use your line if you can't see the difference between the 2 then I can't help you.

i see 3 years of a guy who cant take the proper number of steps in a prescribed drop back . i see a guy who is too chicken shit to throw the ball to a wide open guy when he needs too . i see a guy who has neglected film study for 3 years . i see a diva all too willing to point the finger at everyone else but himself

i dont want to hear about potential or upside that ship has sailed , the train has left the station

we re in year 4 and he cant play the position at a pro level let alone at an elite level his draft status indicates he should

that is un debatable and the fact is that my standard he is a bust . if you have a lesser standard then that is yours not mine

he is a bust until he does it on the field wrap yourself around joe webb if you want to and lose the real point , he is a bust