No criminal charges for Deshaun Watson

[Cincyfan78]

Once again, these were the questions posed....

What you are saying is Baker is going to start behaving the exact opposite as he has since college (maybe even HS) and not believe in himself? Do you think Baker believes he can have a great season if given a chance?

I think your question may be faulty.

I mean - He did transfer from Texas Tech to Oklahoma because he didn't get what he thought he deserved, no?

So, I mean - is it a stretch to think he can sit out, force a trade, because he's been treated in a manner that he feels like he doesn't deserve? I'd say, no - no it's not. You kind of just made my point for me since historically speaking - Baker has done what he thought was in his best interest by moving on rather than "betting" on himself and remaining with the same team.

 

[jarntt]

Because you put too much into Baker requesting a trade when it was clear Watson is the #1. Not sure why you ignore things would be different if Watson could not play for both the Browns and Baker.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Baker ask to be traded before the Browns even successfully acquired Watson?

 

[dtgold88]

Here's my thinking, though - whether they truly told him, or not, becomes nearly irrelevant IMO...

You don't date a girl, keep her around while actively looking for an upgrade in hopes that if the upgrade falls through she still wants to be with you. They should have been actively seeking a trade and understanding that if they were to land Watson, their leverage nearly goes to zero because they will have 2 "starting" QB's on 1 team - and that can't work.

If they were going to go all-in on Watson, they should have simply traded Baker first - yes, could have been a risk if they didn't land Watson - but if they were going to guarantee his entire salary - they had to know that he was likely going to jump at that, one would think.

Anyway - TLDR version - They knew they were done with Mayfield, and should have been more willing to budge early on in trade talks instead of getting stuck with him with zero leverage.

How do you know they were not actively looking for a trade before they acquired Watson? I mean, should they have made that public even though they didn't know they could acquire Watson?

Trade Baker before knowing they can get Watson? Now THAT would be completely foolish and they'd deserve any scrutiny they got for it had they not acquired Watson.

How do you know they knew they were done with Baker if they could not find a better alternative?

 

[Cincyfan78]

How do you know they were not actively looking for a trade before they acquired Watson? I mean, should they have made that public even though they didn't know they could acquire Watson?

Trade Baker before knowing they can get Watson? Now THAT would be completely foolish and they'd deserve any scrutiny they got for it had they not acquired Watson.

How do you know they knew they were done with Baker if they could not find a better alternative?

You keep only looking at things from 1 side - the Browns side. You have to remember, the girl you are dating isn't likely to be thrilled once she realizes you are looking to replace her. It's completely foolish to think that Baker was OK with being told (in your words) that they were going after Watson. Once that was made clear to him (as you say they did), it became only a matter of time before the team needs to unload him because the girl you are with isn't staying with you if you don't think she's good enough, or replace her completely.

If they looked to trade him early on - they clearly were asking too much. Instead of being flexible, they dug in their heals for whatever it is they felt he was worth to them, but failed to realize he wasn't worth the same thing to the league.

In either scenario you post - Baker wasn't likely to take the news well, and the relationship was likely beyond repair necessitating the need to move on from Mayfield - with, or without, Watson.

 

[jarntt]

Mayfield is 27, his best is yet to come.

Smack dab in his prime.

God I hope so for his sake

 

[DJ Fieri]

God I hope so for his sake

Almost got them to the AFC title game.

Farther than Dak has taken Dallas.

 

[dtgold88]

I think your question may be faulty.

I mean - He did transfer from Texas Tech to Oklahoma because he didn't get what he thought he deserved, no?

So, I mean - is it a stretch to think he can sit out, force a trade, because he's been treated in a manner that he feels like he doesn't deserve? I'd say, no - no it's not. You kind of just made my point for me since historically speaking - Baker has done what he thought was in his best interest by moving on rather than "betting" on himself and remaining with the same team.

I'd say it's you avoiding answering the question because to answer kind of goes against your other comments.

Baker went to Oklahoma to play and not sit. He was not getting a chance to play at TT.

 

[dtgold88]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Baker ask to be traded before the Browns even successfully acquired Watson?

He was being pro-active. Doesn't mean he'd have refused to play if no Watson deal...or with a Watson deal and Watson out for the year.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I never said Baker wants to be here and, in fact, have said he likely does not want to be here. What you are saying is Baker is going to start behaving the exact opposite as he has since college (maybe even HS) and not believe in himself? Do you think Baker believes he can have a great season if given a chance?

Should you answer that with the obvious answer is he then better off playing and playing well or sitting out?

Coming off the injury Baker is coming off of because he threw himself into a block to help a teammate gain a few extra yards, he is more likely to get hurt again if not brought back and healed properly, versus having a career year.

So why would he want to risk his one year before free agency playing for a team that disrespected him, doesn't believe in him, regardless of his personality? His agent is going to trump his personality since college, because this is now a business, not college or high school. There are millions on the table to be had or lost.

Right now, Baker is worth what he is getting paid, because that is the standard set forth by what the Browns were willing to sign him for. Right now, Baker is worth 18+ million. If he plays again, and doesn't h ave his heart into playing for a franchise he feels f'd him, then he is likely to play sloppy because he is trying not to get hurt again, or he does get hurt again. Either scenario means less money on t he table for his free agency period. He may not have a lot of offers right now for his services, but right before training camp where teams start to panic, he may see some extra value get pushed through. Baker on ANY TEAM besides the Browns where he is a starter is going to net him a better opportunity than risking it all for a team that threw him away.

I don't blame Baker. I would be pissed too. I understand why Cleveland wanted Watson, because Watson is very talented, but with that talent came a massive headache and a lot of resources, financial and draft.

You should be praying Baker never takes another snap for Cleveland, because if the opposite happens, and Baker balls out and plays lights out, has a chance to continue building relationships, you will divide the locker room, and the fan base will be screaming, see, we didn't need Watson's dumb ass. Now you are having to let Baker just walk, because there is no way in F you are going to franchise him at QB prices. You could not afford two QB's at that price tag just to hope to get something out of the guy. You should want to see him explode with another team, not with the Browns, because that would be the end of your entire damn front office, your chemistry on your team, and the fan base would be out raged.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'd say it's you avoiding answering the question because to answer kind of goes against your other comments.

Baker went to Oklahoma to play and not sit. He was not getting a chance to play at TT.

No, I think it answers it perfectly...he got treated poorly and took another option. He walked on at OU - so nothing was guaranteed.

So, your question was about him treating things the same - and I think this is the same - he has been treated poorly by the Browns and can easily bet on himself being good enough already to sit out most of this year, accrue a season, and still be worth a solid contract to some team out there.

History shows - he will make the change if not treated in a manner he feels he deserves. So, your own question works against you.

 

[jarntt]

all about yard and completion %, eh? Not TD to INT ratio? How about QBR and PFF having him in top 10 in 2020? All they do is watch the QB on every single play and determine his contribution - positive or negative - to that play. They will not credit the QB for, say, a completed pass that should have been a pick and they wont downplay him for the opposite.

I always found the PFF argument a little weak. You are assuming that the people PFF hired for minimum wage actually understand football and aren't watching tictok videos while grading each play. Even if they do understand, they have no idea what the play call was, if the receiver ran the wrong route or the QB threw to the wrong spot on a given play, if the QB was supposed to check off a receiver based on a particular coverage, if the QB screwed up his reads, if OBJ's father thought OBJ was open on the play, if baker sailed one a mile too high but luckily there was no deep safety to pick it off and certainly their thoughts on whether a completed pass should have been a pick are at least somewhat questionable. But, it's a stat I guess.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Coming off the injury Baker is coming off of because he threw himself into a block to help a teammate gain a few extra yards, he is more likely to get hurt again if not brought back and healed properly, versus having a career year.

So why would he want to risk his one year before free agency playing for a team that disrespected him, doesn't believe in him, regardless of his personality? His agent is going to trump his personality since college, because this is now a business, not college or high school. There are millions on the table to be had or lost.

Right now, Baker is worth what he is getting paid, because that is the standard set forth by what the Browns were willing to sign him for. Right now, Baker is worth 18+ million. If he plays again, and doesn't h ave his heart into playing for a franchise he feels f'd him, then he is likely to play sloppy because he is trying not to get hurt again, or he does get hurt again. Either scenario means less money on t he table for his free agency period. He may not have a lot of offers right now for his services, but right before training camp where teams start to panic, he may see some extra value get pushed through. Baker on ANY TEAM besides the Browns where he is a starter is going to net him a better opportunity than risking it all for a team that threw him away.

I don't blame Baker. I would be pissed too. I understand why Cleveland wanted Watson, because Watson is very talented, but with that talent came a massive headache and a lot of resources, financial and draft.

You should be praying Baker never takes another snap for Cleveland, because if the opposite happens, and Baker balls out and plays lights out, has a chance to continue building relationships, you will divide the locker room, and the fan base will be screaming, see, we didn't need Watson's dumb ass. Now you are having to let Baker just walk, because there is no way in F you are going to franchise him at QB prices. You could not afford two QB's at that price tag just to hope to get something out of the guy. You should want to see him explode with another team, not with the Browns, because that would be the end of your entire damn front office, your chemistry on your team, and the fan base would be out raged.

All this.

 

[DJ Fieri]

He's going to end up in Seattle.

Book it.

 

[jarntt]

Almost got them to the AFC title game.

Farther than Dak has taken Dallas.

I assume you meant to say farther than Carr has taken the Raiders? Either way, that's an asinine comment since they have the same number of post season wins and Dak got his team just as close to a conference title game as Baker did. How many playoff wins does Carr have?

 

[DJ Fieri]

I assume you meant to say farther than Carr has taken the Raiders? Either way, that's an asinine comment since they have the same number of post season wins and Dak got his team just as close to a conference title game as Baker did. How many playoff wins does Carr have?

None, but he also hasn't had the same level of talent Dallas has had.

Not even close.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Dak's lone playoff win was in 2018.....LOL.

 

[PDay8810]

Almost got them to the AFC title game.

Farther than Dak has taken Dallas.

Wrong

One wildcard playoff win is the same distance to a title game for both conference.

I still think you'd look smarter if you just read the threads. You weaken yourself with the Dallas envy.

 

[PDay8810]

None, but he also hasn't had the same level of talent Dallas has had.

Not even close.

Too funny

This is another example of your opinion being based on other opinions

 

[PDay8810]

Dak's lone playoff win was in 2018.....LOL.

You mean the 4th round offensive rookie of the year ?

What were the NFL expectations for Mayfield and Carr.

BUT YOU LAUGH AT PRESCOTT DUE TO SUPERIOR TALENT

You must be a closet Eagle or Redskins fan.

 

[dtgold88]

Coming off the injury Baker is coming off of because he threw himself into a block to help a teammate gain a few extra yards, he is more likely to get hurt again if not brought back and healed properly, versus having a career year.

So why would he want to risk his one year before free agency playing for a team that disrespected him, doesn't believe in him, regardless of his personality? His agent is going to trump his personality since college, because this is now a business, not college or high school. There are millions on the table to be had or lost.

Right now, Baker is worth what he is getting paid, because that is the standard set forth by what the Browns were willing to sign him for. Right now, Baker is worth 18+ million. If he plays again, and doesn't h ave his heart into playing for a franchise he feels f'd him, then he is likely to play sloppy because he is trying not to get hurt again, or he does get hurt again. Either scenario means less money on t he table for his free agency period. He may not have a lot of offers right now for his services, but right before training camp where teams start to panic, he may see some extra value get pushed through. Baker on ANY TEAM besides the Browns where he is a starter is going to net him a better opportunity than risking it all for a team that threw him away.

I don't blame Baker. I would be pissed too. I understand why Cleveland wanted Watson, because Watson is very talented, but with that talent came a massive headache and a lot of resources, financial and draft.

You should be praying Baker never takes another snap for Cleveland, because if the opposite happens, and Baker balls out and plays lights out, has a chance to continue building relationships, you will divide the locker room, and the fan base will be screaming, see, we didn't need Watson's dumb ass. Now you are having to let Baker just walk, because there is no way in F you are going to franchise him at QB prices. You could not afford two QB's at that price tag just to hope to get something out of the guy. You should want to see him explode with another team, not with the Browns, because that would be the end of your entire damn front office, your chemistry on your team, and the fan base would be out raged.

you are saying what you believe, not what Baker believes (or what you think he believes). If Baker and his agent believe he can play why would they decide sitting is better for him?

I also don't blame Baker for feeling how he does. I don't really blame anyone for feeling how they do.

I hope he does not take a snap but not for the reason you suggest. I hope he doesn't because Watson got a short suspension or no suspension. I don't care what the fans think, and I doubt the Browns care either. If Baker plays and plays well that's great for the team and kooky talk to think otherwise. The players will be thrilled to win games and ride the storm with Watson out. Do you really think they'd prefer a 6-11 season with the backup over - gasp - a playoff season? They can figure it out after the season is over what to do.