NinerSickness, Eric Reid...?

[deep9er]

No but, they know Crabs prior to last season had been labeled as an being an "injury prone" player. They know Boldin is not a long term answer, they know if Crabs were to stay with Kaep a year longer, he woul have produced gaudy numbers (please see his last 6-8 games of the season with Kaep) - which in fact would have made signing or extending him an extremely difficul / borderline impossible task. Thus we needed to make plans for his departure if it came to that...

It's not a matter of forecasting an injury it's stategically forecasting and planning for what we are used to. A healthy 16 game season Crabtree is an anomaly. Are we really suprised that he got hurt?

our FO did strategically forecast ahead, they planned ahead and forecasted Safety.

we were 'brainwashed' prior to the draft, brainwashed to think all these safeties are the same, are interchangable. so we buy it and play fantasy football draft....slide safety.

btw - earlier you said the issue wasn't Reid, but that we could've drafted another player with more value.

 

[BINGO]

The point is you can literally do this little exercise with every single position on the team and go back and say this is who we should have drafted because this guy got injured. It's pretty ridiculous. WR was well below FS and D-line for need.

Also - we drafted a TE in the second and a WR in the fourth, so it's not like the passing game was neglected in this draft.

Not many were thrilled on trading up to get Reid, but we had real holes to fill at FS and DE. The way we did it may have been in question, but drafting a WR in the first would have been a luxury.

No, you're acting like I wasn't advocating for players like Patterson before the injury took place. Furthermore, you cannot do that for every "position". It makes no sense to do it for QB, or a MLB for instance.

And just because a position was addressed in the draft, it doesn't mean that the position was NOT neglected. Patton is not addressing the "WR Position" as you're making it sound to be when considering who we drafted and most importantly whom we could have had in that position had we addressed it earlier.

Drafting a WR in the first would not have been a luxury unlesss Baalke knows definitely that Boldin has 4 good years left in him; AND Crabtree has a place here with us - he fits our long term plan (extending him definitively).

 

[-AC-]

Just like nobody could have predicted Crabtree's injury, they also could not have predicted Keenan Allen falling to the 3rd round...

"Could've, would've, and should'ves" as well as "I told you so" don't really mean jack diddly when hindsight is 20-20...

This team is still loaded, and players will need to step up. Injuries are a part of the game, and we all know that...

 

[BINGO]

pre-injury its possible we wouldn't be able to keep crabtree, so if the right wr was there we should have taken him.

Exactly! We did not do that. Instead we got a safety, a position we could have certainly addressed at a later round with almost the same skill set as Reid brings to the table. People are really underrating the 2013 safety class.

 

[BINGO]

What I am trying to say is that picking a WR in the first round is not always the best thing. I mean looking back over the last 15 years, I would say only about 14 of the 58 taken in the first rounds have been stars. A majority of them have been giant busts. Unless you felt a WR was some can't miss talent like Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald in this draft, why reach and take them high when you can get them in later rounds like we did in Patton, a guy who doesn't have the drop percentage that Patterson has? Also, we already have a lot of WR on the roster, half of them are hurt right now but its not like we don't have talent already there. I know Patterson has the freakish talent but why take a chance when clearly Safety was our biggest need along with D Line Depth going into this. As was stated before, they felt Reid was the best bet and could fit our system perfectly. I really like the way the draft worked out, we went and addressed our more serious needs right now which was the defensive side of the ball. We needed depth and young talent there. I would rather see the Niners trade up next year to get Marquise Lee if they are going to trade up for a WR in a draft. At least he produced consistently throughout college.

Did you do the same research for the safety position? How about QB? RBs? TEs? Which position is an "Absolute" in terms of what we should address in the first round?

Again, just because safety was a "need" it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to act wreckless and draft for need when a better player was available at that spot.

It's funny that you say that we can get a player (Patton) at a later round, but we cannot do the same when it comes to the safety position? for real...? Tell me this, how many safeties in today's NFL are starting that were drafted outside of the first round?

 

[deep9er]

No, you're acting like I wasn't advocating for players like Patterson before the injury took place. Furthermore, you cannot do that for every "position". It makes no sense to do it for QB, or a MLB for instance.

And just because a position was addressed in the draft, it doesn't mean that the position was NOT neglected. Patton is not addressing the "WR Position" as you're making it sound to be when considering who we drafted and most importantly whom we could have had in that position had we addressed it earlier.

Drafting a WR in the first would not have been a luxury unlesss Baalke knows definitely that Boldin has 4 good years left in him; AND Crabtree has a place here with us - he fits our long term plan (extending him definitively).

Bingo - prior to the draft we had already signed Boldin, are you arguing WR was more of a need than Safety?

if you're saying a WR had more value than Reid, it would make sense. but WR wasn't a larger need in April.


guess i should go further back and re-read?

 

[BINGO]

our FO did strategically forecast ahead, they planned ahead and forecasted Safety.

we were 'brainwashed' prior to the draft, brainwashed to think all these safeties are the same, are interchangable. so we buy it and play fantasy football draft....slide safety.

btw - earlier you said the issue wasn't Reid, but that we could've drafted another player with more value.

And I still stand by that. Reid is a very good player. But no way on earth would I take him ahead of Rhodes, Patterson at that spot. Even when you don't trade up, I still think the two players the Ravens, and Jags selected back to back were of equal value to Reid. To me, Vaccaro was clear cut #1 safety in the draft. The 3 other guys were bunched together (Reid, Elam, Cyprien).

 

[deep9er]

And I still stand by that. Reid is a very good player. But no way on earth would I take him ahead of Rhodes, Patterson at that spot. Even when you don't trade up, I still think the two players the Ravens, and Jags selected back to back were of equal value to Reid. To me, Vaccaro was clear cut #1 safety in the draft. The 3 other guys were bunched together (Reid, Elam, Cyprien).

ok, just making sure i recalled it correctly.

again, i'm ok with your opinion here, said it in April. but wanted to make sure as i continue along in this thread.

 

[NinerSickness]

Bingo, you're talking to the guy who wanted the Niners to TRADE Michel Crabtree. I have complete confidence my boy Eric Reid wil be one of the best safeties in the NFC by his 2nd year.

But the real mistake the Niners made, IMO, was not signing DHB or even Mike Wallace. Instead of cutting Manningham, they restructured his contract & stuck with him rather than going the FA route. Now they're pretty screwed at the WR position (again), and if Crabs doesn't make it back to his usual self by the end of the season, I'm not extremely confident the Niners will be picking 32nd in the 2014 draft.

 

[NinerSickness]

As a side note, I would still much rather have Corey Lemonier than Keenan Allen.

 

[BINGO]

As a side note, I would still much rather have Corey Lemonier than Keenan Allen.

Or even Demantre Moore? That 3rd round pick killed us man.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

No, you're acting like I wasn't advocating for players like Patterson before the injury took place. Furthermore, you cannot do that for every "position". It makes no sense to do it for QB, or a MLB for instance.

And just because a position was addressed in the draft, it doesn't mean that the position was NOT neglected. Patton is not addressing the "WR Position" as you're making it sound to be when considering who we drafted and most importantly whom we could have had in that position had we addressed it earlier.

Drafting a WR in the first would not have been a luxury unlesss Baalke knows definitely that Boldin has 4 good years left in him; AND Crabtree has a place here with us - he fits our long term plan (extending him definitively).

I'm not making it out to sound like anything. This is completely the way you're reading into it. Just understand that if we sat tight, I was on board with Hopkins at the bottom of the first if he was there when our pick rolled around, but that pick would have been to maximize value over drafting for need. And there were a lot of different options that would have been available to make it hard to turn in that pick based on value lining up with need (FS and DE prospects).

Our real life actual needs were addressed with the first two picks. Just because a position will potentially become a need in the future, does not make it a position of need right now. That is why taking a WR this year early would have been a luxury.

If Boldin shows signs of slowing down, he could be replaced next year by another short term rental. Or we can draft a WR high at that time. Or we could be able to sit tight because one of the other WR's would have emerged. How do you know for certain that none of Manningham, Jenkins, and/or Patton will step up and become a viable option?

 

[dredinis21]

Or even Demantre Moore? That 3rd round pick killed us man.

I totally disagree. Lemonier over Allen based on their upside. Dematre Moore? No thanks. Too much baggage with that one. Allen with his ceiling being Crabtree vs. Lemonier whose ceiling is Terrell Suggs pre-achilles injury. If Lemonier develops, we have our next piece of trade bait in either Aldon or more likely Brooks.

 

[NinerSickness]

Or even Demantre Moore? That 3rd round pick killed us man.

I'd take Lemonier over Moore any day. Lemonier has everything you would want in an OLB prospect. 20 years old; Amazing first step; long arms & good upper body strength / hand useage; good work ethic; productive in a short college career (depsite being on a dumpster fire of an Auburn team last year).

Meanwhile, Moore has limited up side. All he did in college was bull rush, and he's not going to be able to get away with that in the NFL. And he was apparently one of the bigger dummies in the draft. He was good value in 3rd round, but I don't expect him to be the next JPP by any means.

I agree with Dre' on this one.

 

[deep9er]

Or even Demantre Moore? That 3rd round pick killed us man.

similar to Reid.....because of Lemonier the player, or we could've gotten more value in someone else?

 

[deep9er]

I totally disagree. Lemonier over Allen based on their upside. Dematre Moore? No thanks. Too much baggage with that one. Allen with his ceiling being Crabtree vs. Lemonier whose ceiling is Terrell Suggs pre-achilles injury. If Lemonier develops, we have our next piece of trade bait in either Aldon or more likely Brooks.

can't say who has more upside, but pass rushers are key to the defense. so yeah, if Lemonier develops, we've added a HUGE piece on D. we'd keep both Aldon and Lemonier......assuming its cap possible?

 

[dredinis21]

Deep, how does upside NOT play into how you view a player?

 

[deep9er]

Deep, how does upside NOT play into how you view a player?

I don't know which one of these two has more upside, not upside doesn't play.

well, guess i could throw out an opinion like everyone else, pretend i can evaluate prospects? but since that is anybody's projection going forward, i TRY to let it play out.

 

[-AC-]

Or even Demantre Moore? That 3rd round pick killed us man.

That 3rd didn't' "kill us"... We could have very easily selected Quinton Patten with that 3rd round pick. As it stands Patton also a guy who was rated way higher fell to us in the 4th... Its a wash at this point...

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Safety value was actually pretty tough to pin down in this one even though it was a rare deep draft with a lot of talent. Vaccarro might be real good but doesn't fit the scheme and was gone early. That could have saved us the 3rd if he lasted until Cin, but maybe not because Reid would be coming off very shortly after anyway. Cyprien is a wildcard, and I'd hate to be stuck with Elam and Whitner. So I see why we really wanted Reid. Also the actual trade value we got was very good (actually saved us a 5th from what Chi wanted one pick later).

Just say this worked out where we move up a few spots for Hopkins or Patterson. Then we'd be backtracking to get high value at both S and DE. We'd get a safety (but not Reid). Then we probably miss out on Carradine, unless we coughed up the low second and third anyway to get him. So what happens is we end up not getting our TE who has the best chance out of all the offensive players to get on the field this year, or we miss out on our DE this year which we really needed to come away with.