NFL Media

[Jikkle]

I should be more clear in that I'm not picking on Ayanbadejo or the issues of gays in sports specifically but just using that as a recent example.

My gripe with PFT it's obvious they have a liberal agenda which let me state is fine as I would have the same issue if it was a conservative agenda and they are bent on pushing it onto people.

And that's where I take issue because my feelings is if you're a site that's reporting sports news that's what you should stick too and focus on and basically stay neutral when it comes to a players opinions and beliefs.

Yes the issue of gays in the NFL is news and I don't have a problem with it when it's actual news. But I don't need a front page report everytime Ayanbadejo or a player uses the word gay in a sentence.

Ironically the biggest obstacle for a gay player coming out is the very media that's championing their cause. Because the media would make the issue more about the player being gay than whatever they do on the field which would just be a colossal distraction and headache for a team. Teams hate media distractions and the last thing guys on a team want to do is ask a million questions about a fellow players sexuality. And let's not even get into if that player ever is released or loses a starting job.

A gay player is just like any other player in that all they want to is play ball and make their money and they know there is 0 benefit to them coming out as gay because that's not going to help them with either one.

 

[MHSL82]

...You're right people can choose to be veg, animal rights hippies, etc, because they want to live that life; it is up to the individual to talk about their hobbies or beliefs, but gay people don't have that same option. As you said, gay people aren't necessarily treated the same as straight people because being gay is a stigma in many areas... especially sports.

Although, with Cully's comments on gay players, or Tim Hardaway (one of my fav NBA players) making anti-gay remarks, they bring the discussion into the sports world. I understand if you'd rather not hear that referred to as "sports news" either, but it is wrong that there is a stigma against gay players. Being gay doesn't hurt a player's ability to run or jump, so why is being openly gay in the sports world so wrong to some people? When so much of the general population is gay, it isn't fair that sports stars may have to lie about who they are just so they aren't alienated by teammates who focus on that 1 issue...

Gay people aren't going to go away, so acting like they don't exist is silly, and asking them to hide who they are, or lie about it, is both disrespectful and insulting. Maybe gay players shouldn't have a press conference about it, but it's almost a necessity because there are no other openly gay players...

I agree with you, I was just saying what I thought they felt. I only responded because you said it wasn't political to be gay and I don't think anyone was talking about one's right to be gay. They aren't speaking against gay people or gay people being gay, having their partners, husbands, wives, or whatnot. Heck, I don't think they (Sportshoopla folk) are speaking against gay people speaking up at all. I think they are tired of everyone talking about it, for and against, and the headlines.

I was saying that it was possible to be gay and not talk about it, just date the guy. That's what some want them to do. I didn't mean to imply that they could do it without negative consequences. I understand that they can't just do it and not get criticized, mocked, blacklisted, or whatever. I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with them that they should stop talking about it.

In fact, I don't think people here (Sportshoopla) have a problem if a gay athlete talks about it if they don't hold a press conference or it's not on the main page before the draft. But a non-gay player saying it, putting that as a main story, is good for the cause, but annoys some. Those some may agree with the points but are tired of hearing it. I can assure you that they are tired of Culliver or Tim Hardaway's comments, too.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

What I would say is that the offseason, save for FA, the Draft, etc, is basically a slow new day that lasts for 6 months.

I hear what you guys are saying, and understand a bit better, so thanks. But if our options for non FA/Draft news during the offseason is between, say, Ayanbadiggerydoo posturing as some sort of gay Abraham Lincoln, or a round the clock Tebow/Brett Favre news ticker, I'll take the former any day of the week.

I think "out" players will add an interesting element to sports, but that's because I come from a background of sociology.

 

[NinerSickness]

---some sort of gay Abraham Lincoln

Or Gaybraham Lincoln?

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Or Gaybraham Lincoln?

 

[Jikkle]

Snyder says Redskins will never change name | ProFootballTalk

PFT again trying to be political champions.

Every time there is something to do with the Redskins name they plaster it on the front page.

Just by looking at the comments section it's pretty obvious most of the readers and fans could care less about the name.

 

[NinerSickness]

Snyder says Redskins will never change name | ProFootballTalk

Good for him! Unless you're 200 years old, the term "Redskin" is not a racial slur. I've never once heard of the term "Redskin" being used even remotely in a negative connotation in my entire life.

 

[imac_21]

Good for him! Unless you're 200 years old, the term "Redskin" is not a racial slur. I've never once heard of the term "Redskin" being used even remotely in a negative connotation in my entire life.

I guess that means that the European settlers were successful in wiping out native culture in North America.

So yes, good for Dan Snyder. Your ancestors wiped out theirs, so you can be disrespectful.

 

[I_am_1z]

Or Gaybraham Lincoln?

The irony is Abraham Lincoln really slept with men...

 

[NinerSickness]

So yes, good for Dan Snyder. Your ancestors wiped out theirs, so you can be disrespectful.

Disrespectful? Pfft! Lame. The term "Redskin" is not disrespectful in the least. It wasn't even a slur 200 years ago; it was a way of describing someone. And it sure as hell isn't a slur today.

It would essentially be the same thing as if I were describing someone to the police and said the guy was a brown-skinned fellow (if he were from Yemen or something).

This is 2 things. (1) Some people who are looking for a reason to be indignant / offended about something and (2) people who want to piggy-back on that indignation.

 

[SeattleNinersFan]

Disrespectful? Pfft! Lame. The term "Redskin" is not disrespectful in the least. It wasn't even a slur 200 years ago; it was a way of describing someone. And it sure as hell isn't a slur today.

It would essentially be the same thing as if I were describing someone to the police and said the guy was a brown-skinned fellow (if he were from Yemen or something).

This is 2 things. (1) Some people who are looking for a reason to be indignant / offended about something and (2) people who want to piggy-back on that indignation.

That may be possible but I highly doubt it with as much racism that I have seen in this world against all ethnicities. While I would love to believe that the people of the 1600-1700 were more intelligent than the people today with regards to just describing someone vs. demeaning someone based on their differences, I would be lying to myself. Unfortunately I think it is more likely that the term started from the original European traders that called Native American "Red Indians" to differentiate them from India Indians. That was shortened to redskins as a derogatory term.

There is also some speculation that the term was used again when referencing the bounties on killing native Americans, specifically the scalps, ears and heads that were handed in to the government for payments.

While I do believe that most of the time it is not the specific words that you say but in what manner and intent you use it in; it is true that a word, phrase or image can take on additional meaning when used a specific way over a long period of time,IE decades, or tied to horrific events or policies. I also believe that stereotypical caricatures, IE blackface, can be highly offensive and demeaning.

The way that "Redskins" is used in this case seems to be in the stereotypical caricature vein instead of honoring a true native American tribe or person so I can see how it could be offensive to some even though it is not used in a manner meant to be demeaning or offensive.

I did laugh though when D. Snyder said there was to much "honor" associated with the redskins name for him to change it. He had to be PC in order to protect a non PC brand; just imagine if he said "money" instead, that would have been classic.

 

[NinerSickness]

The way that "Redskins" is used in this case seems to be in the stereotypical caricature vein instead of honoring a true native American tribe or person so I can see how it could be offensive to some even though it is not used in a manner meant to be demeaning or offensive.

I did laugh though when D. Snyder said there was to much "honor" associated with the redskins name for him to change it. He had to be PC in order to protect a non PC brand; just imagine if he said "money" instead, that would have been classic.

That's a good point about the "honor" comment. I think that's just as silly a notion as saying it's a slur. It's neither an honour nor a slur. It was just a catchy name on which the team settled a long time ago. Is the word "laker" a slur against people who live near the Great Lakes? No. It's just a catchy name. NOBODY on planet earth uses the word "Redskin" as a slur.

And it pisses me off when people attach the word "racist" to something that isn't the least bit racist because takes all meaning away from the word and marginalizes any response against something that actually is racist (like the displacement of Hmong people in Asia for example).

 

[Hangman]

I don't understand why there obsession with not offending people. People get offended by way too much. They need to grow a pair and just ignore the stuff that "offends" them. But, they love being "victims" too much to do that. Instead they try to change everyone's words. Which doesn't do shit as word changes don't change mindsets. Also, trying to make a derogatory term for the person who is offensive is just doing the same exact thing that they were against in the first place. Its just a bunch of words. Learn to deal with it.

 

[Jikkle]

The word is more slang than slur and really been long since anyone really associates or uses the term in reference to Native Americans. I would venture to guess if you did a poll about on what's the first thing that pops into your head when you hear the term "Redskins" it would mostly be the football team.

It liken it to the term "Jap" from back in the WWII days. Some people consider it an offensive term to this day when it's really just short for Japanese.

I think in both cases they are thought of as offensive because of the time period they were used as those ethnicities weren't exactly the most popular at the time so typically there was nothing positive said with it.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I don't understand why there obsession with not offending people. People get offended by way too much. They need to grow a pair and just ignore the stuff that "offends" them. But, they love being "victims" too much to do that. Instead they try to change everyone's words. Which doesn't do shit as word changes don't change mindsets. Also, trying to make a derogatory term for the person who is offensive is just doing the same exact thing that they were against in the first place. Its just a bunch of words. Learn to deal with it.

Let me preface this with saying that I have quite a bit of Native blood in my veins, and I grew up basically on a reservation. I am not offended by the Redskins name but I completely see why others are.

The above quote isn't true at all. How would you like it if there were sports teams that are named after a racial slur? It is basically a slap in the face every time they take the field. What happened to the Native Americans gets swept under the rug and nobody ever talks about it, while they make such a huge deal out of any other slight against other races. What happened to the Natives was just as bad or worse than what happened or what is happening to other races, yet they have sports teams that still have a slight against them as a mascot to a fucking team. It's like someone bangs your wife and breaks up your family, and then goes to your house and shows everyone pictures of it. What if a team was called the Arizona Wetbacks? The Atlanta Uncle Toms? Redskins might not hold as much weight as those others, but that is because they are a lot newer and in the spotlight a whole lot more. People would be up in arms even if those teams were around for a really long time. These aren't local restaurants, they are teams in a national spotlight.

It is not about growing a pair and not letting things offend them. It is about honor in a different way than Snyder is talking about. But like I said, I am not offended by these team names because I have so many other things to be offended about, like Lady Gaga or Shia Lebouf. Just tossing this out there because I completely understand.

 

[Hangman]

Let me preface this with saying that I have quite a bit of Native blood in my veins, and I grew up basically on a reservation. I am not offended by the Redskins name but I completely see why others are.

The above quote isn't true at all. How would you like it if there were sports teams that are named after a racial slur? It is basically a slap in the face every time they take the field. What happened to the Native Americans gets swept under the rug and nobody ever talks about it, while they make such a huge deal out of any other slight against other races. What happened to the Natives was just as bad or worse than what happened or what is happening to other races, yet they have sports teams that still have a slight against them as a mascot to a fucking team. It's like someone bangs your wife and breaks up your family, and then goes to your house and shows everyone pictures of it. What if a team was called the Arizona Wetbacks? The Atlanta Uncle Toms? Redskins might not hold as much weight as those others, but that is because they are a lot newer and in the spotlight a whole lot more. People would be up in arms even if those teams were around for a really long time. These aren't local restaurants, they are teams in a national spotlight.

It is not about growing a pair and not letting things offend them. It is about honor in a different way than Snyder is talking about. But like I said, I am not offended by these team names because I have so many other things to be offended about, like Lady Gaga or Shia Lebouf. Just tossing this out there because I completely understand.

Exactly what I am talking about. Grow a pair. They are just a couple of assholes. Wetback, uncle tom, beaner, nip, slope, slant, honky, cracker, raghead, ****er, fag, homo ect... are just words. There might be a feeling behind the words from the person saying the words, but they are still only words. By changing the word, the feeling behind the word stays the same.

If a team was named the wetbacks and you don't like it, don't route for them.

Stanford is an example of political correctness gone wrong. What is wrong with the name Indians? Now they are a color because they were so afraid someone would be offended by something else.

 

[MHSL82]

Disrespectful? Pfft! Lame. The term "Redskin" is not disrespectful in the least. It wasn't even a slur 200 years ago; it was a way of describing someone. And it sure as hell isn't a slur today.

It would essentially be the same thing as if I were describing someone to the police and said the guy was a brown-skinned fellow (if he were from Yemen or something).

This is 2 things. (1) Some people who are looking for a reason to be indignant / offended about something and (2) people who want to piggy-back on that indignation.

Some people join in because it makes them feel or look compassionate. This is often good, but it isn't always truly offended. No one would admit it and some wouldn't even know their motivations.

 

[MHSL82]

Stanford is an example of political correctness gone wrong. What is wrong with the name Indians? Now they are a color because they were so afraid someone would be offended by something else.

I am afraid one day some group will succeed in forcing the University of Utah to remove the Utes name. There have been several attempts, mostly from non-Native Americans trying to be PC. They are really just telling Native Americans what they should be offended about. Maybe that offends Mative Americans to be toldwhat they should be insulted about?

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Good for him! Unless you're 200 years old, the term "Redskin" is not a racial slur. I've never once heard of the term "Redskin" being used even remotely in a negative connotation in my entire life.

That's not true. It might not have started as a racial slur, but that is what it became. The origin is thought to have come about by the Natives themselves, while others think it was used in terms for bounties against Natives. Just like the Swastika was originally used by many cultures meaning things like life,sun, strength etc. but you would never associate it with that now. The term Redskin ended up being used regularly as a slur, even in books. Calling them Redskin Devils, and Greasy Redskins etc. It might have started as a term of honor, but that isn't what it became.

 

[Jikkle]

The term Redskin ended up being used regularly as a slur, even in books. Calling them Redskin Devils, and Greasy Redskins etc. It might have started as a term of honor, but that isn't what it became.

But is the term "Redskin" by itself a slur?

What I mean is you can make a lot of things sound like a slur if you add the right adjectives or context to it.

Like if I said "All those stupid Mexicans are taking all of our jobs" makes it sounds the term Mexican is a slur when it's really not. Yes the statement would be a derogatory remark but the actual word Mexican wouldn't be offensive word.

I just consider and think of the term Redskin as more as slang than slur like how we call African Americans black, Caucasians white, Latinos brown, and Asian's as yellow. It's just nowadays the more non PC way to refer to them would be Indians and the term has lost it's use in today's English language.

In context of the actual football team I wouldn't go as far as saying it honors Native Americans but I don't think it's intended to be a slight against them either. I mean who would name their team after something they don't like or hate?