NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah that is the thing.

No small market team should ever be expected to spend with the big boys. Lindor and Ramirez were always going to end up on another team at some point, but damn.

When you have the horses that Cleveland had, you have to willing to spend a little over the normal budget for a couple years to win. It could be 30 years before Cleveland assembles another core with that much talent.

Hey lets just throw in Cookie for shits and gigs...wtf

 

[Shanemansj13]

It teally makes you appreciate an owner that is willing to spend. Gilbert is adick but the man is willing to spend. Until the Dolans sell, the Indians aren’t doing shit.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lindor deal expected and I've learned to trust our FO as they usually do well in deals like this. They acquired lesser known guys at time like Kluber and Clevinger in these deals. Also acquired Brantley as a PTBNL (though whiffed on the big fish, Laporta, in that deal), Carrasco, Sizemore, Santana, Gomes, etc.

But sickening they had a contending team and took payroll down from around $133 mil a few years ago to currently less than $40 mil. Can they spend like NY/LA? Nope. But really too much to ask they be league avg. in a contending window?

yah....Indians have won the most games in the AL over the last 8 seasons. They will figure it out- but it does suck to see Lindor go. The payroll is a joke right now.

As you said- their history on the deals they have made is out of this world though.

-Going way back- Bartolo Colon for Sizemore, Phillips and Cliff Lee is one of the most one-sided trades in MLB history. Sizemore was on a HOF track before getting hurt. Phillips is a fringe HOF'er. Cliff Lee was a top pitcher and CY Young winner. "A+++"

Ben Broussard for Asdrubal Cabrera..."B+"

Ryan Dreese and Einar Diaz for Travis Hafner...."A-"

Chuck Finley (at the end of the line) for Coco Crisp "B"

Eduardo Perez for Shin Soo Choo....."B+"

-Casey Blake for Carlos Santana---...."A-"

More recently:

-4 months of CC Sabathia for 6 years of Michael Brantley (and Matt LaPorta)- "A-"

-1 year of Cliff Lee for 6 years of Carlos Carrasco (and Jason Knapp who got hurt)- "A"

-Vinnie Pestano for Mike Clevinger in 2014...."A"

-One year of Shin Soo Choo for Trevor Bauer 5 years of Trevor Bauer...."A"

-Jake Westbrook for Corey Kluber...."A++"

-1.5 yrs of Bauer for Franmil Reyes, Logan Allen, Scott Moss...."B+ -at least"

-1.5 years of Clevinger (who wont even pitch next year with injuries) for 6 players- including Quintrell, Naylor, and 4 solid prospects (too early to give a definitive grade but this will age very well).

They just drafted Bieber, Plesac and Civale in the same draft.

the more recent drafting- and the player evaluation, trades and player development the Indians do are the reason they have the best record in the AL over the last 8 years.

There is a lot to build on right now too. The rotation is young, cheap and deep. Bieber, Plesac, Civale, McKenzie, Quintrell, Moss, Allen, are all major league level talents. Espino, Hankins, and Cantillo are years away but highly regarded and are going through the best developmental staff in baseball for pitchers.

Nolan Jones is their best prospect, has the best eye in the minors and is going to rake.


It wouldnt even surprise me if they contended for a playoff spot this year despite all the upheaval. I definitely dont expect them to be down long.

They have arguably the best front office in baseball- even if they do have a cheap skate sonva bitch owner. At least he hires the right peoples and lets them do their jobs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

just as an example.

they trade Ben Broussard- a middling first basemen for Choo.

get a few very good years out of Choo.

Trade him before he gets too expensive for Trevor Bauer and some other stuff.

get a few good years out of Trevor Bauer- trade him at the height of value and get 5 years of control of Franmil Reyes, and 2 guys that will be in major league rotation someday in Allen and Moss.


same with Clev.

trade Vinnie Pestano for Clevinger.

Develop Clevinger- get his value up- get a few very good years out of him- and trade him for a starting 1st basemen, a former top 10 pick in Quintrell that they believe they can continue to develop- and a handful of other pretty solid prospects.


Chernoff and Antonneti just had the Mets beg them to come there---they said no. That should tell you something.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sexton out now. No point in even watching this team play...they aren’t the same team. They are starting d-league guys and bench warmers

 

[WiggyRuss]

not that i see them doing it- but id be interested to see what Kluber's price is right now and see if he would want to come back and re-assert some value to go into a much better FA market next year- and have him be the veteran guy and add some depth. I highly doubt it would happen but it would be interesting.

I saw the Tigers signed Grossman to a decent deal. He is a guy id have liked to see them have some interest in. the OF is a mess.

Gimenez is going to play SS. Nolan Jones will be up after a couple months. I bet they start McKenzie in the minors and bring him up a little later to keep him strong deeper into the seaosn while he continues to build some strength.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Sexton out now. No point in even watching this team play...they aren’t the same team. They are starting d-league guys and bench warmers

yah.

missing your starting PG Garland, starting SG Sextpm , starting PF Love, backup point guard Exum, Windler (whether he plays the 2, 3 or 4), Porter Jr., Dellavadova, is less than ideal.

all 3 of their point guards are injured. Thats not good for business. lol

but hey- i wont complain about one more losing season.

 

[Shanemansj13]

yah.

missing your starting PG Garland, starting SG Sextpm , starting PF Love, backup point guard Exum, Windler (whether he plays the 2, 3 or 4), Porter Jr., Dellavadova, is less than ideal.

all 3 of their point guards are injured. Thats not good for business. lol

but hey- i wont complain about one more losing season.

They have one healthy guard on the roster...well 2 counting this Lamar Stevens kid...who they picked up for injuries and no other reason

 

[WiggyRuss]

Exactly...if you want year to year income fowning a sports team might not be the best option (OK, maybe NFL, as a license to print money).

And I happen to agree with Scott Boran who said they are not losing money due to Covid, but they are losing some of their profits. Even when the Indians spent in 2017-18 according to Forbes they had operating income of $25-30 mil.

If I can pick the guy who owns a team I cheer for give me obscene will to win first, followed by willingness to let successful FO/coach do their job.

also, if the Mets dont sign Lindor its going to be a shit storm for them.

They probably will re-sign him- i am guessing if they traded for him they mean to--- but its going to be like at least 10 years at least 300 million. Probably more.

With how Lindor has played the last 2 seasons, thats not worth it. Jose Ramirez is right there with Lindor over the last 3 years. He is one year older.

 

[WiggyRuss]

SS is a pretty loaded position

the elites:
Trevor Story
Trea Turner
Tatis Jr.
Lindor
Tim Anderson

the very good
Baez
Bogaerts
Seager
Correa

The Very Interesting up and comers
Bichette (this guy is going to be unreal)
Swanson
Gleybar

the very solid
Semien
Polanco
DeJong
Gregarious

 

[WiggyRuss]

They have one healthy guard on the roster...well 2 counting this Lamar Stevens kid...who they picked up for injuries and no other reason

we are playing a HUGE lineup

you realize JaVale McGee has made more 3's so far this season than in the rest of his career combined? lol. wtf. I bet you he gets dealt at some point.

 

[bksballer89]

 

[flyerhawk]

Announcers are shocked, SHOCKED, at the low energy of the Sixers tonight. And they just ignore that it is the road game on the end of a back to back.

 

[Shanemansj13]

We all knew this was coming eventually...wonder went Watt leaves too

 

[dtgold88]

yah....Indians have won the most games in the AL over the last 8 seasons. They will figure it out- but it does suck to see Lindor go. The payroll is a joke right now.

As you said- their history on the deals they have made is out of this world though.

-Going way back- Bartolo Colon for Sizemore, Phillips and Cliff Lee is one of the most one-sided trades in MLB history. Sizemore was on a HOF track before getting hurt. Phillips is a fringe HOF'er. Cliff Lee was a top pitcher and CY Young winner. "A+++"

Ben Broussard for Asdrubal Cabrera..."B+"

Ryan Dreese and Einar Diaz for Travis Hafner...."A-"

Chuck Finley (at the end of the line) for Coco Crisp "B"

Eduardo Perez for Shin Soo Choo....."B+"

-Casey Blake for Carlos Santana---...."A-"

More recently:

-4 months of CC Sabathia for 6 years of Michael Brantley (and Matt LaPorta)- "A-"

-1 year of Cliff Lee for 6 years of Carlos Carrasco (and Jason Knapp who got hurt)- "A"

-Vinnie Pestano for Mike Clevinger in 2014...."A"

-One year of Shin Soo Choo for Trevor Bauer 5 years of Trevor Bauer...."A"

-Jake Westbrook for Corey Kluber...."A++"

-1.5 yrs of Bauer for Franmil Reyes, Logan Allen, Scott Moss...."B+ -at least"

-1.5 years of Clevinger (who wont even pitch next year with injuries) for 6 players- including Quintrell, Naylor, and 4 solid prospects (too early to give a definitive grade but this will age very well).

They just drafted Bieber, Plesac and Civale in the same draft.

the more recent drafting- and the player evaluation, trades and player development the Indians do are the reason they have the best record in the AL over the last 8 years.

There is a lot to build on right now too. The rotation is young, cheap and deep. Bieber, Plesac, Civale, McKenzie, Quintrell, Moss, Allen, are all major league level talents. Espino, Hankins, and Cantillo are years away but highly regarded and are going through the best developmental staff in baseball for pitchers.

Nolan Jones is their best prospect, has the best eye in the minors and is going to rake.


It wouldnt even surprise me if they contended for a playoff spot this year despite all the upheaval. I definitely dont expect them to be down long.

They have arguably the best front office in baseball- even if they do have a cheap skate sonva bitch owner. At least he hires the right peoples and lets them do their jobs.

Last part makes it most frustrating. wasting arguably best FO and manager in the game (though manager means a lot less). Give me the guy who has an obscene will to win and will spend whatever it takes over nice guy, cheap and stable.

 

[dtgold88]

not that i see them doing it- but id be interested to see what Kluber's price is right now and see if he would want to come back and re-assert some value to go into a much better FA market next year- and have him be the veteran guy and add some depth. I highly doubt it would happen but it would be interesting.

I saw the Tigers signed Grossman to a decent deal. He is a guy id have liked to see them have some interest in. the OF is a mess.

Gimenez is going to play SS. Nolan Jones will be up after a couple months. I bet they start McKenzie in the minors and bring him up a little later to keep him strong deeper into the seaosn while he continues to build some strength.

If they are willing to spend what they saved on Lindor and Carrasco on actual ML OFers then not a bad deal at all...assuming 1 or more of those guys pans out. Need one of them to play SS/2B and find another Hernandez type.

 

[dtgold88]

yah.

missing your starting PG Garland, starting SG Sextpm , starting PF Love, backup point guard Exum, Windler (whether he plays the 2, 3 or 4), Porter Jr., Dellavadova, is less than ideal.

all 3 of their point guards are injured. Thats not good for business. lol

but hey- i wont complain about one more losing season.

Okoro playing made it worth watching....can see why Nance raves about this kid.

 

[dtgold88]

also, if the Mets dont sign Lindor its going to be a shit storm for them.

They probably will re-sign him- i am guessing if they traded for him they mean to--- but its going to be like at least 10 years at least 300 million. Probably more.

With how Lindor has played the last 2 seasons, thats not worth it. Jose Ramirez is right there with Lindor over the last 3 years. He is one year older.

Don't really care how this works out for the Mets. As mentioned, also don't mind they dealt Lindor. No disagreement in a market like ours not wise to sign players to megadeals.

But no excuse not to at least spend league average to maybe go all out while they had Lindor and now when they still have one of the top starting pitching staffs in baseball.

They could have resigned Brantley and added Ozuna to short deals to play LF/RF and still been $10 mil less than their payroll was in 2017-18. If you want yearly profits, better ways to do it than buy a major league baseball team.

 

[CitySushi]

Have you seen Cobra Kai? My son and I just binge watched Season 3. We didn't intend to. We started watching it and the next thing we knew, we had finished it. lol

I think I'm going to start it after I watch Community. I started Community again last night. I remember watching the first two seasons on TV when it was on air and loved it then, but I don't know why I stopped watching. So I'm starting fresh on that but will be watching Cobra Kai soon after.

 

[CitySushi]

the guy that did Queen's Gambit also did a limited series on Netflix called "Godless". Its just 7 episodes. Its a western. Its really well done as you could expect from the guy that did Queen's Gambit. A "deeper cut" on Netflix but i just watched it and liked it

Honestly--- you would be surprised but The Crown is absolutely excellent. Tons of interesting stuff and history and the acting and production are top notch. i didnt expect to like it nearly as much as I did. Its definitely worth a watch.

Do you have anything else?

HBO Max? tons of stuff

Amazon Prime?--- Jack Ryan was pretty good--- not great...pretty procedural but entertaining. It has Justified on it--- which is an absolutely great show- a little older now but its pretty light and very enjoyable if you arent looking to get too serious- a lot of funny moments too. The Americans is also on there- a little bit of an older show now but excellent.

Hulu?---- Handmaids Tale is depressing as hell but excellent

the next show i want to watch is Yellowstone. I have heard great things but its only on Peacock-- which is bullshit. Might just have to buy it on Prime.

Disney Plus? lol. My wife "suggested" I cut down some of our spending on the cable bill, thus right now we only have Showtime(free with our cable subscription), Netflix, HBO Max and Disney+. Oh and ESPN+ obviously. But I'll probably be cancelling HBO max soon. We only got it so my wife could watch The Undoing and I could watch WW84 (which was dogshit).

I've heard mixed reviews about the Crown. Some people loved it, while others gave it a shot for a few episodes and just couldn't do it. The Crown is probably a bit lower on my list.