NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[Wamu]

do you see the same comments I do, @Shanemansj13 , @WiggyRuss , @Wamu ? Have to say I do not get the Browns' fans I so often see in Cleveland sports forums. I can certainly understand opposing fans not liking Baker, and hell, even our fans not caring for his personality. But to constantly cry about him and look for reasons to diminish a 7-3 start for a team who won 7 games in their last 48 prior to this year?

The "we cannot beat good teams" is absurd, as no one has beaten more than 2 good teams, and most good teams have lost to a bad team (the Browns as of now have not). Calling Baker a game manager is also absurd. When he struggled this year it was because he is not a game manager. He often took chances that did not need to be taken and threw costly picks. Now it is true, when it is effective Stefanski's offense might be better off with a QB who could manage a game. The hope is they build a lead by running the ball and/or can run out the clock with their elite RBs. Baker has been better playing his part and not throwing costly picks (none for a month, I believe...never mind the awful weather he's played in). They often failed in the past when our dunderhead coach forgot he had 1-2 elite RBs and even in bad weather had Baker throw 30-40 times. So nice to finally have an adult in charge.

Can Baker be elite? Guess is still no. But I still think it's possible he can be a top 10 QB in Stefanski's system. Next year will be his first since last 2 in Oklahoma he had same offense 2 years in a row.

Bashing the Browns is commonplace on this site. Been going on since I got here. And while most of it is deserved this year seems to be different. Now they can't lay egg and lose to a terrible Jags team on Sunday. But while trashing Mayfield (something I never pass up) has been easy after last season he's not the same turnover prone QB he was when he was last or near the bottom in TD to int ratio & rating.

You asked if he can be elite? He hasn't proven it yet in my opinion. One thing I can't hold against him is the number of head coaches and systems he's gone through already. That shit's gotta stop. Something like that isn't good for any QB, no matter what his name is.

 

[dtgold88]

Bashing the Browns is commonplace on this site. Been going on since I got here. And while most of it is deserved this year seems to be different. Now they can't lay egg and lose to a terrible Jags team on Sunday. But while trashing Mayfield (something I never pass up) has been easy after last season he's not the same turnover prone QB he was when he was last or near the bottom in TD to int ratio & rating.

You asked if he can be elite? He hasn't proven it yet in my opinion. One thing I can't hold against him is the number of head coaches and systems he's gone through already. That shit's gotta stop. Something like that isn't good for any QB, no matter what his name is.

Part of the hatred is all the damn commercials he has. Enough already though!

No disagreement. I get the team and Baker being ripped in places like this one. But our own fans? Going out of their way to make "excuses" for why we won? Don't get it.

and some of the reasons are beyond absurd. Heard a guy today say Minshew better because he has a better completion %. Never mind he has 5 more yards and 15 more passes, so he dinks/dunks his way to a better %....which also shows Baker not a game manager.

That's not to say crazy to say Minshew isn't or wont be better....but that logic makes no sense. It's like our fans would rather we fall behind so the QB can put up fantasy stats in a futile comeback attempt and lose? And I have no doubt his critics would still blame Baker if he balled out and we lost 51-45, saying winning all that matters.

 

[Wamu]

No disagreement. I get the team and Baker being ripped in places like this one. But our own fans? Going out of their way to make "excuses" for why we won? Don't get it.

and some of the reasons are beyond absurd. Heard a guy today say Minshew better because he has a better completion %. Never mind he has 5 more yards and 15 more passes, so he dinks/dunks his way to a better %....which also shows Baker not a game manager.

That's not to say crazy to say Minshew isn't or wont be better....but that logic makes no sense. It's like our fans would rather we fall behind so the QB can put up fantasy stats in a futile comeback attempt and lose? And I have no doubt his critics would still blame Baker if he balled out and we lost 51-45, saying winning all that matters.

Mayfield's arrogant and cocky. His play on the field has been suspect at times. He said he didn't need to work with a QB coach even though he was near the bottom in those categories I mentioned. I think it comes down to even some Browns fans don't care for his attitude.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Agree with both you guys. Baker is doing what he is asked to do and taking care of the ball. Everyone talking about all the weapons the Browns have...RB’s no dispute. WR’s, they have no deep threat know and no depth. But I love what Stefanski has done. The goal is the playoffs anything more and I will be very pleased.

Can’t trash a team 7-3 lolzzz. Garrett out another game, Ward will now be out a couple games...will challenge this defense thah has stepped up the last couple games.

 

[dtgold88]

Agree with both you guys. Baker is doing what he is asked to do and taking care of the ball. Everyone talking about all the weapons the Browns have...RB’s no dispute. WR’s, they have no deep threat know and no depth. But I love what Stefanski has done. The goal is the playoffs anything more and I will be very pleased.

Can’t trash a team 7-3 lolzzz. Garrett out another game, Ward will now be out a couple games...will challenge this defense thah has stepped up the last couple games.

You brought up another absurd comment we hear a lot, shane...the weapons. as you said, sure, they have stud RBs, but there are a number of teams we've played who can match our WRs/TEs, especially with OBJ out. I'd say more can than cannot.

Cannot look past the Jags, especially with the guys out you mentioned. Easily our 2 best defensive players. Isn't to say we should not win, but we don't make anything easy.

 

[dtgold88]

Mayfield's arrogant and cocky. His play on the field has been suspect at times. He said he didn't need to work with a QB coach even though he was near the bottom in those categories I mentioned. I think it comes down to even some Browns fans don't care for his attitude.

I realize you aren't here so don't hear him as much, but he has not been nearly as bad with comments this year. seems like he's growing up. and I definitely thought he was arrogant/cocky until this season.

He did work with a QB coach, FYI...the one who was hired to help him (Van Pelt). Guessing he's the one the team prefer he work with.

 

[tlance]

do you see the same comments I do, @Shanemansj13 , @WiggyRuss , @Wamu ? Have to say I do not get the Browns' fans I so often see in Cleveland sports forums. I can certainly understand opposing fans not liking Baker, and hell, even our fans not caring for his personality. But to constantly cry about him and look for reasons to diminish a 7-3 start for a team who won 7 games in their last 48 prior to this year?

The "we cannot beat good teams" is absurd, as no one has beaten more than 2 good teams, and most good teams have lost to a bad team (the Browns as of now have not). Calling Baker a game manager is also absurd. When he struggled this year it was because he is not a game manager. He often took chances that did not need to be taken and threw costly picks. Now it is true, when it is effective Stefanski's offense might be better off with a QB who could manage a game. The hope is they build a lead by running the ball and/or can run out the clock with their elite RBs. Baker has been better playing his part and not throwing costly picks (none for a month, I believe...never mind the awful weather he's played in). They often failed in the past when our dunderhead coach forgot he had 1-2 elite RBs and even in bad weather had Baker throw 30-40 times. So nice to finally have an adult in charge.

Can Baker be elite? Guess is still no. But I still think it's possible he can be a top 10 QB in Stefanski's system. Next year will be his first since last 2 in Oklahoma he had same offense 2 years in a row.

and, yes, also still possible he ends up not being the guy.

It is not absurd at all to call Baker a game manager, because that is how Cleveland has used him this year.

They are either last or second to last in pass % on neutral downs. That is game manager territory.

Maybe he is better than that, maybe he isn’t. But that is how the Browns coaching staff appears to view him.

That said, it is working.

 

[Black Adam]

Ah, seeing the Cowboys get balled up every Thanksgiving should be a recurring theme...

Congrats, Football Team...

 

[Shanemansj13]

You brought up another absurd comment we hear a lot, shane...the weapons. as you said, sure, they have stud RBs, but there are a number of teams we've played who can match our WRs/TEs, especially with OBJ out. I'd say more can than cannot.

Cannot look past the Jags, especially with the guys out you mentioned. Easily our 2 best defensive players. Isn't to say we should not win, but we don't make anything easy.

Yep Natson and OBJ were the two deep weapons like all this talk they have the best weapons in the league not true. It’s Landry and a bunch of guys. Higgins is a nice weapon and TE’s are ok but still a very young team.
I agree can’t take the Jags likely even though I heard they have a couple key defensive players out. Stick to the gameplan and wear the defensive down...for once there should be better weather, at least hoping.

 

[tlance]

Ah, seeing the Cowboys get balled up every Thanksgiving should be a recurring theme...

Congrats, Football Team...

Alex Smith not anywhere close to what he once was, but he has brought some stability to the QB position that hasn’t been there since he got hurt.

Good to see him playing again.

 

[trojanfan12]

do you see the same comments I do, @Shanemansj13 , @WiggyRuss , @Wamu ? Have to say I do not get the Browns' fans I so often see in Cleveland sports forums. I can certainly understand opposing fans not liking Baker, and hell, even our fans not caring for his personality. But to constantly cry about him and look for reasons to diminish a 7-3 start for a team who won 7 games in their last 48 prior to this year?

The "we cannot beat good teams" is absurd, as no one has beaten more than 2 good teams, and most good teams have lost to a bad team (the Browns as of now have not). Calling Baker a game manager is also absurd. When he struggled this year it was because he is not a game manager. He often took chances that did not need to be taken and threw costly picks. Now it is true, when it is effective Stefanski's offense might be better off with a QB who could manage a game. The hope is they build a lead by running the ball and/or can run out the clock with their elite RBs. Baker has been better playing his part and not throwing costly picks (none for a month, I believe...never mind the awful weather he's played in). They often failed in the past when our dunderhead coach forgot he had 1-2 elite RBs and even in bad weather had Baker throw 30-40 times. So nice to finally have an adult in charge.

Can Baker be elite? Guess is still no. But I still think it's possible he can be a top 10 QB in Stefanski's system. Next year will be his first since last 2 in Oklahoma he had same offense 2 years in a row.

and, yes, also still possible he ends up not being the guy.

Imo, Baker is a good qb, but he's not elite. Which is fine, most quarterbacks are not elite and still win plenty of games. Like most NFL starting qb's, if you put some talent around him and give him a good coach...he's going to win a lot of games and could even win Super Bowls.

He's just not going to be one of those guys who makes the other players better. I do find it interesting to note that the Browns are 7-3 in a season where they have collectively, including Baker, just stfu and played football.

 

[trojanfan12]

You brought up another absurd comment we hear a lot, shane...the weapons. as you said, sure, they have stud RBs, but there are a number of teams we've played who can match our WRs/TEs, especially with OBJ out. I'd say more can than cannot.

A running game is still huge in the NFL. If you have a good running game, average receivers put up better numbers because teams have to play the run first.

Heck, the Seahawks have an elite qb and they started featuring the run more because teams caught up to their "let Russ cook" offense and it cost them a couple of games.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ah, seeing the Cowboys get balled up every Thanksgiving should be a recurring theme...

Congrats, Football Team...

lol @Washington being 4-7 and in first place in the NFC East.

 

[Wamu]

I realize you aren't here so don't hear him as much, but he has not been nearly as bad with comments this year. seems like he's growing up. and I definitely thought he was arrogant/cocky until this season.

He did work with a QB coach, FYI...the one who was hired to help him (Van Pelt). Guessing he's the one the team prefer he work with.

Well it's good he's not being as foolish as he has been in the past. Just would like him to be a bit more humble. But as far as Browns fans turning on him back home. Gotta remember all fanbases have their share of idiot fans. Some are probably (and foolishly) mad at him for planting the OK flag in the Block O at The Shoe. Hell I know people back home that are still pissed at Elway for the Drive. Now what kinda stupid crap is that?

With three starters out on the defensive side I hope the team doesn't have a letdown in Jacksonville. A loss to the lowly Jags would just be awful.

 

[dtgold88]

It is not absurd at all to call Baker a game manager, because that is how Cleveland has used him this year.

They are either last or second to last in pass % on neutral downs. That is game manager territory.

Maybe he is better than that, maybe he isn’t. But that is how the Browns coaching staff appears to view him.

That said, it is working.

To say Stefanski wants a game manager for his offense and when things are working that is best, is absolutely fair. To try and rip Baker (as some have, not necessarily you) for playing how he's asked is absurd. and calling him one after the last game seems odd 9as some did). a number of downfield passes and 9.3 yards/pass? I mean, should they throw more with elite RBs, a lead in bad weather?

If Baker fails on this team (as many say he will) it will be because he is NOT a game manager.

FYI, if the Browns lost 51-45 with baker balling out, his critics would then say, "but he didn't win". Kid got ripped earlier in wins because while nursing a lead he did what a game manager does not do and tried to do to much...ending in INTs.

 

[Wamu]

Imo, Baker is a good qb, but he's not elite. Which is fine, most quarterbacks are not elite and still win plenty of games. Like most NFL starting qb's, if you put some talent around him and give him a good coach...he's going to win a lot of games and could even win Super Bowls.

He's just not going to be one of those guys who makes the other players better. I do find it interesting to note that the Browns are 7-3 in a season where they have collectively, including Baker, just stfu and played football.

Very few QB's are truly elite. Consistent good play is what I'd like outta Mayfield. As far as the change from last season. I think it comes down to a couple of things.

-Freddie had no business being a head coach
-I don't think he had the respect of the vets in the lockerroom
-the team was incredibly undisciplined (being near the top in penalities & penalty yards is proof of that)

What a difference a legit coach makes. Looks like Stephanski was the right pick. There's no way the Browns are 7-3 if Freddie is sill around.

 

[dtgold88]

Imo, Baker is a good qb, but he's not elite. Which is fine, most quarterbacks are not elite and still win plenty of games. Like most NFL starting qb's, if you put some talent around him and give him a good coach...he's going to win a lot of games and could even win Super Bowls.

He's just not going to be one of those guys who makes the other players better. I do find it interesting to note that the Browns are 7-3 in a season where they have collectively, including Baker, just stfu and played football.

Mostly agree, though he did have Perriman playing pretty well here and got him another contract. and, yes, he played well th4e following year in TB then fell off map with injuries. Also has gotten more out of 6th rounder Higgins and Khaderal Hodge (yes, who?) than I'd have guessed. won a game against BMore as a rookie to a WR I don't even recall. Ratley, maybe? I think baker will either be good or very good. Never top 5.

Right now we have a #1 WR who is far better served as a #2 and Higgins, Hodge and Peoples-Jones. so many teams have more. It's like once the narrative is written about you it never changes with some. Look at LJ. Had his MVP season (deserved IMO) and are many ripping him? and his team has a worse record and he has the luxury of being carried by an elite or near elite defense.

Totally agree with your last comment...and comes down to the HC. Freddie could not control them.

 

[dtgold88]

A running game is still huge in the NFL. If you have a good running game, average receivers put up better numbers because teams have to play the run first.

Heck, the Seahawks have an elite qb and they started featuring the run more because teams caught up to their "let Russ cook" offense and it cost them a couple of games.

Very true...and luckily we have a coach who does not abandon the run the first sign of trouble. was pretty bad in first half against Philly for sure and I believe Houston, as well. Baker still threw the ball as well as could be expected in the weather. Ironically, I thought his best game of the last 3 was the loss to LV. Running game was awful. weather terrible, as well. But he threw well.......just got no help from his WRs/RBs/TEs who couldn't catch and had a costly fumble.

 

[dtgold88]

Well it's good he's not being as foolish as he has been in the past. Just would like him to be a bit more humble. But as far as Browns fans turning on him back home. Gotta remember all fanbases have their share of idiot fans. Some are probably (and foolishly) mad at him for planting the OK flag in the Block O at The Shoe. Hell I know people back home that are still pissed at Elway for the Drive. Now what kinda stupid crap is that?

With three starters out on the defensive side I hope the team doesn't have a letdown in Jacksonville. A loss to the lowly Jags would just be awful.

Oh, no doubt...as mentioned e few posts ago a guy gets a narrative on him and nothing will change it. For some I think Baker would need to play very well for a month beating elite teams and it MIGHT do it. In truth, I think most hated the pick the second it was made and would rather be right and he fail than their team to well. and, yes, for some fans I'm sure the flag was why they didn't want him. Odd, to say the least.

Looking at schedules next couple weeks of the other potential WCs this is a near must win (with solid opponents coming up for us). and, yes, despite all the guys out would be a bad loss. almost would prefer the rookie play for them and not Glennon.

 

[dtgold88]

Very few QB's are truly elite. Consistent good play is what I'd like outta Mayfield. As far as the change from last season. I think it comes down to a couple of things.

-Freddie had no business being a head coach
-I don't think he had the respect of the vets in the lockerroom
-the team was incredibly undisciplined (being near the top in penalities & penalty yards is proof of that)

What a difference a legit coach makes. Looks like Stephanski was the right pick. There's no way the Browns are 7-3 if Freddie is sill around.

Just so great having an adult in charge. Maybe you can think of something, but I really cannot think of any "WTF moments" he has had which Freddie had nearly every game.

So many keep crying we only beat bad teams this year, but guess what....Last year with as much talent we lost to Brandon allen making first start ever for Denver. The Duck for Pittsburgh. a 1-15 bengals team. a 5-10-1 AZ team. win 3-4 of those and they have 9-10 wins.

Of course, do that and Dorsey/Freddie still here so I guess it worked out for the best.