NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[Wamu]

No surprise there

Talking about bullshit remember when you said Jamal Murray should only be a teams third option?

 

[trojanfan12]

I always get a great laugh outta anyone that tries to comapre Mayfield to the top QB's in the league. Mayfield ain't Wilson. He's of of the best QB's in the league. And Mayfield isn't anywhere near his level.

Mayfield was hyped like he was going to be one of the best QB's in the league when he was drafted. He was the #1 overall pick in the draft ffs.

And him not being an elite level QB is what I've said all along. I've said that he's a starting quality QB that a team can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with if he gets the right weapons around him and is handled the right way. You got all offended and now have basically said the exact same thing I've been saying all along.

Browns fans certainly are a special lot. lol

 

[Wamu]

Disagreeing is fine.

But that was some made up bullshit that you posted.

It's not made up bullshit when you wanna blame Mayfield for everything and pretend this injuries had nothing to do with his performance. And stop trying to compare him to one of the best QB's in the league.

 

[trojanfan12]

It's not made up bullshit when you wanna blame Mayfield for everything and pretend this injuries had nothing to do with his performance. And stop trying to compare him to one of the best QB's in the league.

Again, you need to read what I actually said instead of making shit up. You literally just agreed with what I said.

 

[Wamu]

Mayfield was hyped like he was going to be one of the best QB's in the league when he was drafted. He was the #1 overall pick in the draft ffs.

And him not being an elite level QB is what I've said all along. I've said that he's a starting quality QB that a team can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with if he gets the right weapons around him and is handled the right way. You got all offended and now have basically said the exact same thing I've been saying all along.

Browns fans certainly are a special lot. lol

Who's offended though? Typical lame nonsense. I don't agree with what you're saying. And all you can say is I'm offended. It's odd how often some people gotta play the your offended card whenever someone disagrees.

 

[bksballer89]

It's not made up bullshit when you wanna blame Mayfield for everything and pretend this injuries had nothing to do with his performance. And stop trying to compare him to one of the best QB's in the league.

I don't care about injuries. A decent QB should find a way to get at minimum 17 points on the board even without weapons. For the 3rd time this season, the browns were held to 6 or 7 points.

 

[trojanfan12]

Who's offended though? Typical lame nonsense. I don't agree with what you're saying. And all you can say is I'm offended. It's odd how often some people gotta play the your offended card whenever someone disagrees.

You literally agreed with what I said:

I always get a great laugh outta anyone that tries to compare Mayfield to the top QB's in the league. Mayfield ain't Wilson. He's of of the best QB's in the league. And Mayfield isn't anywhere near his level.

What I said was Baker isn't that guy, but he was hyped as "that guy". The comparison to Wilson is to illustrate the difference between what he was hyped as and what he has been since he's been in the NFL. I even said that the Browns can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with him as QB.

But somehow, you have that twisted as me "not liking him" and "blaming everything on him".

And yes, when you make shit up to respond to a something you don't agree with (and then turn around and say essentially the same thing) you come off as offended.

 

[dtgold88]

This, imo, is the problem. I don't recall an asterisk necessarily being a negative thing until Lebron went to Miami and people started wanting to put an asterisk on those titles because he "stacked the team". They were always more neutral.

To me, an asterisk is nothing more than a way to point out that there was something different about that season. Maybe the 9 game World Series that MLB used to have that is now 7, interrupted by war, strike/lockout shortened seasons and currently, the pandemic. Things like that.

The point, imo, isn't to state whether the path to a title was made easier or more difficult, it's just to show that it was not a "normal" season. It's why you wouldn't attach an asterisk to, for example, the Raptors title because the Warriors lost their 3 best players to injury. Injuries are a "normal" part of the game. Losing that many top players to injury may not be "normal", but injuries are and it certainly wasn't the only title effected by them.

So, imo, attaching an asterisk to titles won this year, would be appropriate to point out the circumstances under which the games were played and the titles won. But as far as being used to "lessen" the accomplishment...that's just stupid. But, there are a lot of stupid people who will do just that.

So, in short, I guess that asterisks are just another thing that we can blame Lebron for. lol

Seems like the most famous (or infamous) asterisk was used to lessen Maris' HR record because it was in more games than the babe needed. and pretty sure we agree Riley was foolish in the way he wanted to use it.

cannot say I recall it being used when Lebron won his first title, but don't doubt it would be by his critics (not by Riley, of course).

 

[dtgold88]

Exactly.

Which is the exact point I was trying to make.

OK...and the one I tried to make was I thought it was absurd to think more reason to use one for LAD than Lakers. and I was able to explain why with logic, facts and reason. You disagree? Cool.

 

[dtgold88]

BS.

Typical you claiming someone else is being “irrational” because you either:

1) aren’t bright enough to follow a pretty simple point of logic
2) just strive to create drama out of nothing

My guess is a little of both.

3) dared to call you out for your nuttiness.

In fact, there is no denying 1 and 2 was correct by me. You did, in fact, say you disagreed with Riley about what he said...then went on to defend and make excuses for him.

 

[dtgold88]

These are all good points and certainly true. But, imo, that's part of the problem here. It seems that it's never Baker just played bad. There's always a laundry list of excuses to explain away why he played bad. Why it's not his fault.

Additionally, he's been in the league long enough, has enough weapons and has enough starts under his belt that he should be showing signs of being able to overcome those kinds of things if he's truly worthy of his draft status.

I'm not saying he's a bad quarterback, he's not. I think he's a starting quality QB, but he's not a guy who's really going to elevate other players like an elite quarterback.

I think that the Browns could win a lot of games and maybe even a Super Bowl with him as QB. Heck, there are worse QB's than Baker who have Super Bowl rings. Guys who's biggest contributions were that they stayed in their lane and just didn't screw things up. If the Browns do start having playoff success I don't think it will be because Baker led them to it.

It won't be as bad as a guy like Dilfer...but it won't be as good as a Brady, Wilson, etc. either.

People who are not fanboys nor critics (sadly most are one or the other) are more than willing to point out the good or bad in baker. He was beyond bad against Pittsburgh and Bmore. was he the reason they lost? One of them, sure (but D not blameless).

But anyone who watched that game could not blame him for the loss. For what? Did they expect a Bugs Bunny/Popeye game where he threw the ball, caught it and made tackles on defense? Guy had a very similar game to the QB who did win as far as just the numbers. Difference was probably Landry TD catch was overturned Renfro's was not (FYI, thought Landry decision was correct. Not sure about Renfro). I can recall 1 drop by Carr WRs/TEs/RBs. Baker's guys had 4-5.

Pretty much every drive ended with dropped pass in EZ, dropped pass in their territory on 3rd down, fumble in their territory on 3rd down (not by Baker) or missed FG.

 

[dtgold88]

My bad. I forgot any legit injuries that happen to the Browns aren't a valid excuse for anything. You probably blame him for the Raiders having the ball for more than 37 minutes.

It's always easy to trash a player you don't like. In this case while Mayfield had a bad game not everything was his fault in that loss. Shit I can't believe I'm defending him. Not the way I expected to start things. Like I've said before, wasn't happy my team drafted that jackass in the first place.

"these are all good pints and certainly true. But IMO that's part of the problem here"

Damn right the injuries were part of the problem. I don't care what QB is being talked about. Take away his # 1 rb, wr, & te and there will be some problems. Or do you disagree that a QB missing his main weapons is only an issue for the Browns and wouldn't be an issue for any other team?

while you could certainly say he did against Bmore, Pittsburgh and 2nd half against Indy I don't even see how one could say he had a bad game. Had them moving the ball on every possession until they stopped WR/TE/RB stopped themselves. was he perfect? Nope...I do recall he did have one bad pass that could have been an INT.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, I'm starting to see him as the Lonzo Ball of the NFL. Lonzo is a starting quality point guard and a team can have a lot of success with him as their starting PG.

But he'll never be the guy who leads the team to that success as you would expect him to be given his draft status and the hype that he came into the league with.

Never? He did have 21 straight completions and 4 TDs in a half when he scored a TD on every possession.

was it Cinci? Yep....but Tennessee just lost to them, and other than the Browns no one else had hit 35 on them (Browns did it twice).

None of this is to say he's elite. at this point I lean to him being about how you see him. Perhaps he exceeds my expectations after more time in this offense.

 

[dtgold88]

I've seen Russell Wilson take the Seahawks to the playoffs with practically no weapons.

This season, with some weapons, he has them at 6-1 despite having one of the worst defenses in the league.

So yes, a QB can overcome those things if he's good enough. So far, Baker hasn't been.

I mean, I agree with you here...but they are 5-3 which is probably better than most had them. Especially if you were told Chubb would be out this long.

 

[dtgold88]

I always get a great laugh outta anyone that tries to compare Mayfield to the top QB's in the league. Mayfield ain't Wilson. He's of of the best QB's in the league. And Mayfield isn't anywhere near his level.

well, to be fair, you did say no other QB can succeed without weapons, didn't you? wilson is a QB and has had tremendous success without stud WRs (though he has 1 who is elite this year IMO).

 

[dtgold88]

I don't care about injuries. A decent QB should find a way to get at minimum 17 points on the board even without weapons. For the 3rd time this season, the browns were held to 6 or 7 points.

and the first 2 were definitely on him. But it's hard to put up points when the other team keeps the ball away from you and your WR/TE/RBs keep dropping the ball in the EZ, on 3rd down or fumbling well into opponents' territory.

 

[dtgold88]

You literally agreed with what I said:


What I said was Baker isn't that guy, but he was hyped as "that guy". The comparison to Wilson is to illustrate the difference between what he was hyped as and what he has been since he's been in the NFL. I even said that the Browns can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with him as QB.

But somehow, you have that twisted as me "not liking him" and "blaming everything on him".

And yes, when you make shit up to respond to a something you don't agree with (and then turn around and say essentially the same thing) you come off as offended.

Mostly agree with what you are saying, but while some hyped him there were definitely a good number that did not. Hell, there are a ton of Browns fans like wamu who didn't like him the second he was picked and wanted Darnold.

Whenever he plays well they make "excuses" too, just the other way. Only played well because of opponent, for instance. But these same people wont allow the excuse of playing poorly when defense he faces is elite (no, not talking about this past game).

 

[trojanfan12]

Never? He did have 21 straight completions and 4 TDs in a half when he scored a TD on every possession.

And?

Again, when you're having to essentially cherry pick games and halves here and there rather than be able to point to consistent high level play...you're kind of making my point for me.

I mean, Lonzo Ball has had games here and there where he has played very close to the hype he had coming in. But those haven't been anywhere enough to show that he can do it consistently enough to ever be seen as anything more than a starting quality PG.

 

[dtgold88]

Mayfield was hyped like he was going to be one of the best QB's in the league when he was drafted. He was the #1 overall pick in the draft ffs.

And him not being an elite level QB is what I've said all along. I've said that he's a starting quality QB that a team can win a lot of games and even a Super Bowl with if he gets the right weapons around him and is handled the right way. You got all offended and now have basically said the exact same thing I've been saying all along.

Browns fans certainly are a special lot. lol

You clearly don't know a lot of Browns' fans as there is a large amount who do not like Baker and never did.

 

[trojanfan12]

You clearly don't know a lot of Browns' fans as there is a large amount who do not like Baker and never did.

Well, the ones here sure seem to like him. At least they defend him like they do. lol