Series Thread: NBA Finals: Los Angeles Lakers vs. Miami Heat

[tlance]

Im talking about the theatrical, totally non contact flops.
Comparing apples to oranges.

They are all related. A flop is a flop. It is basically drawing attention to contact to get the ref to blow the whistle.

They are all theatrical. And the best athletes also have to be good actors. Both to win calls from refs and also to misdirect their opponent.

Non contact flops are very rare. I think what you are talking about are the very light contact ones like when Duncan Robinson goes down in a heap after he is lightly touched.

Part of the game. Refs just have to make the right calls. And despite popular opinion on here, most of the time they do.

 

[Heatles84]

I think I speak for us all when I say I'm glad we ended up having the series we originally thought we would have before the injuries sustained in game 1.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't know if anyone else saw it or if it's already been discussed (not posting during games causes me to miss stuff lol). But on the pre-game show yesterday, there was a great quote re: the GOAT debate.

I forget who it was that said it and don't have the exact quote, but basically he said, I'm checking out of this GOAT debate and I'm just going to appreciate the art that I'm seeing while I'm seeing it.

He went on to say how MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Kobe, etc. are all different players and he's just going to appreciate the art they bring/brought to the game.

I thought that was a great way to look at it.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

They are all related. A flop is a flop. It is basically drawing attention to contact to get the ref to blow the whistle.

They are all theatrical. And the best athletes also have to be good actors. Both to win calls from refs and also to misdirect their opponent.

Non contact flops are very rare. I think what you are talking about are the very light contact ones like when Duncan Robinson goes down in a heap after he is lightly touched.

Part of the game. Refs just have to make the right calls. And despite popular opinion on here, most of the time they do.

We are talking about the only professional sport where players can be eliminated from a game, or have their minutes on the court severely limited because of the result of bad foul call(s).
OBVIOUS flops should be penalized.
Yes, you can clearly see them when watching a replay for 5 seconds. Duncan was called for a foul when he wasn't even close to touching KCP. The play you are talking about is totally the the opposite. There was contact and refs call that a foul almost all of the time.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I don't know if anyone else saw it or if it's already been discussed (not posting during games causes me to miss stuff lol). But on the pre-game show yesterday, there was a great quote re: the GOAT debate.

I forget who it was that said it and don't have the exact quote, but basically he said, I'm checking out of this GOAT debate and I'm just going to appreciate the art that I'm seeing while I'm seeing it.

He went on to say how MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Kobe, etc. are all different players and he's just going to appreciate the art they bring/brought to the game.

I thought that was a great way to look at it.

People can, should, and will always make the same arguments for Jordan.
Regardless, LeBron has had and is still having a career that should and will keep any conversation close.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think I speak for us all when I say I'm glad we ended up having the series we originally thought we would have before the injuries sustained in game 1.

The Heat missed a ton of pretty 'easy' shots last night while the Lakers (especially LeBron) were making tough ones.
I like that Spoelstra stuck with Nunn vs defaulting back to his 'normal' rotation.
When a loss ends your season, you need to stick with what is working at the moment.

 

[tlance]

I don't know if anyone else saw it or if it's already been discussed (not posting during games causes me to miss stuff lol). But on the pre-game show yesterday, there was a great quote re: the GOAT debate.

I forget who it was that said it and don't have the exact quote, but basically he said, I'm checking out of this GOAT debate and I'm just going to appreciate the art that I'm seeing while I'm seeing it.

He went on to say how MJ, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Kobe, etc. are all different players and he's just going to appreciate the art they bring/brought to the game.

I thought that was a great way to look at it.

That was Jay Williams who said it.

Excellent point.

 

[trojanfan12]

Oh, and lol @Markieff Morris' "lob" to AD.

 

[tlance]

We are talking about the only professional sport where players can be eliminated from a game, or have their minutes on the court severely limited because of the result of bad foul call(s).
OBVIOUS flops should be penalized.
Yes, you can clearly see them when watching a replay for 5 seconds. Duncan was called for a foul when he wasn't even close to touching KCP. The play you are talking about is totally the the opposite. There was contact and refs call that a foul almost all of the time.

There were 2 Duncan flops last night.

1 that was a foul on Kuzma and was called as it should have been. But Duncan definitely flopped.

The other was in the 1st half when he tried to draw a foul on an AD contest of a corner 3 and failed to get back on defense because he tangled himself up with players sitting on the bench.

That was not a foul.

Just make sure you are calling these out both ways, because Duncan flops on 3s fairly often. Only a couple guys do it more regularly.

 

[trojanfan12]

Duncan was called for a foul when he wasn't even close to touching KCP.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, the replay showed that there was contact with KCP's face, but KCP definitely sold that contact for more than it actually was.

 

[trojanfan12]

1 that was a foul on Kuzma and was called as it should have been.

This is where flopping gets interesting and where a case "for" it can be made.

Robinson definitely flopped on that 3 and, "by the letter of the law", it was a foul. But I'm not sure it gets called if Robinson doesn't sell it.

Same with KCP's flop when Robinson grazed his face while KCP was guarding him. It was a foul, but I doubt it gets called if KCP doesn't flop.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

There were 2 Duncan flops last night.

1 that was a foul on Kuzma and was called as it should have been. But Duncan definitely flopped.

The other was in the 1st half when he tried to draw a foul on an AD contest of a corner 3 and failed to get back on defense because he tangled himself up with players sitting on the bench.

That was not a foul.

Just make sure you are calling these out both ways, because Duncan flops on 3s fairly often. Only a couple guys do it more regularly.

I can’t think of any player that gets called for more ticky tack fouls then Duncan.
I won’t apologize for any bad call that goes his way.

Duncan was just an example.

 

[Wamu]

What a damn good game last night. That loss isn't on LeBron or AD, they did what they were supposed to do. If the Lakers supporting cast doesn't step up it's gonna be a problem.

 

[tlance]

I can’t think of any player that gets called for more ticky tack fouls then Duncan.
I won’t apologize for any bad call that goes his way.

Duncan was just an example.

That is fair.

But you are speaking out about flopping and Duncan is pretty egregious with the theatrical minimal contact flops from what I have seen.

And I don’t have a problem with that. Just making sure you know that KCP was not the only theatrical flopper last night.

 

[tlance]

This is where flopping gets interesting and where a case "for" it can be made.

Robinson definitely flopped on that 3 and, "by the letter of the law", it was a foul. But I'm not sure it gets called if Robinson doesn't sell it.

Same with KCP's flop when Robinson grazed his face while KCP was guarding him. It was a foul, but I doubt it gets called if KCP doesn't flop.

Exactly.

Which is why players are coached to embellish.

Have a kid on the team I am coaching now who is a fantastic player. Football/basketball dual sport kid. He is going to an ACC school on a football scholarship and was getting low to mid major looks in basketball too.

I tell you this background because he would drive to the rim, get fouled pretty hard and actually get offensive fouls called against him as often as he he got to the line himself. He was just so damn physically strong that defenders would bounce off of him and refs wouldn’t call it.

We literally sat down with him and showed him clips of guys like Harden, CP3, etc embellishing contact. And it wasn’t until he learned to flop a bit that he actually started getting a few calls to go his way.

Flopping works.

 

[Wamu]

I can’t think of any player that gets called for more ticky tack fouls then Duncan.
I won’t apologize for any bad call that goes his way.

Duncan was just an example.

He's a second year player. You really expect him to get calls? And last night Butler ran over Caruso and Caruso got called for the foul. But I'm sure you didn't have an issue with that.

 

[trojanfan12]

He's a second year player. You really expect him to get calls? And last night Butler ran over Caruso and Caruso got called for the foul. But I'm sure you didn't have an issue with that.

That's what I don't like. A foul is a foul no matter who is committing it. I understand "star calls" have been happening for ever and I've always disliked them.

Although, I do have to admit that I dislike them a little less when they go the Lakers way.

 

[trojanfan12]

Exactly.

Which is why players are coached to embellish.

Have a kid on the team I am coaching now who is a fantastic player. Football/basketball dual sport kid. He is going to an ACC school on a football scholarship and was getting low to mid major looks in basketball too.

I tell you this background because he would drive to the rim, get fouled pretty hard and actually get offensive fouls called against him as often as he he got to the line himself. He was just so damn physically strong that defenders would bounce off of him and refs wouldn’t call it.

We literally sat down with him and showed him clips of guys like Harden, CP3, etc embellishing contact. And it wasn’t until he learned to flop a bit that he actually started getting a few calls to go his way.

Flopping works.

And honestly, I don't mind those that much.

But the guys who flop when they aren't touched needs to be stopped. Some of those that Lebron has done, for example, were just beyond ridiculous.

A good rule change would be that if a call is reviewed and they find that it was a flop where he wasn't touched, that player should be assessed a foul.

 

[Wamu]

That's what I don't like. A foul is a foul no matter who is committing it. I understand "star calls" have been happening for ever and I've always disliked them.

Although, I do have to admit that I dislike them a little less when they go the Lakers way.

You dislike them them a little less when they go the Lakers way? Oddly enough that's how I feel about Celtics calls.

 

[bksballer89]

I can’t think of any player that gets called for more ticky tack fouls then Duncan.
I won’t apologize for any bad call that goes his way.

Duncan was just an example.

Yeah Duncan get the shitty end of the stick often on defense. Refs call him for lots of bs fouls